voltas vs vectrix

I dont understand how you might think that anyone is going to beleive that you are to trust, when it seems, by your comments that you work for EVC or something, you dont sound very convincing. And havent bought my Vectrix yet. (Yes "My" becuase i am already 95% sure i will order mine in January after my buisy December gets over)

Hey, the best is always worth waiting for, it seems that EVC is the clear winner!

Quite unusual to be declared a clear winner without ever stepping foot onto the field, but hey, if you're conviced, that's "clear" enough for me. ;-)

EVC has a very promising goal, and if the Voltas lives up to the hype, it will do well, and I wish them all the best as a company and a product. The Voltas will be Lithium powered, will roll on large wheels, and it's chain drive, while not exactly maintenance free, will afford it the luxury of flexible gearing to suit the range/speed needs of the rider, which will enable it to reach across some of the range issues that potential Vectrix owners might have.

Can we assume that you have already put a deposit down on one so you don't have to wait until 2010 for delivery? Mine is number 1150. What number is yours? Have they given you an approximate ship date for your new bike? Does your rumor source indicate any changes in the two year old target price of approx 9 grand? If you haven't put a deposit down already, you likely won't even have a chance at one until 2010, but I'm sure they greatly appreciate your song and dance support anyway.

Yep,
Vectrix is definitely creating jealousy and everyone wants a bit of the action. Even if we (as fellow owners and supporters) may not always understand the Vectrix corporate strategy, I think we can all agree that Vectrix is by far the most advanced and best built EV scooter out there. As all first generation product it has it's faults and limitations (remember the Prius I) and it's overpriced and thankfully there's always early adopters like us willing to make the plunge.
So if some folks think it's too expensive, then they must be right and the product must not be ready for them just yet. (same deal with the first PC's, laptop, flat screen TV's...)
Competition is good, but if someone thinks that they can get the same or better quality as a Vectrix for less I think they're going to wait a long time...
Just to put the price in perspective:
-you get quality batteries (GP is not a newcomer in the battery business and NiMH is a proven technology used in EV's and industrial applications) Major auto manufacturers are not ready do put Li-ion on the market just yet there are reasons for that, today's Lithium are just not up to snuff. It takes a lot of electronic to maintain a pack in a good state of health and guaranty safe operation (even with inherently safer chemistry). Someone active on this forum has posted battery data that shows very little disparity between cells, and yet there is no fancy electronic equalizing circuit on this pack, the smarts are in the charger. That would not be possible with lithium at this time. As a side note there have been known battery issues with the Vectrix but that has more to do with battery misuse, bugs and bad assembly but not with the battery technology itself.
-The motor controller designed by Parker Hannifin offers full regen (not some here-today-gone-tomorrow company either)
-all of the other motorcycle parts are brand names (Brembo, Sachs, marzocchi), frame is all aluminum and the displays are high quality LCD. The Vectrix also has 3 programmable controllers (vehicle main, motor/controller, charger) all communicate via a CAN bus (same kind used in modern cars).
I think that speaks for itself...

Now do I think I paid too much: yes!
Am I still happy about my purchase: Hell yeah!
What do I think about all these ZappyZappoWorld EV/scoot/entrepreneurs: If they can deliver products, great! Again competition is good for all of us but at the moment I smell a lot of vaporware...(especially with venture capital getting scarce)

In the meantime I wish you all a Joly electric time...on your Vectrix

3. Why do you copy-paste the same text in multiple threads?

Exactly Andy, here we go yet again huh?

I for one am very pleased with my Vectrix which suits my commuting needs and so much more.

Oh hang on.......I HAVE had some trouble with it.... I got that puncture last month, I hate bikes that are that unreliable, and as for one Vectrix to have the temerity to slip on wet leaves during cornering as posted recently, gasp! Well if mine EVER does that to ME I'll just sell it immediately, I mean you shouldn't expect that kind of bad behaviour from a single tracked vehicle! :-P

Some posts you just have to read and ignore, as I'm sure some people either have a vested interest in another company or get paid to post negativity here.

We lost the other one that way remember? He just f.a..d...e....d a.....w......a.......y when invited to reveal more "details" of his Vectrix grievances.

Now I'm not wanting to come all over smug with my (so far) trouble free V, because I know that some people have had problems with their Vectrixs and have suffered greatly. But there ARE some good ones out there, let's not forget that.

I'm not blinkered about my purchase either. The Volta looks fabulous on the video, and if the range is what is stated in the blurb, then, wow indeed, because styling and performance seems reasonably easy to deliver (except in the case of the G-Whiz) but I'm looking forward to the holy grail of a 150 mile range being achieved.

This will give, at least in the UK, a genuine intercity capability. Although perhaps not expecting the return journey to be made on the same day.

I want there to be more and more electric bikes/cars so that this technology gets readily accepted both on 4 wheels as well as two so that they don't just go the way of the Dodo and we revert totally back to ICE propulsion. We need to get to critical mass.

There have been many failed attempts over the years to get electrically powered vehicles into the mainstream. I believe the climate (quite literally) is right now and some very exciting products are being released all the time. Excellent!

So, here is the invitation again. What problems, (in detail) apart from it slipping on wet leaves were experienced?

All detailed info/problems on Vectrix unreliability is useful to us all, (take Mr Mik for example, Vectrix should offer him a job!) that is a main function of a forum such as this. Gleaning hints, tips, work-arounds, things to avoid, etc. etc.

