Need help creating an electric scooter

OK, here it goes.

I have a Diggler mountain scooter and a large electric motor (told it was a showscan projector motor). My goal is to build a daily commuter to get to and from work (been a fantasy of mine for 5 yrs, now I want to make it a reality). I ran into a guy who was riding one about 17 miles to work (SF bay area). Anywho, I stopped the guy and he said his friend put together a kit for $700 and he said he could go 40mph and could travel 20-25 miles between charge, this scooter had a hub motor and is way out of my price range. I've spent $100 so far for the scooter and the motor was free, quality parts are important but would really like to keep the costs down as much as poss. I checked online for any hub motors but no luck.

Questions that I have:
1. does this sound like it can be done using the motor that I currently have?
2. due to me not currently having a hub motor and this being a scooter means no rear sprocket, does this mean I have to go with a direct drive spindle system to use this motor? The stock wheel axles are a bit narrower then a standard bmx rear wheel so it doesn't fit between the drop outs, I might be able to widen the rear drop outs somehow but don't want to damage the frame integrity.

Pics of the bike and the motor are at the bottom of this string (motor is just placed on the deck for reference).

Diggler dimentions:
20" BMX wheels with no rear sprocket or freewheel (which I will put road tires on)
front shocks with 2" travel
have v brakes f/r (will get disk brakes cause it will travel 30-40 mph)
I'll go the the electronics store down the street to confirm what the motor draws but here are the motor details on the casing itself:

AMETEK DYNAMICS DIV
P/N 0842-11 SN-001
D.C. VOLTS 28

The motor dimensions are:
L= 4 1/2" (including 4 hole flange)
Diameter of casing= 4 1/8"
4 x bolt holes are 3 3/8" apart from each other
Shaft is 6" long (end to end) and
the motor has one black lead (17 1/2") and one white lead (15 1/2")

I'm having a hard time finding any info at all on this motor but am going to continue looking, if anyone know anything about this motor please let me know.

I found a couple examples of DIY electric digglers which have links included in this string. Whenever anyone has some time please help point me in the right direction, whether it be good books to read on building your own e-scooter or someone who wouldn't mind chatting on the phone. Anything would help since I'm not the best with figuring out electricity (volts, Amps and anything related to electric vehicles).

Thanks
Russ

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Diggler E-Scooter

Diggler E-Scooter

Diggler E-Scooter

Diggler E-Scooter

Diggler E-Scooter

Diggler E-Scooter

Diggler E-Scooter

before comments

Comments

Nice Scooter!
Its not impossible to do it with what uve got but would probably be easier and no more expensive to buy a $300 kit with hub motor, controller and throttle in it already. Then add a couple of 12v 12ah SLAs ($50) or if you have a bit more cash a LifePO4 pack.
(if you dont want too much range then racing LiPo packs are really cheap now and light, I bought a couple of 14v ones for $20 on ebay. But they are only 4ahr so they can give upwards of 50amps- but not for a long ranges.)

If you really want to try with what you have
Direct Drive not recommended - they are not good, and waste energy as you cant freewheel
Back wheel with sprokets are easy to find, take from an old junk bike, but you would need a cog for your motor
You will still need to buy a throttle and controller.

Thinking about it even tho ur motor was free - I still think ur better off buying a kit.

e-doggies's picture

Questions that I have:
1. does this sound like it can be done using the motor that I currently have?
2. due to me not currently having a hub motor and this being a scooter means no rear sprocket, does this mean I have to go with a direct drive spindle system to use this motor? The stock wheel axles are a bit narrower then a standard bmx rear wheel so it doesn't fit between the drop outs, I might be able to widen the rear drop outs somehow but don't want to damage the frame integrity.

20" BMX wheels with no rear sprocket or freewheel (which I will put road tires on)
front shocks with 2" travel
have v brakes f/r (will get disk brakes cause it will travel 30-40 mph)

I really like this scooter and think it would be a lot of fun, although I think as a "daily commuter" it could be limiting.

One feature I really like about the Diggler is the low foot deck. I personally would rather not raise it to accomodate batteries, but I liked what was on ES that you linked to. He put a big foot deck on, and the batteries in panniers (you also notice he has a 36V Hub motor and reaches 24mph).

I can't see how you will approach 30-40 mph with your existing 28V motor. Do you know if it rotates CW or CCW? If you did try to use it, you are looking at a number of challenges to: mount the motor; mount the batteries; replace the rear wheel with one that has a freewheel hub or sprocket (and disc brake?); calculate an initial gear ratio that will give you acceptable acceleration and maximize the top speed from your 28V motor (sorry, you can't have both extremes); find sprockets that will work; align the front and rear sprockets (part of the motor mount challenge); be able to adjust chain tension (another motor mount issue); and of course as colin pointed out, you will still need a controller and throttle, plus connectors, fuses, and wires. If you add all that up and factor in your time, a hub kit looks good to me. But then, I like to do the mods that only involve a wrench - no cutting, no welding, no bending - and I'm happy.

How far is your daily commute?

Can you re-charge at work?

What top speed do you need to reach?

What's your current commute cost? Are you looking for a fiscal payback?

