Hello All,
New to this forum, thanks for making this available.
I had considered constructing an electric vehicle many years back. Realizing I didn't have the time or the funds to complete the project I later noticed a video on YouTube a few months ago of an electric bicycle with a claimed top speed of 75mph (120km/h)! I'm sure you've seen them.
I began considering the possibility of using such a bicycle as means of transportation to and from work where I would need to sustain speeds of 45mph (72km/h) for a distance of about 10 miles (8km). I thought I would now meet my desire to go electric without having to build an electric vehicle...or so I thought.
Since visiting forums here I am hearing remarks such as "my electric bike hit 28 mph!". It doesn't sound as if my goal of 45mph is a common one. I hope you can get me started with some advice on whether such an attempt would be practical.
Here are some facts:
- I weigh 155 lb
- I plan on working with the state of Colorado where I live to make the bike 'street legal' so am not concerned about bicycle law limitations
- No real limit on Budget if the cost is justified
- Distance to go on one charge is 10 miles
- Speed to sustain is 45mph
Here are some questions:
- 36, 48, 75, 100 or 120 volt system?
- Controller recommendations?
- Hub motor versus chain driven motor and why?
- Would the weight of the motor, batteries, and controller be practical on a bicycle at these speeds?
- For reaching these speeds would a hub motor on the front and a hub motor on the rear be helpful?
Bottom line, I'd like to keep this as simple and cost effective as possible. I'd prefer NOT to go with a motorcycle conversion if possible.
Absolutely possible.
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewforum.php?f=21
If budget is really not a concern, I'd look for a used Zero or Brammo first.
warren
The big question is wind resistance and braking and control issues. A recumbent with a fairing can do what you want but make sure you wear a good crash suit! The most critical part of the equation is the battery. You will need to pull a high load out of the battery pack probably a sustained 2000 watts (1 hp =760watts). You would want a transmission of some type at least a 3 speed hub with a motor assisted crank or a separate idler chain to keep the motor at a high RPM to make it smaller. I have seen a motorcycle type setup with (6) Sears diehard gel lead acid batteries (72V) but just the batteries would weigh 300 lbs. The beauty of lead acid is the wide availablity, durability, cost and ability to regen brake and solar trickle charge. The faster you go wind resistance increases exponentially. I have an 700c AOTEMA 750watt on a fixed steel front fork with a LiPoly 52v 10Ah pack and a 20amp controller on an aluminum hardtail Tonino Lamborgini which works great with an average 20mph on a 11 mile commute. I have the power limited with a Cycle Analyst to 750 watts tops. The Aotema will pull 1500 watts unregulated which will ruin the battery on a sustained basis but will hit 35mph on the flats no headwind. I have a 700c 40 Michelin flat resistant tire which is awesome! I would need a full suspension setup and larger batteries to go faster on a sustained basis. The cops might give me a hard time here in CA, because exceeding 20mph is illegal without a plate and registration. I have not had any problems with the cops, I always wear my helmet, gloves, long sleeve shirt, long pants and use front and rear lights at night and obey all street use laws.
Wow, the Brammo Empulse is awesome. But when I say budget is not really a concern, I mean in the range of e-bicycles...I'm not scraping together a few bucks for this project maybe more like 3K
Not a good idea. Your spokes and rim will not last long. The batteries and motor would have to be large, heavy, and expensive. Your design envelope is for a scooter, not a bicycle. Bicycle wheel diameters are not optimized for that envelope. You would also have unending maintenance problems. Trying to maintain 45 mph for ten miles using a bicycle frame, brakes, and wheels will be an expensive, unending maintenance chore, not to mention dangerous. Find a used electric scooter and rebuild it with bigger better batteries.
$3000 should get you a lead acid Chinese scooter to do what you want.
warren
If you're in Colorado you could probably buy a new electric motorcycle for about 4000 dollars after rebates. Zero has just announced their MX in a street legal version and the Brammo and Zero S/DS bikes are around 4000.
=:)
Jason
Blogging my Zero DS from day one http://zerods.blogspot.com/
Well I've checked out the zero and I don't quite know how you came up with a price tag of 4,000.
I could probably pull that off. Can you let me know how you came up with that number?
I prefer the maxi-scooter form factor along with a brushless hub motor. Maxi scooters have lots of room in them for batteries, and hub motors are both powerful and maintenance-free.
For ~$2800 + the cost of a donor vehicle you can put together a bike that can go 60MPH nad has great acceleration and regeneration. It can travel 35-40 miles at 25MPH, or 18-20 miles at 45MPH. This is the bike I built:
It's a great ride!
Hello Curious,
Fantastic idea. I may have access to a Honda Silverwing.