2,000 happy miles now, costing about 26GBP in 'leccy, brilliant!

(oh, plus 20 pounds for that puncture repair ;-)

Simon

Rumors has it that EVC USA is introducing a new line for 2009, and it's even better than what they initially drafted for a would-be release in 2008, and instead saved the best for 2009. Why not release the best you can, and for this reason EVC delayed its release in 2008, and will announce those new changes in the next month.

Hey, the best is always worth waiting for, it seems that EVC is the clear winner!

PS: Vectrix will be introducing a Chinese made bike with the Vectrix label on it 2009, EVC makes their bikes here in the good old USA!

Well, if you folks are going to bother to give a reply to this then can I play too? Here's my 2 cents worth:

a) interesting that they haven't updated their website with information on the new and "even better" bikes? They certainly weren't shy about hyping the first models.
b) if (and it's a big IF) the bikes live up to the promised specs of even the "less good but never delivered" '08 models then it will be interesting to compare the voltas to the vectrix. But let's wait until the bike exists
c) yes, I'm also working on a "better than the chinese imports and less expensive than a vectrix" competitor product (see here - but I don't have a shiny website yet and we won't be taking deposits - we'll sell 'em when we've built them (now THERE'S a CONCEPT!)

But Vectrix folks I hope you're ready for some competition - it's going to come sooner or later. Yes, you do have the best bikes on the road right now - enjoy it while it lasts! ;)

Happy Holidays everyone (and please realize that my post is meant as a good-natured "challenge" - nothing more!)

Competition is always a healthy thing and I welcome it, because it pushes development forward.

-you get quality batteries (GP is not a newcomer in the battery business and NiMH is a proven technology used in EV's and industrial applications) Major auto manufacturers are not ready do put Li-ion on the market just yet there are reasons for that, today's Lithium are just not up to snuff. It takes a lot of electronic to maintain a pack in a good state of health and guaranty safe operation (even with inherently safer chemistry). Someone active on this forum has posted battery data that shows very little disparity between cells, and yet there is no fancy electronic equalizing circuit on this pack, the smarts are in the charger. That would not be possible with lithium at this time. As a side note there have been known battery issues with the Vectrix but that has more to do with battery misuse, bugs and bad assembly but not with the battery technology itself.

I agree with most of what you say, it is easily the best electric scooter money can buy on planet earth at the moment. And pointman is pointless, as usual!

BUT: There is a major design fault in the battery pack and the monitoring system.

I assume it is me that you are referring to as reporting disparity between cells, for no-one else has reported anything in that regards, yet.

Unfortunately the measurements I performed and posted (most of it on Endless Spere) show a very large disparity between cells. I was simply more proactive than others (due to the canceled warranty) and investigated before the battery has been destroyed. Have a look around for the reports of others who's battery pack failed and was replaced under warranty. There will be many more I fear. If you are lucky the company can wear it and survive replacing them.

The results of my Vectrix Battery Testing in a nutshell:

A) After just a few thousand km the best cells had over 50% more capacity than the worst cells.

B) Almost all the severely damaged cells are in the bottom layer of three layers of cells. I believe that their exposure to heat from hot road surfaces caused them to deteriorate so quickly. They would have been destroyed completely and very soon if I had continued to just ride the Vectux.

C) The Standard Vectrix Battery Monitoring System (SBMS) is completely blind to this problem!
The three sub-strings of cells (27, 48, 27) which are voltage monitored contain exactly 1/3 of cells in the bottom layer each; therefore they will still appear balanced to the SBMS, even when the bottom cells are empty due to increased self-discharge in the heat.
When a Vectrix is ridden and then parked somewhere on a hot road, the bottom layer of cells will be much hotter than the middle and top layer. On the way home those cells will be totally empty at a time when the overall pack (and sub-string) voltage still looks good to the SBMS. Then they get charged in reverse. This effect might have been lessened somewhat by the Oct 2008 software update, but at cost of overall range when the conditions are not as hot.

Two things are needed to fix the problem:

1) Heat insulation for the battery pack (I cannot test for the impact of extreme cold, but the impact might be significant if parked outside in -15°C.)

2) More detailed voltage monitoring: Either every module of 8 or 9 cells, or at least the "middle cells" in the string of 108: Cells 044 to 059 (all bottom layer cells in the front battery).
Instead of 27 cell-48 cell-27 cell sub-string monitoring: 27-16-16-16-27 sub-string monitoring. The resistors and capacitors for the measurement circuit are even already on the front battery temp-sensor PCB, just so far unused! (The Vectrix Techs reading this will understand what I am talking about).

Hi Mike,
you are indeed the person I was referring to.
Since you've experience overheating issues it's definitely no longer the case for most of the pack but as I see on some of your graphs, you've had some good matched cells left and that was probably the case for the whole pack initially.
Granted this may be a bit of a stretch, but to me it shows that those modules not affected by heat remained well matched. My feeling is that if we didn't have a high quality battery, the cell capacity measurements would have been all over the place even for non damaged cells.

Click Here for Image.

Better temperature monitoring and battery cooling are definitely issues that need to be addressed quickly by Vectrix for the current version or the pack won't even make it past the warranty(not good for V)...after(not good for us)