Might not be many "Diggler Modifiers" on here, but you have come to the best place for help on all the electrical questions. Have you considered motorizing a mountain bike?

Keep us "posted" on your journey...

Harlow

reikiman's picture

I agree with what's been said above. If you like mechanical engineering challenges this sounds like one. An option regarding getting a sprocket on the wheel is to clamp the sprocket to the spokes. Currie did this for some time on their bicycles but I have no idea whether that's still done and I recall hearing of spokes breaking with that design.

On the other hand if the goal is simply to get a vehicle on the road there are many hub motor kits meant for bicycles that come in 20" wheels. One of those should just bolt in place and be a pretty quick conversion.

A few years ago there was a scooter which had batteries on the deck with your feet straddling the battery box. I have a picture here:

http://www.7gen.com/book/electric-vehicle-events/april-2003-antigravity-ev-expo/685

Electric Scooter Works is no longer in business.. FWIW. The picture doesn't look very clear .. there were two deck sections to stand on, one on each side of the battery box. In the picture there is one deck section facing the viewer, there is an identical one on the other side. This arrangement worked reasonably well as far as I recall.

Harlow, thanks for getting back to me and sorry for not getting back to sooner. Am in the process of moving so it has taken up a lot of my time. Answers to your questions below:

How far is your daily commute? ..........about 10-12 miles

Can you re-charge at work?......Yes

What top speed do you need to reach? ........At least 30 mph but I'm not picky (am a bit of a spead freak though).

What's your current commute cost? Are you looking for a fiscal payback? ...........Haven't really put that together yet but thinkin of getting rid of my car and mixing up electric diggler, bicycle, and bart and muni for transportation cause I'll be living in SF.

Might not be many "Diggler Modifiers" on here, but you have come to the best place for help on all the electrical questions. Have you considered motorizing a mountain bike?.........Yep but I really like the long wheel base of the Diggler and would rather stand cause I sit all day.

Keep us "posted" on your journey...

Harlow

David,

Thanks for your feedback. My original goal was to get a vehicle on the road, but one that is hopefully upgradable. I've established that I will have to spend up to a thousand $ which is ok by me cause the ROI will be worth it over time. It just might take a little time due to me moving to SF in a month.

The scooter you mentioned is pretty cool but I like the Jackal mentioned a little lower in the article.
------------------------------
The Jackal (http://www.greenspeed.us/jackal_electric_bicycle.htm), which was first sighted in public at this event (to my knowledge). Running at 48 volts, claimed top speed of 40 miles/hour and claimed range of 20-25 miles.
------------------------------

The Jackal's performance is around what I'm looking for (Running at 48 volts, claimed top speed of 40 miles/hour and claimed range of 20-25 miles.) What would be a fair cost for a kit with that kind of performance (in your experience)?

I've found the examples below so far but not sure what I'm looking at, is what will get me to those performance numbers.

I've found a few sites, one is electricrider.com. Saw a few motors there that have good performance, the Phoenix racer (speed) or the cruiser (more torque but less speed cause SF has a bunch of really big hills). They also have 72 V kits with controller. What are the main pros and cons between 48 Volts and 72 Volts.

http://www.electricrider.com/crystalyte/index.htm

The other was EBAY:
Not sure about this one (doesn't look like a very strong system) but I like that there is an option for regenerative breaking. Also cheap, but we know what that'll getcha (cheap parts)
http://cgi.ebay.com/1000W-48V-electric-bicycle-engine-Kit-MOTOR-lifepo4_W0QQitemZ290297693141QQcmdZViewItemQQptZScooters?hash=it...|66%3A2|65%3A12|39%3A1|240%3A1318|301%3A0|293%3A1|294%3A50

Also here is the Phoenix kit on ebay (plenty of options with this company). Don't like the lead acid batt that come with the kit though so i might buy the kit with out the battery components. Could you tell me what you think is the best kit for the price in your opinion?

http://cgi.ebay.com/Crystalyte-Phoenix-26-Bicycle-Electric-Motor-Bike-Kit_W0QQitemZ310114198729QQcmdZViewItemQQptZCycling_Parts_...

-Crystalyte Phoenix total system, complete kit. (Our kits include motor mounted in wheel, speed controller, key switch, connectorized wiring, fuse, batteries, charger, throttle with gauge (thumb or twist - your choice), wire ties, rack, battery bag, cruise control, brake inhibits. There is nothing else to buy). Crystalyte Phoenix System 7240P Phoenix Cruiser Motor on a 20" Front Wheel $1,349.99. Crystalyte Phoenix System 4840P Phoenix Cruiser Motor on a 20" Front Wheel $1,149.99

-Crystalyte Phoenix power system only. Motor on wheel, throttle, controller and wiring. No battery parts. Crystalyte Phoenix System 7240P Phoenix Cruiser Motor on a 20" Front Wheel Power System Only $799.99. Crystalyte Phoenix System 4840P Phoenix Cruiser Motor on a 20" Front Wheel Power System Only $749.99

Going with a front wheel set up to go in back cause both front and back drop outs are 100mm.

Thanks again.
Russ

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