Is the xm 3000 viable?

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betaceking
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Is the xm 3000 viable?

HI all, I have been reading here for a while since I have decided to get into the electric scooter market, this is a great resource!

I have a couple of questions that hopefully can be answered.

1. can I upgrade to lithium batteries for the xm 3000? if so how much do you reckon they will cost and are they hard to install?

2. will I be need to bring the entire bike into my house for recharging or does the battery assembly detach?

3. when I first get the bike should I charge each cell individually or charge the entire bank of batteries?

4. I keep reading about a battery maintenance system, does this come with the bike or is it sold separately? if so where can I find one for the xm 3000 and about how much do the cost?

Thanks for any input!

andrew
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Re: Is the xm 3000 viable?

Hopefully I can answer some of your questions:

1. Yes you can. You can upgrade any EV to any battery technology :P , but getting the right batteries to fit may be a challenge. The XM-3000 appears to use SP27-12 Greensaver batteries. Check the size here: siliconebatteriesusa.com - SP. You would need four LiFePo4 cells per 12v lead-acid battery. Thundersky makes some 40 ah cells that look like 4 would come very close in size but be slightly high. Check the size here: electricmotorsport.com - Thunder Sky Batteries.

TS-LFP40 (thundersky 40 ah cell): 4.57"L x 1.81"W x 7.48"H
SP27-12: 7.72"L x 5.16"W x 6.54H

Because the LFP40s would be stacked in sideways, the length needs to be within the width of the SP27-12 and it is, and the width x4 needs to be within the SP27-12 length, and it is, but the hight is .94" high.

Anyway, SchooterTech on the voltsrider.com forums has been doing a lot of research into doing this on a similar scooter, the XM-2000 which takes the same batteries. I would definitely contact him.

2. The battery assembly will not detach, and even if it did, you would be lugging 118 lbs of batteries. And, unless the batteries were side loading, your back would give out in like a week of doing this even if you only needed to pull one battery out at a time. Just run an extension cord.

3. You can't charge each cell individually, but you could charge each 12v battery (which has 6 cells) individually. Personally, I would either set up bank charging, or install a BattEQ before charging/riding any significant amount. The BattEQ would be much easier to install.

4. There is some confusion in the terminology. BMS = battery management system. This does not come with the bike. A BMS is a more complicated device then what you need. A BMS protects each cell in a pack from over voltage, over current, low voltage, and keeps the cells balanced. All you really need is a device to balance the voltage of each 12v battery or a battery balancing device. The BattEQ would be a good choice. It's available from NovaScooters.com and a few other distributors.

BTW, if you want a lithium scooter, why not just get an XM-3500? Another option is the E-Fun D with lithium sold by fun-ev.com

[url=/forum-topic/motorcycles-and-large-scooters/587-my-kz750-electric-motorcycle-project]KZ750 Motorcycle Conversion[/url]
[url=/forum-topic/motorcycles-and-large-scooters/588-fixing-my-chinese-scooter]900 watt scooter[/url]
Pic from http://www.electri

chas_stevenson
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Re: Is the xm 3000 viable?

4. There is some confusion in the terminology. BMS = battery management system. This does not come with the bike. A BMS is a more complicated device then what you need. A BMS protects each cell in a pack from over voltage, over current, low voltage, and keeps the cells balanced. All you really need is a device to balance the voltage of each 12v battery or a battery balancing device. The BattEQ would be a good choice. It's available from NovaScooters.com and a few other distributors.

Just to clarify this is a true statement if you plan to keep the stock batteries but is you change to LiFePo4 cells then you will need the BMS.

Grandpa Chas S.

betaceking
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Re: Is the xm 3000 viable?

Thanks for your responses, I was thinking about the 3500 but the cost is a bit high for me at this time.
I was figuring that if I got the xm 3000 to start then with the money I on gas, in about a year or two I would get the lithium batteries.

For charging I would probably just bring the scooter into the apartment.

So it sounds like I will need a battery equalizer to insure that I don't toast my batteries when I am charging them.

I am also supposing that you CAN overcharge the Lead based battery, correct?

Thanks again!

andrew
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Re: Is the xm 3000 viable?

I am also supposing that you CAN overcharge the Lead based battery, correct?

I may not fully understand the context of this question. Yes lead-acid batteries can be overcharged, and this will damage them, especially AGMs or other sealed lead-acid. This should not be a concern because pretty much every charger for electric vehicles has an auto-shutoff or switch to float mode that is set appropriately for the battery chemistry to prevent overcharging. However, flooded lead-acid (nothing you will be dealing with) may be overcharged occasionally to balance the cells because they can have water added.

That being said, charging a string of batteries without equalization will result in some being overcharged and others being undercharged. Also, when the charger switches to float mode, the battery voltages will vary quite a bit from my experience, and from what I've heard and seen from other's measurements. This will slowly overcharge some of the batteries. Chargers usually stay in float (or maintenance) mode indefinitely which slowly "cooks" some of the cells.

Bottom line, is get an equalization device, or bank charge, and you won't ever have to worry about overcharging unless something is not working properly. I also like to recommend unplugging the charger if the scooter will not be used for a while. You wouldn't need to be religious about unplugging the charger when the batteries are done charging, but a prolonged float charge has potential to do damage. If it's going to sit for more than a day, then I would unplug it.

To go into more detail, a float charge on these cheap scooters and ebikes without any battery equalization is a crappy way to equalize the cells. It doesn't work well at all, but it works to some degree and at the same time damaging some of the cells by overcharging them. I would not be comfortable at all doing this, and expect about 1/4 to 1/2 of the battery life if I'm lucky if using this as the means for equalization.

To elaborate further, flooded lead-acid battery packs can have their cells equalized in a reasonable amount of time by overcharging. This process is known as equalization and takes the voltage high to speed up the process. Over 15v/battery. It generates gas, heat, and vents off electrolyte that needs replacing. It takes hours, even at the high voltage. At 13.8v/battery (the float charge voltage) cell equalization would take weeks to months, and this may be what the idea is behind float charging. The problem, is during that period you are overcharging some of the cells for a LONG time.

[url=/forum-topic/motorcycles-and-large-scooters/587-my-kz750-electric-motorcycle-project]KZ750 Motorcycle Conversion[/url]
[url=/forum-topic/motorcycles-and-large-scooters/588-fixing-my-chinese-scooter]900 watt scooter[/url]
Pic from http://www.electri

betaceking
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Re: Is the xm 3000 viable?

When it comes down to it, I think the 3500 is the safest way to go for someone who really wants a plug and go, electric solution for short traveling distances, i.e. back and forth to work, the market etc.

Thanks for all of the responses.

BTW I keep seeing different shipping dates for the 3500, some say June others say July. Which is it? Anyone know?

bobby c
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Re: Is the xm 3000 viable?

Last word I got was June 15th. They are supposed to be on a ship from China now, we'll see....

jbird
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Re: Is the xm 3000 viable?

I do not know how long ago they changed their website, but X-treme now lists the XM-3000's MSRP at $2499 (up from $1999)

andrew
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Re: Is the xm 3000 viable?

That was today. I just looked at that page today and it was at the lower price earlier.

[url=/forum-topic/motorcycles-and-large-scooters/587-my-kz750-electric-motorcycle-project]KZ750 Motorcycle Conversion[/url]
[url=/forum-topic/motorcycles-and-large-scooters/588-fixing-my-chinese-scooter]900 watt scooter[/url]
Pic from http://www.electri

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