Hello all -
This is my first post to the site, but this site clearly has become a cornerstone for the EV community.
After some brief research (and due to a limited budget) I purchased an XB-600 scooter back in April to commute to work (roughly 8 miles each way) and try to avoid these insane gasoline costs. I've taken the bike quite a few times now, and it performs really well (or at least, as advertised).
I had a couple of initial problems with the vehicle (the cheap power adapter it came with burned out the second day, extreme scooters sent me a better one at no cost; the rear reflector fell off while driving and had to be glued back on) as well as NYS law (currently, the bike is illegal by default, although there is a bill that has passed the state legistlature that would legalize them (as long as you're wearing a DOT-certified helmet; I bought the helmet and I'm riding it anyway, hoping to talk my way out of a ticket should the need arise).
During this morning's commute, I suffered total electrical failure. My best guess is that I didn't seat the cable into the battery all the way before I took off this morning, and it became uneven as I was riding, causing a surge. The primary fuse on the bike had blown, and I replaced it with another 30 amp fuse I puchased from a garage nearby where I broke down.
While the motor and instrument panel work fine, the lights and horn on the vehicle no longer work. I've sent a message into X-Treme Scooters tech support, but I figured I'd post here as well to see if you guys can guess what the problem is first. Am I useing the wrong fuse--should it be some odd number fuse like 32 or 36 amps? Is there another fuse on the bike that I don't know about that may need to be replaced? Or do you think there is a board that's completely blown in the bike?
Also, I've seen allusions on other sites about there being a way to bypass the speed governor on the bike in order to get a little more speed out of it without doing a full 60v conversion. I understand that bypassing the governor and going at a faster speed will reduce my range, but there are parts of my commute where it would be nice if I could go a bit faster (say 28mph?). I'd love to be able to flip a toggle switch to bypass the governor, get through that leg of my jorney, and then toggle the governor back on. Any ideas if this is possible, and if so, how?
Thanks in advance,
-Mark
I have an xb600 and first let me "clear up" some of the terminology since somebody might be confused by what you describe. When you wrote "power adapter" I'm assuming you mean't the charger. Mine has been fine and I've had my xb600 almost a year...over 1200 miles. They do seem a bit "cheap" but I guess some are duds and others like mine are ok.
A "governor" is usually a power restriction device used on gasoline motor vehicles. I guess you can call something that limits speed on an electric motor a governor but most people I think will relate that to gasoline motors. What you are referring to is a modification Zerogas did to his xb600...which was two changes: putting a "shunt mod" on the existing controller board...thereby lowering resistance so the controller will send more amps to the motor when the motor wants to draw more power...like on hill climbing. The other is an increase in voltage from the stock 48 volts to 60 volts...by adding another 12v battery in the string.
I think what you are saying is that you think the battery pack plug was not connected firm in the socket and that caused a problem. Not sure that could cause such a problem. If I were you I'd have an outlet ran to my shed...so you don't have to pull the battery pack box in and out all the time. That could have "loosened" the battery connections from battery to battery...which might have caused your problem. Zerogas said at least some of the connections on his were loose when he went in the pack to do his extra battery mod. I'd check those connections and make sure they are tight.
Sounds like you might have blown more than one fuse. I do believe, if I'm not mistaken, that there are about 3 fuses in the wiring of the xb600. I'm thinking that there were some replacement fuses that came with the scooter...but I haven't looked yet so can't say for sure. But I'm sure there is more than one fuse in the wiring. The blade fuses are color coded for the correct amps...yellow, blue, green. I think there are some round fuses as well...or at least one...and the amps will be etched on the metal end.
Regarding a switch for the speed/power mods...I think I've seen those type mods with a switch for one or the other...or both. I'm not sure exactly the best way, or the correct way that is accomplished...although I think it will work if done correctly.
