Vectrix owner poll: how did you talk yourself into it?

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Mik
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Re: Vectrix owner poll: how did you talk yourself into it?

Afraid I'm aware of Buchman's hypothesis (since 2003) but I'm afraid I cannot accept it as a generalisation. I was in a years trial comparing NiCad and NiMH cells used in the mobile phone industry. It was certainly evident that deep discharging was mandatory for NiCad, this could not be evidenced by NiMh, the capacity remained within a tolerance of 3 in a sample of 5 cells (mobile phon type - not quite the same as Vectrix). The NiMh that were deep discharged shows no real benefit or longevity when compared to those that weren't;t - even those in 'cordless' handsets that were always being recharged.

The only measurable difference was that NiMh batteries that were deep discharged once in every 50 cycles got hotter towards the end of their charge cycle compared to those that weren't. This led to a conclusion on balance, it was better NOT to DD after the initial conditioning as a regular regime, due to the high temps degrading the cells faster.

As for a 'memory effect' affecting capacity - none were evident, hence my original comment.

I can certainly confirm that the Vectux battery gets hotter when it receives a recharge from deep discharge, particularly if this involved a BaLPoR.
How much of this effect is due to an unmet "expectation" for empty capacity and how much due to the effect you described is not clear yet.

But it seems clear to me now that the recharge including overheating after a BaLPoR is not worth the (to me undetectable) range increase it might deliver.

Photobucket

Mr. Mik

This information may be used entirely at your own risk.

There is always a way if there is no other way!

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Re: Vectrix owner poll: how did you talk yourself into it?

I go by the maxim of if the Manual does;nt say it, there's no point second guessing the manufacturers!

For UK Vectrix owners, the Maplin electronis shop is 'deeply discharing' the price of its electricity/cost usage monitor. I use it with my VX1 and can recommend it, especially at the current price.

Details here: http://www.maplin.co.uk/Module.aspx?ModuleNo=223573&C=Newsletter&U=08P09-1&T=-11037882

- Raymond

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Re: Vectrix owner poll: how did you talk yourself into it?

I just put a deposit on a Vectrix today. I had wanted an XM-3500 but would not receive one until October at the end of the riding season. That's how I talked myself into it. After I found out a Vectrix dealer was only 25 miles away, I went out there, took a test ride, and put a deposit down...

Motoring in the Motor City

Wotnopetrol
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Re: Vectrix owner poll: how did you talk yourself into it?

My BMW-C1 (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/motoring/main.jhtml?xml=/motoring/2001/08/28/emfbm25.xml) costs 450 GBP per year in servicing.

Petrol 500 GBP per year.

Very expensive replacement parts for the C1.

Only 25 miles in town round trip to work.

Posiblility of free parking and free charging at work in the near future (440 GBP per year).

I love anything new and radical, I still love my C1 but it's 5 years old and will start to cost lots to keep going, I want to keep it as a cherished vehicle.

Not being so dependant on petrol stations as I have to make a special out of my way detour to fill up on my normal commute.

Feeling smug as fuel prices rise. Not too smug though as I use an SUV (albeit quite an economical one) for my hobbies, I only need to fill it up 6 times a year as it's strictly a leisure vehicle. Now I will need a "My other vehicle's Electric!" sticker for the back window to help prevent it from being "egged" while parked.

The sheer neatness of the Vectrix's operation. Mine's still on order, 10 days to go but I have ridden one :-)

Nice looking.

"Yes my dear, spending 5,500 on a bike WILL actually save us money! How about that?" Well I tried it...how many Vectrix owners haven't LOL!

It took 18 months to convince myself but seeing a fellow BMW-C1 Forummer recently spend 700 GBP on his latest annual service on a machine the same age as mine tipped me (screaming) over the edge.

Regards

Simon,

Soon to be a proud Vectrix owner, as long as the Hadron Collider doesn't get us all tomorrow and make saving the planet quite an academic point :-) I'm sure they've got their sums right really.........

Simon

moccasin
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Re: Vectrix owner poll: how did you talk yourself into it?

"Yes my dear, spending 5,500 on a bike WILL actually save us money! How about that?" Well I tried it...how many Vectrix owners haven't LOL!

