Phantom electric moped on ebay?

It's just another XB-500 clone. You can see the hub motor in the picture. If it's 36 volts than it's even older that the current ones. Another cheap plastic piece of crap. I know because I have an XB-500 so when our resident Xtreme dealers try and defend them just remember where they are coming from.

*sheds a single tear for UL7*

They are all coming from China. If you want one of these made in America, it will be built like a tank - made of steel and Kevlar, weigh 1800 pounds, and go 2mph on a slight downward incline. Prices for those start at $12'000 without batteries (batteries are made in China - YUCK! You will have to make your own).

As for this on on eBay, if it sells for anywhere near the $177 price I see right now, I'd grab it. Or we can all wait for the American made ones which should be out sometime around two-thousand-never.

this is funny....Chinese copy cat of a Chinese copy cat....Get it? LoL

Ever notice they never make copy cats better...they alway try and out cheep the one they copy...Companies some times even do it to their own line, take a look at Razor PR200's and MX350's...Razor made the first bikes killer and I would say if they kept to that quality more people would be racing them for fun...But as the years go by the R-D departments at Razor started to use the "Cheep'ster" approach and cut out good parts for parts that barely work at all, aluminum for steal and cased bearing for open ball cupped sets...Now they don't even use a proper halefect twrist grip's any more..

My point is "Every one is in it in the end to make buck$" Even the bigger companies

Your absolutely correct on that. I think it's the consumers' fault, though. No one really wants to pay for anything; technology, quality, customer service, hard work... everyone wants things as cheap as they can get them or free. It's a lot easier for people to whine about low quality than it is for them to reach a little deeper into their pockets to pay for that quality. American made products can last, but you'll have to pay four times as much since no one on North America likes to work for 10¢ an hour.

The XM2k is a good example here; I could've had them shipped to me for inspection, repairs and road tests before packing them back up and shipping them out again to my customers up to 3 weeks later, but no one wanted to pay the extra $500 for me to do that (packing & shipping these ain't cheap I found). They rather take chances and save the money. Which, in this economy, I don't blame them. If I was making $30/hr, maybe I would pay for the extras on things. But I don't so I won't. No sense in me griping about it - it is how it is.

I have one of these scooters and I am in the process of trying to speed it up. I have a few thoughts.

1). Replace the 500watt motor with a 750watt, and the controller too.
2). Place another 500watt motor on the front wheel, place three more batteries and controller under the seat?
3). OverVolt from 36v - 40/44 volts. I tried 48 and the controller automatically cut out.

Any thoughts? I am a 220lb man, and this thing is killing my pride on hills. I have had to push it going up hills so far. It maxes out at 12-15mph on flat land, and 4-5 on hills of about 5-10% grade. 15% and the fat lady sings.

There is no power to speak of, no top speed to speak of. I am a big fan of electric motors and mopeds, green energy etc, but this moped isn't helping me change any minds. I'm by no means rich. I'm a college student so the less money the better. So far, my best option is to take out the seat compartment, add an 80cc gas motor for top speed and hills for $189.00 Plus shipping. I found a 750watt hub motor for $179.00 plus shipping but that also means I will need a new controller. Thats it though right, not a new throttle or wire harness? I would prefer to do that, and maybe put the 500watt on the front wheel some how. Any suggestions?

First you need to determine how hot the motor is getting. If it is not getting very hot, then I would go ahead and do an overvoltage mod. If it is a brush motor, then a 48v brush controller would be pretty cheap. A 48v brushless controller would be much more expensive.

The power increase should be about the square of the voltage increase, provided there is no current limit being met. If there is a current limit being met now, then you will get an even greater increase in power, which is probably likely. Just make sure and get a high amp controller like the YK42-4 at tncscooters.com

The power increase would be: (48/36)^2 = 1.78

BTW, monitor the motor temperature closely after doing any overvotlage mod. It may get too hot, and fry. It is better to upgrade the motor if need be before you burn the old one so you can sell it, or keep it as a spare.

I guess my hesitation comes from a lack of expectation in the pay off. Let's say I upgrade from 500 to 750watt and from 36 to 48 volt, am I going from 10mph cruising on flat ground to 15mph? The bike is small and light compared to another moped that I have with a 750w 48v system but its not working so I have nothing to compare it to. Can anyone post top speed and power and total rider + bike wight to give me an idea of my rewards before I sink a ton of money in this bike? Bonus points to anyone who can tell me of increased performance of an overvolted 750watt motor on 60 volts. I'm looking to hit 30mph on this thing if possible so it can replace my car on more trips.

