XM-3500 role call...

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jdh2550_1
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XM-3500 role call...

Hi,

Who's got their XM-3500Li?

I just picked mine up today. No shipping damage (I'm now 6 for 6 on no shipping damage - I think Ann Arbor must have good vibes).

Took it for a quick spin - pick up and top speed are certainly much better than the XM-3000. Very happy with the pick-up not quite as happy with the top speed - mine just about got up to an indicated top speed of 52mph. But we'll see how things go and how close that speed is to the real world.

It's also much bigger than the XM-3000 and you sit much higher. Not sure I like the ergonomics that much - but it might just take some getting used to. It's light and nimble.

The bike's on charge right now. Haven't taken pictures or delved under the covers yet. More to follow...

(BTW, it's all black and has a small white XB-3500Li sticker instead of the big flames and it has Verde in green on the front).

PetroZero
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Re: XM-3500 role call...

Thanks for the report John. On top speed, 52 indicated would tend to be at least 10% less than actual, right? So top speed goes from 55-60 to 40-45??? Not much better than xm-3000 then?

...color me disappointed

~ scott
My Blog: <a href="http://www.petrozero.org">PetroZero.org</a>
My Bike: 2007 Lashout Electric Scooter (12mph/12miles)
Considering: xm-3500Li

MikeB
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Re: XM-3500 role call...

I think the DOT standard for speedometers doesn't allow it to under-report. The allowable error range is something like -0% to +15%. For legal liability as well as safety reasons, your actual speed should never be higher than you think it is.

Most of the other motorcycle/scooters that I know of will over-report speed by about 10%, so my Honda SilverWing says it's going 80 but it's really doing just 73 (GPS verified).

My electric vehicle: CuMoCo C130 scooter.

jdh2550_1
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Re: XM-3500 role call...

Let's say 45-50 at the moment. I'll get a GPS read on it soon - and I have a friend with a radar gun which we'll also use at some point. Anecdotally the top speed must be around 50 because on my ride in this morning cars on the 50mph stretch were only just pulling away from me (and everyone here drives faster than the posted speed).

The pick up is much better and on hills where the XM-3000 would drop to 35 the XM-3500Li was good at 45-50 (indicated). Also, accelerating away from lights with an uphill incline is much better. It's definitely a more powerful bike than the XM-3000 (no surprise), but like you I was hoping for a little more top end.

It's got the weirdest shaped mirrors - not sure I care for them, but they're OK. The rest of the bike looks very nice - I prefer the smaller stickers and the all black paint scheme. The seating position feels fine - just different than the XM-3000 (I also ride a Suzuki V-Strom DL-1000 and it feels almost as high as that!) Big and tall folks will likely appreciate this extra size. Those shorter than say 5'6" would likely be on tip-toe rather than flat footed.

Oh, and mine has a sticky throttle. It's no big deal to have to roll it closed rather than just releasing it - but it is a bit of a surprise when the bike didn't slow down. Low speed switch is useful for slow speed maneuvering and going through 25mph neighborhoods.

Finally, you can tell Lithium is a lot lighter when you come to put the bike on the center stand - as light as a feather (well, it would have to be a REALLY BIG feather, but you get my point).

More later...

John H. Founder of Current Motor Company - opinions on this site belong to me; not to my employer
Remember: " 'lectric for local. diesel for distance" - JTH, Amp Bros || "No Gas.

PetroZero
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Re: XM-3500 role call...

Most of the other motorcycle/scooters that I know of will over-report speed by about 10%, so my Honda SilverWing says it's going 80 but it's really doing just 73 (GPS verified).

You are correct, I mistated my post. I meant to say that the indicated speed is likely 10% optimistic (not pessimistic). In any event, John has posted an update which appears to give some additional info.

~ scott
My Blog: <a href="http://www.petrozero.org">PetroZero.org</a>
My Bike: 2007 Lashout Electric Scooter (12mph/12miles)
Considering: xm-3500Li

PetroZero
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Re: XM-3500 role call...

Great information John. Thanks very much. Can't wait to hear more as you have time to get more rides in.