In my case, it's actually very simple mathmatics. My current vehicle (a necessary full size pickup truck) is costing me $7 per day for commute travel in fuel alone. My Vectrix is costing me 25 to 35 CENTS per day for charging (when I charge at home).

If I use my Vectrix just 150 days per year, it will have completely paid for itself, plus its tires,insurance and tag fees in the ten years that its battery is expected to last. If the bike is still useful in ten years, it will very easily pay for its new battery, and we'll be SAVING money from that point on.

If the bike is toast by the time it pays for itself, then I'm happy that I sent my money to Vectrix, instead of some corrupt oil company's billion dollar CEO's slush fund.

jmap
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Re: Vectrix owner poll: how did you talk yourself into it?

I saw a Vectrix up close last weekend and although it seems to be a top quality, truly road-worthy electric scooter with local dealer support, it's hard to see how I could rationalize (to me, or to my wife(!)) spending something like $10K on one of them. That's a lot of cash! more than I could ever recoup in gas/mileage savings on my car (which of course I would still need). It's a lot from ANY perspective I can imagine (ev evangelist, saving the planet, etc).

So a poll, for those of you who have made the leap: What did you tell yourself that made buying a Vectrix the right thing to do?

Ed
------------
n/a

Seems that in California the Vectrix costs $7000 (after the $1500 rebate)...

Mine had cost me 8650€ (about US$12,200) so I am qualified to answer that…

First, in Portugal we are not used to have cheap vehicles or gas like you in USA. The gas is about twice the price that you have in there.

Second, it depends... But I think that the time has come to each of us truly contribute for a better planet. The money excuse that we listened for 100 years lead us to the deplorable state. Fortunately USA is starting (finally!)some real measures to combat the pollution (thank you Al Gore for the big effort!). I hope that the recent past when USA were responsible for the 70% of the carbon monoxide emitted to the atmosphere does not repeat again. Unfortunately, China is now the worst emitter and is getting worse...
What I am trying to say is, that is time to change the mentalities! There is no more time to continue thinking the same way! USA citizens are much richer than Europe’s citizens (for example in Portugal our average salary is about US$1000 per month). Vectrix is not cheap but the investment that will pay itself in some years plus the many environmental advantages. So USA citizens, if you have more "buy power" why don't you make an effort and give the example?

JP

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Re: Vectrix owner poll: how did you talk yourself into it?

What I am trying to say is, that is time to change the mentalities!

As I've reflected on the answers that people have been kind enough to share, this is the argument that appeals to me the most, given that I don't have nearly enough dollars in gas savings to make a strictly economic case for the purchase.

Not that electricity is perfect, by no means, but turning relatively abundant off peak electric power into mobile fuel in the form of charged batteries feels like a valid approach to the current energy situation. Maybe eventually to charge with solar or wind...

So once accepting that, there are two choices: be an early adopter and pay (in cash or maintenance time) for the privilege, or wait until the technology becomes mainstream and price-competitive.

The early adopter position has some compelling arguments:

- it funds the development of more efficient designs and scaled up factories, helping to push prices down to mainstream levels (this is the traditional early adopter model; VCRs, for example, cost $1000 when first introduced).

- perhaps more importantly, it sets an example, partly in the moralistic sense, but mainly in simply being visible using an alternative technology. Visibility leads to greater acceptance, more adoption, more visibility, etc until driving an electric vehicle seems to most people to be a normal thing to do.

So paying for the privilege of being an early adopter is essentially a donation to the above causes, albeit not a tax-deductible contribution in my state. A worthy cause, for some who can afford to do so.

Ed

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Re: Vectrix owner poll: how did you talk yourself into it?

I have been with another motorcycle forum for 5 years now. A BMW C1 forum to be exact.

Now, for those who know the C1 (it wasn’t released in the USA lamentably, if it had the extra sales may have saved the project) anyway, it’s a very strange little scoot with a roof/safety cell, seatbelts, heated seat and grips (I’m going to miss those!) stereo ABS braking, a little single track car if you will.

Well we had to put up with, and still do, lots of criticism and negative comments about our trusty cherished, nay, loved freaky little machines. I’ve known people sell theirs because they couldn’t put up with the snide comments anymore, seriously.

So it came as a big surprise to me when I posted in the “General Chat” part of the forum that I was buying a Vectrix.