That build is something I could afford.
http://green.autoblog.com/2010/04/02/colorado-tax-credit-makes-electric-motorcycles-really-cheap/
http://brammofan.wordpress.com/2009/11/23/lowest-out-of-pocket-on-a-brammo-enertia/
I really have no idea why someone in CO would consider building a bike or buying one second hand either.
And when they've had their fun, just buy another better one.
http://brammofan.wordpress.com/tag/tax-incentives/
Cheers Jason =:)
Jason
Blogging my Zero DS from day one http://zerods.blogspot.com/
Hi Jason,
Wow, that is awesome. Thanks for passing those on.
I didn't know CO was offering those rebates. Can't really see building my own at this point either.
Hi,
I'm in West Metro Denver and can show you how to get a new one of these for under $3000 shipped to your home:
http://www.zelectricvehicle.com/17.html
In Colorado, it doesn't make any sense to build your own or buy used.
Email me your info, and we can met to discuss how to max tax incentives.
Motorcycles: 2011 ZEV Trail 7100, 84V, 60AH, 60+mph, Cycle Analyst, TNC throttle, modified charger. 2013 Kymco GT300i
Bicycles: 2017 Sondors Thin
Cars: 2016 Leaf SV, 30KWH pack. 2007 CR-V
Solar array: 5KW. Cost per lifetime KWH produced $0.073
Bi
I have two electric bicycles.
1. 36v 750w hub motor. Sustain about 38km/h (top speed 51km/h)
2. 48v 1200w cyclone motor. Sustain 48km/h (Top speed 76km/h)
After close to 7,000km here are my findings;
* LIFEPO4 batteries are fantastic. Great power/range with minimal loss over time
* bicycles are NOT designed to handle this kind of power! Constantly breaking rims, spokes, gears, chains
My advice...Do what I have done. BUY an electric hub driven scooter (www.erider.com.au).
ONLY motorbike/scooter frames are designed for the high power demands and have good enough braking systems. V brakes and bicycle disc brakes don't cut it 40km/h let alone 72km/h!!
------------------------------
eRider 8000w Scooter - PDT Version
72v 50AH CHL battery
350A Sevcon controller
24km: Delivered - 24 September 2011
2490km: Installed dual 35w HID lights Bi-Xenon Projectors - 27 November 2011
8313km: Installed BMS -
Holy crap!
I live in Australia and we have NO tax break for EV's. I wish we had stores like this! This scooter looks great! This is what you need to travel 72km/h.
Notice the disc brakes front and rear!
------------------------------
eRider 8000w Scooter - PDT Version
72v 50AH CHL battery
350A Sevcon controller
24km: Delivered - 24 September 2011
2490km: Installed dual 35w HID lights Bi-Xenon Projectors - 27 November 2011
8313km: Installed BMS -
Iv seen small, smart, lead acid powered cars in the UK sell £2000 with half sulphated batteries. Instead of 38 mile range they have around 28 at 40mph max.
Iv been messing around with electric bikes but would much prefer a small cheap electric car that might need new batteries within my ownership if I didnt live in the middle of nowhere and only had 10 miles to cover like you.
Iv nearly been hit by busses, cant find safe places to leave my £2000 bike and spend ages messing around with huge locks (plus having to carry them around).
Iv had fun and even done a 55 mile round trip on a 5kg 24v 20ah ping battery with a fair bit of pedalling and a conhis motor 500w hub at 19mph ( or 22mph with a single headway cell add on to boost voltage to 29.6ish). Iv recently bought a 250cc jinling quad bike that I might convert and am loving being able to keep up with the traffic again.
I guess bikes are so good for nipping through the traffic but things like poor brakes and lack of respect from other road users has pushed me to try a quad as my next electric platform. Loads of loading space for batteries and fairly hard wearing. Cedric lynch says it will be very inefficient over 40mph but if my 10kw 250cc engine can make it go 60mph and do 60mpg(4.5 litres) I think il give it a go. Plus it only weighs 150kgs and would be dead easy to get a dc motor welded to its rear swing arm (iv seen an agni crudely welded to a farm yard quad somewhere before).
A bike looked like the obvious low hassle choice but seems to have been as much a hassle in many ways as some larger projects iv seen. All types of vehicle have a motor, controller and batts but on a bike it was a nightmare trying to integrate it nicely and keep it nice to ride safely.
I bet you could do that easily in your budget if you can buy a broken old cheap donor vehicle. These chinese quads get sold on as soon as they hit 500 miles as things start to rattle badly. They just need some tweaking but allot of people panic and sell em cheap fast.
http://www.greencarsite.co.uk/carsforsale/01003%20Mega%20City%20Electric.htm
http://www.jinlingatv.com/250cc-EEC-Racing-quad-two-Passengers.htm