One question I'm very interested in getting your opinion on is how this bike compares to Vectrix. I know that fit and finish are no where near the same class, but in general, for those who might be wanting for a Vectrix but lacking in bank to afford one, could this bike serve as a lower cost alternative? Or does it still lack the top end oomph to serve as a daily driver?

Also, some have indicated that it does not appear to have a BMS. What have you found on that? Finally, what are your impressions of the charging system?

~ scott
My Blog: <a href="http://www.petrozero.org">PetroZero.org</a>
My Bike: 2007 Lashout Electric Scooter (12mph/12miles)
Considering: xm-3500Li

eped
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Re: XM-3500 role call...

Received mine yesterday and quick update;

1) No shipping damage to speak of however container was very damaged on the outside.
2) Fairly good fit on external molding and parts (had to fix a couple of loose screw connections)
3) Charger works and has auto shut down when done charging
4) I am 5'6" and can not go flat footed but have to be tippy toed (it is a fairly large scooter)
5) Intstrument panel does sit below handle bars but is visible (bairly) but I am short so someone taller should have no problems seeing it
6) Speedometer is easy to read the KPH but the MPH readings are very small and will not be easily seen
7) Lights appear decent for intensity and brake light is very good
8) I have not riden it yet nor done any tear down (I have peaked through the access panels and have no more to report than what has already been stated)

More later

Green electric power and use thereof; what more do we need?

jdh2550_1
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Re: XM-3500 role call...

One question I'm very interested in getting your opinion on is how this bike compares to Vectrix. I know that fit and finish are no where near the same class, but in general, for those who might be wanting for a Vectrix but lacking in bank to afford one, could this bike serve as a lower cost alternative? Or does it still lack the top end oomph to serve as a daily driver?

This is a difficult question to answer - not least of which is because I've never ridden a Vectrix. However, I feel fairly confident to say - no this bike is not a Vectrix Killer (BUT THAT'S OK). I suspect (from what I've read) that the Vectrix has slightly quicker pick up and a noticeably quicker top-end. However, a question that intrigues me is range at 40mph to 50mph. I wonder how well the XM-3500Li with 40Ah LiFe batteries compares to the Vectrix with it's NiMH batteries.

Is it good enough to "serve as a daily driver?" (or daily rider!) Based on first impressions - absolutely yes. But then so is the XM-3000. The first part of your question really highlights your position: "does it still lack the top end oomph". I don't know the answer to that. If you want to cruise on the freeway don't buy an XM-3500Li (I'd be leery on being on a Vectrix too). If you need a solid 55mph cruise with capability of up to 65mph then this bike is a little shy of that. If you're happy with a 50mph top speed then this bike might work out for you (still need to get that speed confirmed).

I agree with eped - the mph scale on this bike are harder to read than on the XM-3000. Also, the gauges aren't particularly well placed. They're not disastrously bad - just not as good as one might hope for.

At less than half the price of a Vectrix and with arguably better batteries I do think that the XM-3500Li does deserve a look in for those folks considering a Vectrix. Yes, the Vectrix is likely better - but is it $5000 better? That's your call...

John H. Founder of Current Motor Company - opinions on this site belong to me; not to my employer
Remember: " 'lectric for local. diesel for distance" - JTH, Amp Bros || "No Gas.

eped
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Re: XM-3500 role call...

Brief update - I live in a neighborhood where I am limited in travel and can not access a good area to test top end until I get it licensed.

I live on a 20 degree slope and am 165lbs. I am able to go just above 25mph throttle maxed.
I was able to get it to 35mph in one block level from dead start but then had to slow down. It was still accelerating decently.
Throttle maxed for two blocks up the 20 degree slope the "fuel" gauge was down to about 85% while driving but then went right back to 100% when I stopped so I attribute it to IR drops from the full load going to the motor and the copper losses (this loss includes internal battery resistance, connection resistance, cable, etc).
After putting about 3 miles on going around and up/down, the fuel gauge was still at 100%. Sorry, no voltage measurements, etc yet.
Slight out of round front brake disk rubbing but seems to be "breaking in" and getting less. I might have to look at adjustments of the brake disc if it continues. Motor controller is encased in a decent heatsink housing and was not very warm after the heavy driving albeit the drives were short (outdoor temp was 87 F).