I was ripped apart by many, which surprised me totally as many of these people I know personally, and to add that these C1 owners already know ALL about the prejudice aimed at them for having the temerity to choose such an off beat and radical means of transport.

The biggest problem they had was that “It’s not green, nothing’s zero emission, it still has to be manufactured, the batteries are impossible to recycle, blah blah blah.

If you’re still with me dear reader, you may be interested in my reply parts of which some of you may even use yourselves (if you haven’t already) to fend off people, mostly who drive petrol vehicles but seem to think EV owners are in fact the spawn of the devil.

I replied:

*************************************

We could go back and forth for ever over this, and we can if you like.

I had to respond to your postings since I have been researching the Vectrix project for 18 months, so consider myself to be quite well informed about it.

Also I have researched Pedalec bikes, the technology, costs etc. and even started a Pedalec tax benefit scheme at my place of work for our staff.

But this is about scooters. 250 moving parts as opposed to 10 times that on a normal scoot (yes 2500 moving parts) means a lot less to have to replace/manufacture and dispose of.

No oil changes, I believe waste engine oil just gets burnt in incinerators, oh, more CO2.

No coolant to replace and dispose of.

No fuel filter, air filter, oil filter, spark plugs. Less to constantly manufacture and deliver to the dealer in trucks and vans using more CO2.

Oh, while were on that subject, petrol has to be delivered by big gas guzzling tankers. More CO2 you'll find.

The regen braking makes using the brakes virtually unnecessary except in an emergency, so the pads and discs will last for a long time.
You have to try that feature to appreciate it's effectiveness, and it stuffs a bit back into the battery too, not much, 5-10% I’ve read, but hey, nice trick. Better than it going to brake pad dust and heat.

No clutch to replace, no water pump, no oil pump, belt drive, variator, rollers, or chain & sprocket set to manufacture or replace either. Exhaust replacement? No exhaust to replace or manufacture, deliver in lorries using up more C02.

No starter motor to replace nor alternator.

Zero emissions IN town and I would really hope that a power station can produce power at least a little more efficiently than an internal combustion engine which expends so much energy keeping itself lubed, cool and quiet, not to mention the power wastage through complicated gearboxes, and the drain on the engine generating the electricity it needs to charge it's own.....mmmmm what’s that thing called…the battery, which incidentally also needs to be disposed of eventually.

Yes the Vectrix has a computer, but so does the C1, for the ABS and fuel injection for a start, but what vehicle doesn't these days? A Morris Oxford from India perhaps?

Lights you say? All LEDs for reliability, longevity and efficiency, except for the standard H4 head lamp.

Oh did I mention they are road tax exempt for now at least. The tax disc just says NIL where the cost normally goes.

I stated in a previous post the Vectrix is about the same weight as the C1 so they both haul around the same bulk.

Hitting pedestrians because they are so quiet you say?

In 34 years of motorcycling I've never hit a pedestrian, I don't intend to start now, even with the Vectrix. Do you know just how quiet my R1100RT is when just pootling along? They are pretty stealthy.

The Vectrix isn't silent anyway, accelerating, regen braking or motoring actually, they say it is on some websites, but it really isn't. It's quiet yes, but who knows, it may actually attract attention due to it's strange noise. It's silent when stationary though i.e. at the traffic lights, when it's burning nothing and this is strange at first.

Come on guys, you’re just not well informed on this subject which I, as I said, have devoted a lot of time researching. It's not a hybrid, i.e. a regular vehicle with all those thousands of moving parts PLUS all the electrics, motors and batteries to drag around when on conventional power, yes I've read those dismaying stats and facts too on that type of vehicle.

*************************************

Thank you for reading.

Regards

Simon.

Simon

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Re: Vectrix owner poll: how did you talk yourself into it?

I purchased a vectrix for the following reasons -

- It keeps the milage off my diesel car and my petrol bike for all the short journeys which damage internal combustion engines over time - especially the diesel which is built for long journeys.

- I wanted a new toy, and this was it.

