So after a lot of thinking and exploring the replacement of my aging 24V 12AH SLA battery pack on my Giant LaFree, I ordered a PingPing 24V 20Ah LiFe pack the other day. Ping was quite helpful and responded to all my e-mails. I told him what I wanted and he came up with a solution. The LaFree has a 400 watt motor that peaks out at a 1,000 watts. I wanted to go with the 24V 10 or 15Ah pack to save money, but he said I really needed the 20Ah pack to handle the load. He is building the pack special so it will fit into my battery case on the bike. The pack is paid for, he says it will take five days to build and test the pack, add another week for shipping and I should get it by the middle of April.
I'm looking forward to have a screaming bike. The battery pack should perform extremely well compared to the original. I can imagine that with the added Ah's I should always have plenty of voltage on my short rides (less then 10 miles round trip) and have enough wattage to make to the beach and back (just over 20 miles round trip). I'm also expecting that the voltage will be consistently higher then what the SLA's put out.
I will give you guys a update as soon as I receive new information.
Deron.
On the purchase of the battery pack, Ping did not have the correct dimension pack on the bay so I custom ordered one. I did not have to go through e-bay so I sent him the money directly through PayPal. The price was $349.00 shipped, which was a little higher then his starting price on a similar pack, but it was build to the dimensions I needed to fit my battery box.
Deron.
I'm glad you're keeping us posted - I look forward to hearing how it all works out for you. It sounds like you won't have the problems reikiman had (because he had a lower Ah pack).
PJD (if you're reading) - did you order from Ping or have you ordered Lithium from someone else?
John H. Founder of Current Motor Company - opinions on this site belong to me; not to my employer
Remember: " 'lectric for local. diesel for distance" - JTH, Amp Bros || "No Gas.
I was thinking of buying a 48volt20ah pack for my electric bike but the concern I had was that the Amp might overdraw my controller. I am thinking gettting a 1000watt brushless powerpack motor and 35 amp controller. I have a lashout electric bicycle.
John
That is one of the good/bad things about the batteries, you need to use more Ah (more cells in parallel) just to get the high current draw for the larger motors. Now of course with the extra juice, the batteries will go a lot longer both in range and life.
Deron.
Ping has sent the pack out, I ordered it on 3/30, so like he said it would take five days to custom build and test my battery pack.
He is using USPS, wish me luck.
Ping is excellent at keeping me informed, if his battery packs are as good as his service, I should be real happy.
Deron.
I received the battery pack in record time, it arrived on 4/11, that is only two weeks. USPS did their best to try and destroy it, the box was no longer a box, it was starting to take the shape of a football. The batteries and charger were packed good enough though, did not see any damage to them.
After installing the batteries I'm having problems, here is the e-mail I sent Ping.
Ping
I picked up the battery from my friend, the shipping box was beat up, but everything inside seemed to be OK.
I followed the instructions and charged the battery first. The red LED came on and then it went to a green LED after a few minutes, the green LED then stayed on, it did not cycle between the green LED and the red LED. I continued to try to charge the battery, but the green LED was always on. I though that there was something wrong as the instructions said the charger should balance the capacity by cycling between the green and red LED and that it should take 10 hours to fully charge the battery. The only thing I can think is that you have already charged the battery to capacity, or there is something wrong with the batteries or the BMS.
I then installed the battery on my bike and took it for a ride. I rode the bike for a short distance and then the battery turned off. I waited for a couple of minutes for the battery to turn back on, but it would not. I then hooked the battery to the charger, charged it for a few seconds and then put the battery back on my bike. With the battery back on the bike it turned on. I tried riding the bike again and the battery turned off after a short distance again.
I'm not sure what is wrong, but the battery will not turn itself back on. I have to hook the battery to the charger for a second to get the battery to work again. Maybe there is a problem with the BMS not turning the battery back on.
When the battery turned off the first time I touched the BMS and the batteries and they were not hot or even warm.
I also noticed that if I run the bike with the motor on all the time, the batteries will not shut off. But if I use the throttle and turn the motor on and off, the batteries will shut down. This makes me think there is something wrong with the BMS.
Deron.
I'm thinking I got a bad BMS. The way the batteries did not take much of a charge when I got it and the fact that the batteries will not turn themselves back on make me think this is so. Also if I hold the throttle full on and ride the bike I have no problems, it's only when I cycle the motor on and off.
Otherwise the bike has a lot more get up and go, the Lithium's must be putting out a few extra volts over what the SLA's I had did.
As soon as I get this problem fixed I will be able to do a range test.
Deron.
I did another test ride and the battery pack is acting weird.
I have a steep hill a half block from my house, so I took the bike straight up that at full throttle and pedaling hard at the same time. The hill is a block long, by the time I had reached the top my bike LED indicator dropped one LED of the five. I kept the throttle full on and kept riding the bike for several blocks. I was still getting plenty of power out of the battery pack, at this point I decided to shut the throttle off and on to see if I would get battery shut down like before. Well the battery pack stayed on, it did not shut down like it had done on my other test rides. If anything I though for sure that pushing the battery pack real hard by running full throttle up a steep hill and then staying on it for a couple of minutes after that would cause the pack to shut down.
Anyone have any idea what might be going on? I get shut down of the pack intermittently and have to use the charger to get it to turn back on. The pack is supposed to turn back on by itself, is it not?
Deron.
