Zapino performance mods

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ookba
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Re: Zapino performance mods

I'll probably stick with SLA for now. LiFePO4 is just a bit too pricy still. What SLA's do you guys recommend? I was looking at the B&B EVP35-12's. Are there any better out there? Lighter? Good AH? Around $60 each?

HPC Revolution - Insane mode
Vectrix VX-2 #2 - Work in progress
72V 54MPH 2008 Zoomin' Zapino - Sold
48V 40MPH 2011 Vectrix VX-2 flyin' - Sold

Randy W
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Re: Zapino performance mods

Hey Ookba,
Fun to follow your exploits. LiFe-whatever may be the next step, but the sudden "fade to zero" and the expense is not something I look forward-to.
I have just replaced a set of destroyed SLAs in one of our "salvage' Zapinos. I used "Sigmas-Tek" from "ReplaceUPSBatteries.com".
This probably wasn't the best choice. One battery sagged prematurely. The replacement, with a later date code (free replacement with free S & H) was better, but not quite up to the characteristics of the rest. The whole pack sagged early on hard acceleration, but seemed OK for the long-haul. The originals on my 2008 still perform better. There must be others that provide higher initial current. Mountain Chen may have a better idea? So-called "Silicone"??
Any thoughts, anyone?
Fun stuff!
Randy W

Randy W
Santa Rosa, CA
2 ZAP! Zapinos

Randy W
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Re: Zapino performance mods

Deleted. Multiple-post. (Why is this site so pokey?)

Randy W
Santa Rosa, CA
2 ZAP! Zapinos

ookba
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Re: Zapino performance mods

Randy, lol. Need to get a good device to measure current, load, and voltage. What do you recommend? I may put my Universal batts into my spare Zapino and get some fresh ones for my daily rider (blue bike). I saw the EVP35-12's at batterysharks for $55 but with shipping, they end up being $65 each. I read somewhere that they have good max discharge of 15C (5 sec). http://www.batterysharks.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=EVP35-12_B12-35&CartID=1.

HPC Revolution - Insane mode
Vectrix VX-2 #2 - Work in progress
72V 54MPH 2008 Zoomin' Zapino - Sold
48V 40MPH 2011 Vectrix VX-2 flyin' - Sold

LeftieBiker
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Re: Zapino performance mods

AFAIK, the Zapino is basically an XM-3000 made by a different distributor with slightly different parts. I think the motor and controller are 3 phase in a XM-3000 but 6 phase in a Zapino. Other minor differences I think as well. Who's selling it?

I'm selling it, in Upstate NY. It was a good scooter until the controller went, and I treated the batteries right. BTW, in answer to the question about GreenSaver lead-silicone batteries: They seem like good batteries. Their performance is similar to SLA, but they supposedly don't sulphate up if left partially charged. I've never tested that, but the range when the scooter was last used was the same as when it was new. Same with my ZEV with very similar batteries...

Randy W
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Re: Zapino performance mods

Hi Ookba,
I don't have anything very fancy for monitoring; just a DVM, a Dayton (Grainger) auto-battery load tester, a spring-wound (!) stopwatch and a 10-ohm 100-watt resistor (which plugs into the charging port) for lightly and steadily loading the pack. Not to forget, a clipboard and pen. While in motion, the sound, speed and dashboard voltmeter tell me all I need to know. The beauty of the SLA batteries is that you can crawl back home indefinitely. You may want to search this board for BMSs that others are using.
I like what cchris has done with LIFEPO4s on his 2500-watt Elektra, but noticed he has one cell not connected. A spare?
A Zapino with a 72-volt LiFEpO4 pack, with about 1/3 the battery weight would be a dream machine. Might just be a good winter project. Have you looked at Elite Power's pre-assembled 12-volt 40-AH batteries? Do you think they'd fit in place of our SLAs?
Thanks for the Battery Shark tip. Looks like we paid the same amount (Including shipping), but you got more complete, maybe better, specs. The real B&Bs are 38 AH, but they want TWICE as much money! The Greensavers Silicone seem to have disappeared.
Zoom-Zoom!

Randy W
Santa Rosa, CA
2 ZAP! Zapinos

ccriss
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Re: Zapino performance mods

Hi Ookba,
I like what cchris has done with LIFEPO4s on his 2500-watt Elektra, but noticed he has one cell not connected. A spare?

Randy, all the 21cells are connected and working on my "Zapino". Unfortunately I have a BMS which monitor only 16 cells , the other 5 have just a DIY shunt which discharge 2A when the cell is over 3,6V.