- It is dirt cheap to run for all my local journeys, as I factored into the cost for the vehicle on the fuel money I can claim back

The environmental aspect did not even come into it for a very simple reason - I have had enough of politicions of this country ramming down our throat to recycle this, sort that, be fined £100 if you don't do that, "green tax" on whatever they feel like putting the next stealth tax on etc. I used to be mildly interested in doing things to help the environment, however the politics and attitude of the UK have ruined it.

So personally, if I talk about the bike on a forum anywhere else, I will talk about how quiet it is, how efficient it is per mile, and how well built mine appears to be and how reliable it is. I will not start about the zero emiisions thing because, like me, most people have simply had enough of it.

As Vectrix have said, some people buy this for the environmental reasons, some buy it for other reasons. I am firmly in the other crowd.

Wotnopetrol
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Re: Vectrix owner poll: how did you talk yourself into it?

I purchased a vectrix for the following reasons -

- It keeps the milage off my diesel car and my petrol bike for all the short journeys which damage internal combustion engines over time - especially the diesel which is built for long journeys.

- I wanted a new toy, and this was it.

- It is dirt cheap to run for all my local journeys, as I factored into the cost for the vehicle on the fuel money I can claim back

The environmental aspect did not even come into it for a very simple reason - I have had enough of politicions of this country ramming down our throat to recycle this, sort that, be fined £100 if you don't do that, "green tax" on whatever they feel like putting the next stealth tax on etc. I used to be mildly interested in doing things to help the environment, however the politics and attitude of the UK have ruined it.

So personally, if I talk about the bike on a forum anywhere else, I will talk about how quiet it is, how efficient it is per mile, and how well built mine appears to be and how reliable it is. I will not start about the zero emiisions thing because, like me, most people have simply had enough of it.

As Vectrix have said, some people buy this for the environmental reasons, some buy it for other reasons. I am firmly in the other crowd.

You are right, it does get tiresome feeling that you have to justify your choice of transport.

I found myself doing just that when I bought a diesel Landrover Discovery for my other profession of diving instructor.

That vehicle ONLY gets used for that purpose, I found myself fighting my corner with my neighbour whose petrol Mercedes is not just bigger than my car, only does 20mpg against my 35mpg, he uses it in town every day!........there I go again, justifying myself for SUV ownership. LOL!!!
It does annoy though when you come back to a dozen eggs thrown all over the windows because they have no idea that you ride a little scoot (soon to be a Vectrix) all week.

So, simply put, I chose the Vectrix from a strictly selfish point of view, it's going to save me money in the long run, but I know I'm really going to enjoy every minute on it too. :-)

Simon

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Re: Vectrix owner poll: how did you talk yourself into it?

I bought my Vectrix simply because it was the right vehicle for the job.

My daily needs don't push the Vectrix's limits, it cost pennies to recharge, is easy to ride in stop and go traffic, since there are no gears/clutch to deal with, and it's way more fun to ride than a small, cheap, no frills economy car!

I get a sense that people see me and think I'm just a geek on a scooter, without realizing that I am actually riding on amps and not gas, so I have ordered some much more visible "Electric!" and "NO GAS!" decals for the bike, because VISIBILITY is what's going to seperate the Vectrix from any other ordinary scooter, and visibility is what will ultimately make Vectrix Corp a profitable and reliable company.

I sent a note to my dealer asking for a set of Demo decals for the bike, but never got a response, so I followed a link posted by another user to a do-it-yourself lettering company and changed up his idea a bit to suit me. Total cost of two side and one rear decals was around 45 bucks, but if it takes me out of the "just another guy on a scooter" persona, then it's worth a few bucks (besides, I haven't bought gas since July 31!! HAHA!! ;-)

Wotnopetrol
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Re: Vectrix owner poll: how did you talk yourself into it?

I sent a note to my dealer asking for a set of Demo decals for the bike, but never got a response, so I followed a link posted by another user to a do-it-yourself lettering company and changed up his idea a bit to suit me. Total cost of two side and one rear decals was around 45 bucks, but if it takes me out of the "just another guy on a scooter" persona, then it's worth a few bucks (besides, I haven't bought gas since July 31!! HAHA!! ;-)

I have to say the demo model I rode had "ELECTRIC" written up the sides and I secretly hoped mine would have the same. HEHE!

Simon

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Re: Vectrix owner poll: how did you talk yourself into it?

Can anyone post a picture of a good custom decal that highlights the "electric".