I wonder about all the discussion on here regarding state laws and ebikes??? It's been my understanding that the fed law makes these legal to ride anywhere a regular bicycle is legal, without registration...and in the same way as a regular bicycle...and supercedes any state law to the contrary. Anybody know this for sure?
Gushar
Gus
Ok...here's what I found as far as fuses. Mine came with a small plastic bag with two replacement fuses. One blade type, 30amp (green), and one round type, 10 amp 240 v.
I'd look for that 10 amp fuse and make sure it isn't blown.
Gushar
Gus
Thank you both for your responses.
I did find the second fuse, but it hadn't blown. For those who are looking for this, it's behind the front panel of the bike (the white plate around the headlamps between the handlebars and the front tire). After you remove the front panel, you'll see a yellow wire with a white translucent plastic casing in the middle. If you open the case, you'll find the fuse and it's relatively easy to pop in and out.
Two days ago X-Treme tech support got back to me, and took the time to call me directly. The guy I spoke with was very friendly, and apologized for taking so long to respond. By the sound of it, they have been swamped lately--I imagine the demand for cheap electric transportation has increased quite a bit, and if other people's experiences have been ...less than perfect (like mine), they probably have a ton of support tickets right now.
At any rate, the gentleman told me that the problem was the "Dc/Dc transformer"--a part that, given the name, sounds awfully redundant. Can any of you "voltheads" explain what's happening in this part?
As the bike is under warranty, they are sending a new part out for me to swap.
Now then, as far as the "governor/limiter" goes, apparently there IS a governor (their terminology, not mine) on the bike. During my conversation with the tech guy, I asked him what the two grey leads were under the bike's instrument panel, since I noticed that these were disconnected while trying to decipher my electrical problems on my own. Apparently they are disconnected by default, but you can connect them to engage a "governor", which will force the bike to run at half power. So, there's a tidbit of wisdom from the X-treme folks... don't connect the grey wires!
Regards,
-Mark
[url=http://www.markmilley.com/scooter/]Check out my up-to-date savings and ROI![/url]
Half power? That's what us old folks are wanting - all of you need to slow down. It's not all about power and speed... it's about comfort and security.
.
HA! I lied.
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Ok. The DC-DC converter or transformer is there to convert the voltage of the pack to the voltage needed for the lights, horn, etc....dc of course meaning direct current as opposed to AC...alternating current (house power). I was going to suggest you check that converter next if that fuse wasn't blown. If the dc-dc converter goes out then you don't get the correct or perhaps no voltage to the auxiliary items that need different voltage (lower) than the motor. I think the lights and horn are probably 12 volts so it's converting the 48 volts of the pack to 12 volts to power these items. I'm not the "expert" here on this...but I definitely know it changes the voltage to an acceptable voltage to power other things. So it really isn't redundant...in that it is changing dc of a particular voltage to dc that is lower voltage.
Now, I'm really surprised that they refer to that power limiter as a governor. But then I guess I may be so used to gas motors like all of us...that I've just always associated it with gas motors. Just seems odd to hear it used to refer to controlling the max power of an electric motor???
Wow...that's surprising about the gray wires with plugs disconnected that are in the gauge area...and limit the speed. I've had that gauge covering off and seems I did see two plugs disconnected. I just can't remember but now I'm curious. I'll have to take a look at that again...but I'm sure mine are disconnected since I get the max speed as expected. AF, xtreme never mentioned that to you dealers??? Just wondering...
Gushar
Gus
This was bugging me...As I sat here thinking about those "grey wires" it seemed like I recalled (just days after getting my xb600 almost a year ago now) having connected two plugs under the gauges that were disconnected in the instrument control area. I had that cover off moving some things around so they wouldn't vibrate and make noise. And seems I saw the plugs and assumed they accidentally left something disconnected when it was assembled...so I plugged them in.