Green electric power and use thereof; what more do we need?

jdh2550_1
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Re: XM-3500 role call...

I'm getting top speeds indicated of 55mp on the flat.

I rode for 77 km (48 miles) at a mix of about 70% out of town at speeds around 50mph and 30% in town at speeds around 35mph. The low voltage cut out was just tripping in on the last quarter mile.

So, with 48 miles before LVC at mostly top speed I'm very comfortable saying 40 miles "real world" range.

John H. Founder of Current Motor Company - opinions on this site belong to me; not to my employer
Remember: " 'lectric for local. diesel for distance" - JTH, Amp Bros || "No Gas.

reikiman
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Re: XM-3500 roll call...

..er.. "role call"?? Shouldn't that be "roll call"?

Anyway, I'm curious what the options are for installing luggage carrying ability. e.g. a trunk and ..er.. I forget that name motorcyclists have for panniers.

e.g. is there any way to load up four bags of groceries on this bike?

davem
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Re: XM-3500 roll call...

I have seen a number of motorcycle trunks and "saddle bags" (panniers? - are you a fellow cyclist?) on ebay.

The trunks seem to be a no brainer but the bags may take some "adapting".

jdh2550_1
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Re: XM-3500 roll call...

..er.. "role call"?? Shouldn't that be "roll call"?

Oops!

Anyway, I'm curious what the options are for installing luggage carrying ability. e.g. a trunk and ..er.. I forget that name motorcyclists have for panniers.

I call 'em panniers. There are various "universal fit" items out there - how well they fit - I don't know.

John H. Founder of Current Motor Company - opinions on this site belong to me; not to my employer
Remember: " 'lectric for local. diesel for distance" - JTH, Amp Bros || "No Gas.

sparc5
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Re: XM-3500 role call...

What is the low voltage cutout set at?

XM-3000...
-DC-DC converter replaced with a Dell D220P-01 power supply.
-72V mod
-Expensive bank charger until I come up with something better... Still trying.
-

jdh2550_1
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Re: XM-3500 role call...

What is the low voltage cutout set at?

I dunno - do you have a simple way I can test this without going for another really long ride?

John H. Founder of Current Motor Company - opinions on this site belong to me; not to my employer
Remember: " 'lectric for local. diesel for distance" - JTH, Amp Bros || "No Gas.

reikiman
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Re: XM-3500 role call...
What is the low voltage cutout set at?

I dunno - do you have a simple way I can test this without going for another really long ride?

There are other ways to discharge a battery pack than riding the vehicle. Okay, these other ways aren't as fun as taking a long ride. But at least you don't run the risk of misjudging how much battery charge is left and pushing your bike for a mile or two.

Such as.. a big honkin' resistor..? Or a space heater?

Vectrix-NH
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Re: XM-3500 role call...

One question I'm very interested in getting your opinion on is how this bike compares to Vectrix. I know that fit and finish are no where near the same class, but in general, for those who might be wanting for a Vectrix but lacking in bank to afford one, could this bike serve as a lower cost alternative? Or does it still lack the top end oomph to serve as a daily driver?
?

Hi
I Ride a Vectrix . It is a good bike for my daily driving . I need to travel 55 to 60 mph. So it is the right Bike for me . It has great top end . The speed is limited To 62 by the controler . not by power . It is great for two up riding . and a lot of space under the seat to carry thing . But as others have said if you do not need to travel on the Highway there are some good bikes ,that cost less.

Happy riding , Herb

MikeB
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Re: XM-3500 role call...

I dunno - do you have a simple way I can test this without going for another really long ride?

I'd think you could just remove (or bypass) a few batteries until you pass the cutoff. Then put one battery back in, and take a short ride until you hit the cutoff.

My electric vehicle: CuMoCo C130 scooter.

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