Regarding the greensaver, I used them in my old scooter (similar to xm2000W 48V), the Greensaver batteries last around 7.000Km in a year. The battery after 1 year lost the 50% of their capacity.

ookba
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Re: Zapino performance mods

I assume SLAs are good to charge to 14.5V each? My current 4A 72V SLA charger charges to about 82V before it cuts off giving them about 13.6V each. I got a 6A LifePO4 charger that charges to 87V. This will string charge my 6 SLAs to around 14.5V each before it cuts off. Of course I'm going to check their individual voltages first and make sure they're all balanced. What do you guys think? As far as I know, the only difference in LiFePO4 chargers vs. SLA chargers is the cutoff voltage, right?

HPC Revolution - Insane mode
Vectrix VX-2 #2 - Work in progress
72V 54MPH 2008 Zoomin' Zapino - Sold
48V 40MPH 2011 Vectrix VX-2 flyin' - Sold

ccriss
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Re: Zapino performance mods

Find attached picture, you will see Greensaver suggests 14,4V - 15V for cycliing use

ccriss
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Re: Zapino performance mods

Mission accomplished, I've finally added 2 cells to my string of 21 Winston batteries.
Now the nominal voltage is 73,6V!!
The controller as well as the DC/DC works fine, I'm not able to test if the motor get warm because here in Italy is winter and the temperature today is 2°Celsius. The top speed is increased but only 72Kmh on GPS due to the cold, I think in summer I will get more, maybe near 75Kmh.
Thank you, your mod encouraged me to overvolt this scooter.

Below some pictures about it

The 2 cells moved to make space to the new one..

The new one (2 CALB) to be added (red circle)

nerger
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Re: Zapino performance mods

I picked up a Zapino a few months ago, sounds like it was almost the same as yours: 5 years in someone's garage, only 3 miles on it. The batteries weren't dead, though, so it was good to go. Recently, as I was riding it, it suddenly wouldn't go anything but 10 mi/hr -- no more, no less. I looked at the fuses, they looked fine. I'm a web developer and I've dabbled a bit in robotics, but that's really irrelevant and have no idea what to do next. Any help would be appreciated!

ccriss
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ccriss
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Re: Zapino performance mods

For the records, I attached a video which gives an idea of performance can get a Zapin overvolted with 23 LiFepo4 cells.
A video is better than 1000 words :-)
How are the performance of your Zapino?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=0EiJZyjdVAE

MEroller
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Re: Zapino performance mods

My 24 cell 5kW beast used to do real 76km/h...78km/, so your Zapino's motor must be pretty similar to mine. However, my bike was recently shredded by a car that turned into me while I was going 50km/h, so I currently must ride a rented ICE bike again. It's only plus is it goes about 20km/h faster than my electric did...

My rides:
2017 Zero S ZF6.5 11kW, erider Thunder 5kW

Johnny J
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Re: Zapino performance mods

My 24 cell 5kW beast used to do real 76km/h...78km/, so your Zapino's motor must be pretty similar to mine. However, my bike was recently shredded by a car that turned into me while I was going 50km/h, so I currently must ride a rented ICE bike again. It's only plus is it goes about 20km/h faster than my electric did...

Are you OK?

MEroller
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Re: Zapino performance mods
My 24 cell 5kW beast used to do real 76km/h...78km/, so your Zapino's motor must be pretty similar to mine. However, my bike was recently shredded by a car that turned into me while I was going 50km/h, so I currently must ride a rented ICE bike again. It's only plus is it goes about 20km/h faster than my electric did...

Are you OK?

Thanks, yes, OK again. My left foot was badly compressed between my Thunder's center console and the car's bumper, so it swelled all around and during the following weeks successively turned all the colors of the rainbow, plus walking was of course greatly hampered during the first 5 days. But in the mean time the swelling has all but diappeared, and the left foot now works again to 95% of it's normal "spec".
But the repairman and the assessor have still not been able to agree on the amount of damage done to my bike, I do hope they finally DO agree early next week as I need a working electric ride when I start work again the week after... And for that the insurance should have figured out what they owe me :-(

My rides:
2017 Zero S ZF6.5 11kW, erider Thunder 5kW

Johnny J
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Re: Zapino performance mods

OK, good to hear you are healing reasonably well.

veloman
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Re: Zapino performance mods

I pick up a controller/motor system that came from a Zapino. The caps say 100v, so I think running 72v nominal should be fine.

This motor looks a lot like endlessphere user JohnInCR's hubmonster. I'm attempting to replace the system on my wife's EVT168 with this.

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