Deron, I can't really say as I know nothing about the BMS. But, my hunch is that the battery may need to be cycled some to exhibit normal characteristics. I don't know if the BMS measures battery impedence to determine shut down.
All batteries need to be cycled some to perform normally when new, and after sitting for an extended period of time.
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Pic from http://www.electri
Deron, it's a little hard to tell from your report what power rate you ran the pack at. If you look at Load test on pingping 36v10ah battery I describe some thoughts about the pingping pack shutting itself off. The spec sheet for the 10ah pack gives a max discharge current. Using a Watts Up meter while riding I can get the pack to shut off at various amp rates between 20A-30A .. In my case the battery would start running again simply by unplugging the pack from the controller and plugging it back in.
I found so long as I keep the throttle at a modest level it is a fine pack and handles a 10+ mile ride with no problem.
This week I should be able to run a similar test with a 36v15AH pack.
Do you have access to appropriate meters to measure current and voltage while riding? While I used the WattsUp meter for the above test I recently got a Cycle Analyst unit and it looks to be much better and easier to use. It at least conveniently mounts on the handlebar.
In any case it sounds like you could be drawing power at a high enough rate the BMS is shutting off the battery. Try, instead of plugging in the charger, simply disconnect the pack and reconnect it. Does this work for you the same as it did for me?
- David Herron, The Long Tail Pipe, davidherron.com, 7gen.com, What is Reiki
David
I did try disconnecting and reconnecting the pack, the only thing that would bring the pack back on line is if I connected it to the charger. I did not mention this, I installed my pack in the original battery box and in order to get the bike to work with the donor pack I had to hook it to the circuit board in the battery box. I tried bypassing the circuit board first, but the bike would indicate that the battery was dead and not run.
Here is the latest, the bike is running now without any battery shut downs, even under heavy loads the bike has no problem. The only thing that is weird is, the indicators (5 LEDs) for battery condition are showing three LEDs. When I first received the pack from Ping and charged it up and installed it, I got all five LEDs to light. Now even after charging it fully I only get three LEDs, which indicate a lower voltage. Even with only three LEDs the bike seems to have good power. I rode it around till the indicator went to two LEDs, at this point it still had good power. Right now I'm charging the battery, hopefully it will bring it up to a five LED condition again.
Maybe it just needs to be cycled a few times to get it to perform consistently.
This battery pack reminds me of some computers I have owned, mind of it's own.
Deron.
OK
I did a quick check and it seems that you need to run the LiFe's down to nothing and then fully charge them at least three times to get them to perform optimally. I will work on doing that and see what happens.
Deron.
Turns out the LEDs have something to do with the bikes battery brain. I could reset it to five LEDs by holding the test button and turning the battery on. I figured it was not the battery after I read over 26 volts coming from the battery.
Well the battery pack is intermittent still. The bike ran fine one time out of five. The four times it did not run the battery pack cut off almost immediately, did not even have a chance to put a full load on it. The one time it ran it pulled fine up some steep hills and under full power on the flats. Was able to use the throttle without it cutting out.
I'm about ready to cut open the BMS and see if there are any bad solder joints or something I can see visually.
Deron.
check the individual voltages of each cells, it could be the low voltage cutoff on one of the cells.
Here is the latest.
The bike runs fine now. I modified the BMS, added a 26 gauge wire across the shunt. The whole time I was having problems the bike was on the threshold of running fine. The battery pack would work fine one out of three test rides. I talked to Ping and he told me how to make the change, he said not to go over 40 amps on the cut off current, he sets the 24V 20Ah pack for 35 amp cut off current.
The bike has a lot of get up and go, I guessing this is because the running voltage is a little higher then the SLA's batteries that I had in it.
My next test will be in a long range ride, the original SLA's were 12Ah, the LiFe's are 20Ah. I had to go with more Ah's because the LiFe's could not handle the current draw of my 400 watt, 1,000 watt peak motor.
So far I'm happy with my purchase from Ping, nice price, fast shipping, great service through the whole process and it looks like so far, good product.
Deron.
I'm a newbee but am interested in putting a system together. I searched for Ping on google without success. Could someone post a link?
They are on ebay ... http://stores.ebay.com/PingBattery
- David Herron, The Long Tail Pipe, davidherron.com, 7gen.com, What is Reiki
Does anyone know if Ping was affected by the quake?? I have emailed him twice over the course of a week and have had no reply...is anyone else getting replies?? I am wanting him to build a custom pack for my Roadrunner kit.......
Here is the latest on my PingPing pack.
I finally got out on a decent ride, at least for me. It was about 18 miles, lots of flat riding, some slight inclines and a couple long hills. I took it easy for a couple of miles as I hooked up with some friends with Human only powered bikes. At the end of the ride the pack still had juice, who knows how much as lithiums produce good power till they are shut off by the BMS. One thing I did notice was the pack would build voltage after a few minutes of idle time.
As far as charging, the pack seems to charge up fine every time. I have not seen it do any balancing, I'm guessing the individual cells must be very closely matched and they all charge up at the same rate.
Deron.
Another update on my PingPing 24V 20AH pack.
Went out on my longest ride to date, probably the longest riding I will ever do. It was a round trip of twenty eight miles. Mostly flat riding, with one really steep long hill and a few small hills, not much wind. Still have no idea how far this battery pack will take me, it still had power when I got home. I use the bike almost every day, no problems with the battery pack.
Deron.