I am also interested in advertising what I am riding.

moccasin
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Re: Vectrix owner poll: how did you talk yourself into it?

well, I can't show pics until they actually get here and are on the bike, but here are the links to the decals that I'm working with. The top three are the ones that another poster shared, and the bottom two are mine. I'm not totally sure how well the curved side decals are going to match up to the body lines of the Vectrix, but I'll know shortly. ;-) I'll show them off in a week or so when the deed is done.

From another poster: (I'll give him credit when I can find the original post)
Right ELECTRIC!
http://doityourselflettering.com/create/?LoadDesign=87530&Conf=154069

Left ELECTRIC!
http://doityourselflettering.com/create/?LoadDesign=87531&Conf=855429

Rear Straight ELECTRIC!
http://doityourselflettering.com/create/?LoadDesign=87527&Conf=980181

My Lettering
Right and Left: ELECTRIC! 2.5 x 12" (Curved Down)
http://doityourselflettering.com/create/?LoadDesign=104515&Conf=347319

Rear NO GAS! 2 x 8" (Inflate Down)
http://doityourselflettering.com/create/?LoadDesign=104516&Conf=13339

Morrison
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Re: Vectrix owner poll: how did you talk yourself into it?

I like them. Be sure to post the actual pictures once they are applied to your Vectrix.

eyeinthesky
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Re: Vectrix owner poll: how did you talk yourself into it?

sticker.jpgZero CO2

Buzby
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Re: Vectrix owner poll: how did you talk yourself into it?

To be honest, I much prefe3r the Zero Co2 Logo than the 'Electric' variants!

- Raymond

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Re: Vectrix owner poll: how did you talk yourself into it?

To be honest, I much prefe3r the Zero Co2 Logo than the 'Electric' variants!

Most of the good folks in my tiny little town wouldn't know the difference between Co2 and a fire extinguisher! HAHA!! :-) But with our post huricane gas stations running out of fuel and setting volume limits at record prices, when they see my "No Gas!" sticker, they know exactly what it means!! HAHA!! :-)

//www.moccsplace.com/vectrix/graphics/reartop_t.jpg)
Morrison
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Re: Vectrix owner poll: how did you talk yourself into it?

I like the "NO GAS!" decal. That is basic, to the point, without being flashy.

Where did you order it from?

undead
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Re: Vectrix owner poll: how did you talk yourself into it?

I am probably alone here, but I ordered the bike specifying no graphics whatsoever.

I feel no need to broadcast the fact that I am riding an electric bike - to be honest nobody here in the UK really cares.

Basically its just a nifty form of transport for me. And its not a zero CO2 vehicle. I am breathing while I am riding it, therefore emmiting CO2. Whether that has a positive or negative effect on the environment, I really dont know, ( and neither does anyone else), or care.

Excellent bike though - great fun :D

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Re: Vectrix owner poll: how did you talk yourself into it?

I am probably alone here, but I ordered the bike specifying no graphics whatsoever.

I feel no need to broadcast the fact that I am riding an electric bike - to be honest nobody here in the UK really cares.

Basically its just a nifty form of transport for me. And its not a zero CO2 vehicle. I am breathing while I am riding it, therefore emmiting CO2. Whether that has a positive or negative effect on the environment, I really dont know, ( and neither does anyone else), or care.

Excellent bike though - great fun :D

Wow... Looks like someone is not feeling positive today... A zero CO2 vehicle is that have no emissions on running … but you know that. Your words just want to reflect the lack of hope in the system... Green peace ;-) to you man and try to contribute what you can for a better world because if everyone do that, the world would be a much better place.

undead
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Re: Vectrix owner poll: how did you talk yourself into it?
I am probably alone here, but I ordered the bike specifying no graphics whatsoever.

I feel no need to broadcast the fact that I am riding an electric bike - to be honest nobody here in the UK really cares.

Basically its just a nifty form of transport for me. And its not a zero CO2 vehicle. I am breathing while I am riding it, therefore emmiting CO2. Whether that has a positive or negative effect on the environment, I really dont know, ( and neither does anyone else), or care.