Curiosity got the best of me so I just now took that white cover off to have a look. Sure enough there are two gray wires that are wire tied up on the left (non-throttle side) side of the handlebar (just to hold them in place they don't run to anything there). And, they are connected by a small black plug....and mine ARE connected. The path of both sides of the gray wire...leaving the plug runs side-by-side together with a red, black and green wire coming up into that area and at that point they are covered with like a rubber piece of material with a wire tie on each side holding the rubber covering around the bundle. On the other end of the bundle running out is only the red, green and black wire. Wonder if they have the gray wires cut inside that covering...so even though they are plugged together outside they are separated inside. Guess I can check that when I get home for continuity to see if they are.
Millyen?...(think that is your log name)...can you elaborate on where exactly those gray wires are positioned under that gauge cover? Are they as I have described running along into a wire tied and covered bundle with the other wires that are going in there red, green and black...and those wires the only ones coming out the other side of that bundle? I'd appreciate your response to that.
Guess I could always just unplug and take a ride and see if there's any change!...or if something else isn't working when I unplug those gray wires.
Note the following is not related to the above but I did note again...and do remember clearly this...that there is a black with red stripe wire and a green with white stripe wire running with a bundle of other wires up into the gauge area...and all are inside insulation and right where they exit the gray insulation those two wires I mentioned are simply cut. Saw that again just now when I took the cover off....and assume, as I did the first time I saw them, that it was wires for something not on this scoot so they just cut them.
Gushar
Gus
Well, no. Getting additional (and sometimes accurate) information out of X-Treme is like pulling teeth.
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Okay, so I received the dc/dc transformer yesterday and swapped it out with the one that was on the bike. When I was putting it on I noticed that the part they sent me looked used (there were stress marks on the plastic). This isn't too surprising, As I figure they probably scavange returned vehicles for parts.
At any rate, this didn't solve the problem. Today I also swapped out the cylindrical (aka bus-style) 10amp fuse, hoping that this would solve the problem, but it was still a no-go.
I updated my support ticket, and I'll let you guys know what I find out; but is there anyone out there with any other clues as to what could be wrong?
This sucks! I preformed the 60v mod while waiting for the transformer to come in, and it would be really nice if I could have some signals so I'd feel safer riding in traffic
[url=http://www.markmilley.com/scooter/]Check out my up-to-date savings and ROI![/url]
Mark,
It appears you have a wire broken somewhere along the 12v system. This will not be too hard to find unless it is broken in the grey insulation somewhere which I highly doubt. Take your seat off and look at that big mess of wires. Go ahead and take the front panel off too. Check the wiring at each plug for breaks. Also, when I was doing my 60v mod, I noticed the terminal had come out of one of the white plugs. These plugs are really crappy ,but they are cheap, LOL. Anyhow, it sounds like one of the wires has come loose. The only way to really find it is by checking each wire :(. I'm sure you thought about this already, but keep that extra dc convertor "just in case" because they are rated for up to 60v, but by riding at 60v we are pushing their abilities :). It should be fine though, I rode mine at 72v for awhile and it didn't pop. :D
Keep the rubber side down and the shiny side up.
hi there, i'm not sure this post fits in here but it's the closest topic I could find for some sort of electrical problem.
The XB-600 motor seizes up. I hit a pot hole, crack, or bump in the street and instantly, something inside the motor seizes. It slows the bike to a complete stop. As if the brakes are being applied (but they aren't). If I pump the brake caliper the motor SOMETIMES frees up, only to seize again later.
Can u imagine clippin' along at 28 with a huge off-road truck trailing you and you hit a bump and suddenly slow to a stop WITHOUT your brake light brightening?? Ya. That's what's been happening to me lately. I did BOTH mods. They work fine.
WHAT is going on in this motor? I checked the connections and they are all tight. One more detail, when the bike is OFF, the motor spins freely. When the power is ON, it is seized and can't even be push rolled.
serious help needed.
phoenix
You didn't cross the green and blue phase wires did you? They are almost the same color. I don't know though, that sounds like a hall effect issue or something.
Keep the rubber side down and the shiny side up.
