Recognize this scooter?

That's mine. I sold two li-ion already to people in L.A. I have 2 people coming to look at the lead-acid one at home. Got 53mph heading to work today, according to speedometer. I was able to stay in front most of the traffic. Was slowed down by other cars. Nice to know I'm not the slowest. :-) It was more fun than expected. One of the guys in L.A. said he got 51mph.

Here is a pic when it was getting off the truck:

Yes, thundersky. Both types of batteries will last much longer if you don't deep discharge them. Battery equalization is another issue. The lead acid battery is rated for 300 deep discharges, but I doubt it will go that long. Based on extrapolating from other battery information, in other words educated guessing, you can get 600+ charge cycles if you only discharge to 50% of capacity. Mine only discharged a quarter of capacity going to and from work, about 7.5 miles round trip.

Here is what it looks like when you lift the carton off:

happy to see you got your scooter, Dan.!!

I was at the SF custom office all day yesterday to clear my scooter.
Going to pick all four of them up at the Oakland port after I post this message. yeehaa.

After months of research and waiting, I'm hoping these scooter comes to fruititon.
Though I don't hold high hopes for them.

I been riding a GreeneMotor demo scooter for the last month and the 1500watt is pretty dog slow.
(well, that's coming from an ex motorcycle racer. so TIFWIW)

Congrats again on taking delivery.

Gio

This is the scooter that I found while googling around that eventually led me to this forum. It is great looking and the specs are impressive.

Your specs list the range as 25 miles for both the lead acid and the lithium batteries, is this right?

Great comments and I hope the manufacturers and importers on here take them seriously.

You can sell "toys" of poor quality to kids with not much of a problem (unless of course you use lead paint!). Nobody expects those toy scoots to last that long anyway. However, when you are marketing to older teens and the adult market you will vastly improve your chances of any longterm business success by making a quality product which has been well designed and tested. You say it costs more money? I'd agree....but then the winners in this market figure out how to keep costs down but balanced with an acceptable level of quality. It's not rocket science!

I believe the US market is going to explode over the next few years into mainstream acceptance and purchase of various electric vehicles...considering what gasoline prices are doing and will continue to do. I hear it everyday...and see people talking about alternatives...the kind of people who would have never before even considered them. Therefore, the smart entreprenuers who enter the market (especially in the niche of affordable E-transportation like scooters, ebikes, etc.) and make a quality product at that affordable price will not only dominate the market but be in a position to maintain a longterm successful business. Those that do it on the fly and market "junk" will perhaps make a few bucks but nothing that will give them longterm business success and large, sustainable profits.

Just my .02 worth here...

Gushar

Hi everyone. As an end user of the fun-ev 3000 watt LIfePo4 scooter I will be sharing my experiences. I've been using the bike to commute to work for two days now. I live in the Los Angeles, CA area. I am 6'3" and 200 pounds in motorcycle gear. My wife says I look cool on the bike, but she has a tendency to be overly kind. Objectively speaking, I think I may look a little big for the bike. Later, I'll post a picture of me operating the scooter. I have a fairly level 18-mile one-way commute. The posted speed limits range from 35-45 mph so I am able to keep up with traffic. There are several traffic lights and stop signs along the way. So it takes me about 40 minutes to complete my trip. My top speed on level terrain measures 53 mph. After arriving to work I plug in and it takes less than 3 hours to recharge. A full recharge normally takes 8 hours with these batteries. This means that even after 18 miles, I still have at least 5/8 remaining on the batteries. The question will be, "Does the power substantially taper off as I near the end of the bikes effective range?" When I have the time and a vehicle to follow me, I will do a 'max-range' test under normal operating conditions. It would also be interesting to know if running with the full dual headlights or just using the small front light would materially affect the range.

In CA this vehicle is classified as a "motorized cyle." It falls into the same category as motorcycles less than 150cc. A freeway-legal bike must be a minimum of 250cc. This scooter does requires a "motor cycle" endorsement on the Driver's License. I have an M1 classification which allows me to drive any motorcycle. Because of the scooter's max speed capablity, I appreciate my "real motorcycle" experience. One could take the scooter and easily pass the DMV test for an automatic, smaller bike. But I would recommend taking a CHP/DMV-approved motorcycle course that upon completion gives you the fully motorcycle endorsed license and more importantly, the safety and motorcycle-handling instruction.

I tried to register the scooter yesterday with the CA DMV. The inspector and I could only see one VIN plate rivetted to the battery box. He wanted to see an ID on the "engine" (which is a rear wheel hub motor) as well. This means I have to go to a Calif. HWY Patrol inspection office where they will probably "tag" the "engine" to match the VIN. They use this same process when a "salvaged" vehicle is resurrected and maybe equipped with a different engine. CHP will also have to verify that the scooter is street legal. I'll keep you posted regarding this process. In the meantime, it's great to be part of the solution and to be saving $4 per day in gas consumption!

Okay, I have a couple of questions and I think a few have already been posed and never answered.

1.) The range on both the lead-acid model and the Lithium model are listed as identical. This doesn't make any sense to me. What is the range for each at top speed?

2.) Are these bikes DOT approved? No mirrors = no way.

With regard to the styling I would have to agree with usatracy that this is not a scooter but in fact a motorcycle. The body design is more or less a mimic of the Honda Reflex motorcycle.

**The Z-20's are supposed to hit the water tomorrow...

Roger,

I'm going to disagree with you on your characterization of this bike as a motorized cycle. Granted I am not saying that you didn't go through what you said you went through at the DMV, but this is California law with respect to motorcycles:

--------------------------------------
Motorcycle

400. (a) A "motorcycle" is any motor vehicle having a seat or saddle for the use of the rider, designed to travel on not more than three wheels in contact with the ground, and weighing less than 1,500 pounds.