First thing that would really help is more information about how your scooter is performing now. I think it's highly likely that your scooter is under performing due to the controller limiting the power. But, it may be doing this to protect the motor.

The following information will help:
Battery current while riding up a hill
Motor voltage while riding up a hill (or voltage across the motor terminals)
Motor temperature after a long ride
Battery voltage (you may have a bad connection, or just a defective battery causing poor performance)

There could be a number of things that could result in poor performance, and you may be able to improve the performance without much expense.

I just got back from a 25 minute ride. The hub does feel warm, maybe 80 degrees. As for the rest, I'll have to get my multimeter from home. All the information is much appreciated by the way. I think my best move is to record some of the stats you mentioned and then maybe upgrade to a 60 volt controller and 750w motor and overvolt it. I'm hoping that will get me up to 20-25mph. Any thoughts? Thanks!!

do you think I could get more bang for my buck if I installed two traditional 1000 watt motors @ $69 a piece with the above mentioned 2000watt controller and linking them to the wheel with a chain? All the motorcycle converstions I've seen dont use hub motors. Why is this I wonder. Or even 1 normal 1000 watt motor for $69 would be better than the 750 watt hub motor for $179.00 or am I wrong? I was looking at a 1500 watt bike that does 28mph for $2,000 and I wonder if i'm barking up the wrong tree. So I'm thinking 2 1000 watt motors chain driven with controller and throttle and batteries would be just under $300. Burn!

You can buy a 1,000 watt cycle motor for $69? I'm not sure what you are looking at, but you need to consider all the motor specifications, including torque and power at the speeds your motor will run, when selecting a motor for your scooter. Generally the eTek, Perm or other motors that are used for motorcycle conversions cost $1,000 or more. These conversions don't use hub motors because they are replacing a centrally mounted ICE with a centrally mounted electric motor. You can get scooter hub motors from China for a couple of hundred dollars, or a modified garage door motor like used in the 1,000 watt Cyclone for $500. I've seen where people have converted car alternators or starters to EV motors. But where can you get a 1,000 watt EV motor for $69? Also, it is not so easy to use two motors at the same time in an EV. I doubt it would be cost effective to do so.

The suggestions in this thread of overvolting the controller and motor, or changing the controller and running the motor at higher current and/or voltage are possible. But the warnings to first check to see how hot the motor is currently running is important if you are trying to run a motor at higher current or voltage than the manufacturer intended.

On the other hand, if you really do know of a $69 motor that will work in our EV's, please let us know. With mass production, it might be possible to use motors built for other applications in our EV's like Cyclone did for their motors.

"American made products can last.."
very much truth..
my Tidal Force is example of that - you don`t have to go around it with screwdriver and wrench every second ride.
Worth $3500 + TAX for sure.
There are all kind of people, I am the one who would pay more for American -made.
Miroslaw

arthurpage, a BIG consideration is how you are planning to mount the motors and setup the drive system. The hub motors are extremely easy to set up in comparison because the motor is already mounted, and there is no need to mount a sprocket to the wheel. You might be able to find a wheel with a sprocket mounted that would work here: Electricscooterparts Wheels.

Another important consideration is efficiency. Hub motors can be quite a bit more efficient, especially the brushless ones.

Finally, the rating system is not very objective. I have a 900 watt motor on my scooter, and that sucker gets HOT when running only 20 amps input continuous, or only about 575 watts output. The way the chinese rate some of these motors is questionable. And, at the rated power, it is supposed to draw 33 amps, so that's only 75% efficiency. In terms of power, an XB-600 motor would most likely produce a LOT more power than my 900 watt motor, and more efficiently. And that is a hub motor only rated for 600 watts. This is based on some of the mods people are doing to their XB-600 bikes and the performance they are getting.

You might want to look at this setup for an idea as well. The second sprocket can be bought separately and put on this wheel.

Grandpa Chas S.

Hey everyone that owns an Electra Voy/Phantom IV!

I'm collecting manuals, part lists and other information at a new site I've set up just about the 88911 Voy!
http://electravoy.blogspot.com/

Otherwise, I too am looking for ways to speed up. Anyone know a good 16" hub motor?