Thanks Zerogas, all of us here can always rely on you to answer very quickly. I checked my wires and they are correctly mated. What is a 'hall effect issue'?? And it is fixable?
I hope there's some way to fix this, cuz it's making my bike very UNreliable. :-(
phoenix
Phoenix,
I just checked my XB-600, and if I squeeze the front (right) brake with the key off, the rear wheel spins freely. BUT, if I turn the key on, and squeeze the front brake, the rear wheel locks up. In other words, you might need to check the brake switch wiring to make sure the controller isn't being told to turn off power and activate the dynamic motor braking.
Update: The photo section of the schematic for the XB-600 shows the connector you could try disconnecting to see if that frees up your rear wheel when the power is on.
Tom
My rear wheel doesn't lock up (it gets a soft magnetic field )There is a six pin connector-using five wires only- going from controller to motor .You may have cross signal among two of those five wires.Those wires tell the controller the relationship of the wheel regarding the magnets , the electromagnet and the Hall Effect IC.
My rear wheel doesn't lock up (it gets a soft magnetic field )There is a six pin connector-using five wires only- going from controller to motor .You may have cross signal among two of those five wires.Those wires tell the controller the relationship of the wheel regarding the magnets , the electromagnet and the Hall Effect IC.
I disconnected the connector but mine had different color wires.
Note: FROM controller => brown,blue,black ||to|| gray,blue,yellow WIRE bundle.
***************************************
With the bundle CONNECTED: throttle. The motor turns FREELY. Squeeze right side brake caliper. The motor seizes. More throttle. NO MOTOR SPIN. Brake light stays LIT. Pumped the brake caliper two or three more times and motor is released (brake light turns out).
10 caliper tests:4 successful motor releases. Not good.
***************************************
With the bundle DISCONNECTED: throttle. The motor turns FREELY. Squeeze right brake caliper. NO friction on motor and it continues to spin. Brake light stays LIT when caliper released. Pumped the brake caliper two or three more times and the BRAKE LIGHT turns out. No change in motor spin.
10 caliper brake tests: 4 successful BRAKE LIGHT turn out. NO friction on the motor spin during ALL tests.
I'd really like to have brakes while on the street. LoL. Any other things I can do to test it out\fix it?
phoenix
You have located the problem .Try some plastic safe lubricant on the offending brake release button and cable.try isolating which brake gives the error .Thinker with the tension. Still would have a brake operable.
Thanks. Your suggestion gave me an idea once the instrument panel was off.
As i checked the tension right behind the right-hand caliper, I noticed TWO black leads coming directly off the caliper assembly. There is a THICK lead that must hold the actual brake tension cable. BUT the second lead (in the same area just closer to driver side of the instrument panel)is softer and thinner and probably houses electrical wiring. I looked closer and the housing has been actually PINCHED. Maybe getting pinched against the panel housing. Maybe it came that way from the factory.
I turned on the power to my bike and re-did my caliper tests. When the motor would seize and the brake light would stay LIT, I fiddled with that softer bundle (moving it this way and that way a little, no real science to it)and when I moved it into some random position, the light would turn OFF and the motor would again spin freely on throttle. Hmmm ....
That pinch might be the real problem. I decided to use electrical tape and TAPE DOWN that lead housing to the handle bar frame so it wouldn't 'move around' anymore. I RECONNECTED the bundle under the seat. I tried my tests again and NO PROBLEMS. I took it out on the road and aimed for every bump i knew was there, and NO PROBLEMS.
thank you all! We'll see about the commute tomorrow.
phoenix
Phoenix,
I'm glad you were able to pin down the problem. Happy riding,
Tom
You've seen their "manuals"... and you're surprised they get their words confused? ;)
To all,
I just wanna say that my Electrical problem has gone away, once I did what I mentioned above. No more stalled XB whenever I hit a bump. No seizing of the brakes when I use the brake caliper.
Thank you all for your help!
My commute is safe and I am indeed ridin' happy!
phoenix