(b) A motor vehicle that has four wheels in contact with the ground, two of which are a functional part of a sidecar, is a motorcycle if the vehicle otherwise comes within the definition of subdivision (a).

(c) A motor vehicle that is electrically powered, has a maximum speed of 45 miles per hour, and weighs less than 2,500 pounds, is a motorcycle if the vehicle otherwise comes within the definition of subdivision (a).

-----------------------------------------------------------------
As far as registration is concerned, see this:

Form completion—The vehicle verification is always completed on the Verification of Vehicle section of the Application for Title or Registration (REG 343).

The serial number on the electric motor will be used for an electric motorcycle’s engine number.
-----------------------------------------------------------------

I'll ask the question for you Roger, hey EV people, where's the serial number on the electric engine located?

DonC - With regard to question 2 and the mirrors reference I'm thinking you might have been confused. There are two bikes shown above - one from DanCar and being ridden by roger. And a "prototype" pictured by MountainChdn. The bike that this thread started by discussing (and the bike that DanCar sold to roger) is pictured about half way down by DanC. It has mirrors. The bike pictured by MountainChen doesn't really pertain to this post - just ignore it.

DanCar - I agree with DonC's #1 question. Please can you clarify the expected difference in range and speed between the lead acide and the lithium models?

Roger - thanks for the info. I look forward to hearing and seeing more. If you do get those pics you might want to start another thread or a blog. Just a thought as this thread is getting a little busy.

Good luck to all those waiting for a Z-20 !

One more thing...

EVTA has the Z-20 listed in a database at Geico as a motorcycle, not a scooter. I speculate that there is a listing in CA DMV that characterizes it the same way. I only bring this up as a recommendation to the EV-Fun people because I never would have bought the Z-20 unless I knew I could both register and insure it. I hope that the people who want to buy your bike can do that. I am an interested buyer myself and until I can get more info I'm going to hold on to my dollars.

Wow, I'm surprised at that news! Can't wait to sell my lead and get li-ion. So Roger, what do you think I should list the range as? What was your average speed? We know the range goes up significantly when not traveling at top speed. Did you hit a lot of stop lights? Part of my pessimism was that I didn't think a 40ah battery would get longer range than a 50ah battery. Scratch that idea.

I took a guess and updated the li-ion range spec to:
Max range: 40 miles at 40 mph, 35 miles at 45 mph, 25 miles at top speed.

Thanks,
Daniel

Doncristobal,

In California, any motor cycle that is not capable of freeway speeds is considered a motor driven cycle, and not allowed on the freeway due to safety issues.

USATracy,

I did not intend to offend, but I do think my view is more widely held by most guys you would meet on the street.

Medman,

Can you site a source for your information? I've combed the California Vehicle Code to find a definition, if there is a different spot I should be looking or a section I've missed, let me know.

Thanks.

California Vehicle Code:

Section 405. A "motor-driven cycle" is any motorcycle with a motor that displaces less than 150 cubic centimeters. A motor-driven cycle does not include a motorized bicycle, as defined in Section 406. (my notes: your bike does not displace less than 150cc)
-------------------------------------------
Section 400. (a) A "motorcycle" is any motor vehicle having a seat or saddle for the use of the rider, designed to travel on not more than three wheels in contact with the ground, and weighing less than 1,500 pounds.

(b) A motor vehicle that has four wheels in contact with the ground, two of which are a functional part of a sidecar, is a motorcycle if the vehicle otherwise comes within the definition of subdivision (a).

(c) A motor vehicle that is electrically powered, has a maximum speed of 45 miles per hour, and weighs less than 2,500 pounds, is a motorcycle if the vehicle otherwise comes within the definition of subdivision (a).
--------------------------------------------

I looked again at everything. It's a motorcycle and you can drive it wherever you want as long as you are able to safely keep up with the flow of traffic. In theory if freeway traffic is moving at 45 mph you are legally allowed to be on the roadway.

Manufacturer indicates the bike is 80% charged in two hours, so I'm going to revise the range estimate downwards, back to what I had it before. New guestimate: 30 miles at 40 mph, 25 miles at 45 mph, 20 miles at top speed.

I'm estimating once again that the range of the li-ion and lead acid are the same. Range for lead acid is guestimate based on miles driven and what the battery meter says is left. I drive it hard, which means I'm either accelerating, at top speed, braking, or stopped.

I've gained confidence with the bike. I'm starting to change lanes to pass up traffic. I'll see if I can get a video for your amusement.

The range of the li-ion and lead acid can't be the same.

50AH Lead acid is actually 35-38AH at 2hr rate,and weight 50kgs heavier than 40AH lithium battery scooter.

Small capacity and much heavier lead acid compare with lithium ,how come the same range ?

DonCristobal

Sorry no I can not site DMV code for this, it might be in traffic law not DMV code for registration. I do know that if the CHP sees you riding an underpowered motorcycle on the freeway, they will cite you. If you pay close attention to freeway onramps, some do have signs that say no bicycles or motor driven cycles allowed, the 150cc minimum was written long ago when there were no electric powered cycles. My 40 years of driving experience tells me that you will get a ticket if the CHP thinks you fall into the under powered cycle class. The CHP really does not care what the DMV thinks about registration code.

Neither the E-fun or the Z-20 are Motor Driven Cycles or Motorized Bicycles. The California Vehicle Code is not a "registration code" but rather it is state law. I am not going argue whether or not you might get pulled over for what you look like, but I am going to argue that once you cite state law you should be able to ride away.

All of this comes down to performance of course and whether or not the motorcycle in question will be able to safely keep up with the flow of traffic and "not endanger the safety of persons or property."

At the end of the day, yes, you could get a ticket but you should be able to beat it in court.