Excellent bike though - great fun :D

Wow... Looks like someone is not feeling positive today... A zero CO2 vehicle is that have no emissions on running … but you know that. Your words just want to reflect the lack of hope in the system... Green peace ;-) to you man and try to contribute what you can for a better world because if everyone do that, the world would be a much better place.

I am very positive thankyou where it matters :) I just don't need the latest fashionable bandwagon to jump on to justify myself, or the feeling of "hope" for something which may or may not be affected by our actions. Until it is 100% scientifically proven that it can make a difference - I have little or no time or interest for it. However that is my view and I am not interested in debating it, here or anywhere else so I will drop the matter on this one now

Don't get me wrong, I respect your views and I am sure they work for you - but they do not work for me.

As vectrix said, vectrix users are a diverse bunch. Some people got it to be green, others got it because it suited their needs. I am very firmly in the latter camp.

moccasin
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Re: Vectrix owner poll: how did you talk yourself into it?

I like the "NO GAS!" decal. That is basic, to the point, without being flashy.

Where did you order it from?

I was hpoing for a license plate that read "No Gas!", but that was unavailable, so I went with "LK TRK" and followed it up with the No Gas decal.

I have photos, sources and links to my side and rear graphics on my Delphi site at:
http://forums.delphiforums.com/vectrix/messages?msg=10.1

//www.moccsplace.com/vectrix/graphics/sidecloser_500.jpg)
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Re: Vectrix owner poll: how did you talk yourself into it?

[
I am very positive thankyou where it matters :) I just don't need the latest fashionable bandwagon to jump on to justify myself, or the feeling of "hope" for something which may or may not be affected by our actions. Until it is 100% scientifically proven that it can make a difference - I have little or no time or interest for it. However that is my view and I am not interested in debating it, here or anywhere else so I will drop the matter on this one now

Don't get me wrong, I respect your views and I am sure they work for you - but they do not work for me.

As vectrix said, vectrix users are a diverse bunch. Some people got it to be green, others got it because it suited their needs. I am very firmly in the latter camp.

I don’t admire but I respect your point of view. Vectrix were right but said that because wants to target a large spectrum... Vectrix is more about “green” and “economic”. I consider my interest on it as a mix between Green-Economic-Quality. Vectrix said also that "cool people ride electric" and this is so stupid... What a bad slogan! I dislike all the publicity concerning coolness. Is not the things owned that defines people...

Personally I am discreet, so I feel very well with the small "electric" label that comes from factory. Until now I saw only one label/sign that I've liked. I post it here:

JP

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Re: Vectrix owner poll: how did you talk yourself into it?
[
I am very positive thankyou where it matters :) I just don't need the latest fashionable bandwagon to jump on to justify myself, or the feeling of "hope" for something which may or may not be affected by our actions. Until it is 100% scientifically proven that it can make a difference - I have little or no time or interest for it. However that is my view and I am not interested in debating it, here or anywhere else so I will drop the matter on this one now

Don't get me wrong, I respect your views and I am sure they work for you - but they do not work for me.

As vectrix said, vectrix users are a diverse bunch. Some people got it to be green, others got it because it suited their needs. I am very firmly in the latter camp.

I don’t admire but I respect your point of view. Vectrix were right but said that because wants to target a large spectrum... Vectrix is more about “green” and “economic”. I consider my interest on it as a mix between Green-Economic-Quality. Vectrix said also that "cool people ride electric" and this is so stupid... What a bad slogan! I dislike all the publicity concerning coolness. Is not the things owned that defines people...

Personally I am discreet, so I feel very well with the small "electric" label that comes from factory. Until now I saw only one label/sign that I've liked. I post it here:

JP

I agree with you, it is a terrible slogan! It sounds like they travelled back in time and found a 10 year old in the 80's and asked it what their slogan should be...

Like the sign though :D

Magendanz
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Re: Vectrix owner poll: how did you talk yourself into it?

I'd love to find a bright yellow lightning bolt or power cord decal. Something like this, but fit for the Vectrix:

jmap
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Joined: Wednesday, September 3, 2008 - 10:30
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Re: Vectrix owner poll: how did you talk yourself into it?

I'd love to find a bright yellow lightning bolt or power cord decal. Something like this, but fit for the Vectrix:

There is a plugin for photoshop that does that effect. The difficulty is to print it... But maybe on the big print houses you can find that service...

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