I see that Wilderness Energy / Werelectrified are now claiming "greatly improved" on the 2008 kits.
The problem is they leave out the details of that claim. I suspect it's just a different controller but does anyone know for a fact? Did they perhaps change the motor or wheel?
In any case the price went up, a bit. So either the import costs have risen or the are indeed using more expensive parts.
It would be greatly improved if all the parts worked after the first ride. My first BD36 had a charger that never worked at all. Others report controllers that blew right away. Once you get a fully functioning bike together the WE stuff is quite reliable. But there is a history of stuff that perhaps couldn't take the bumps in shipping. From what I've heard, WE is trying hard to improve reliability, since warrantying stuff costs them money.
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36 volt sla schwinn beach cruiser
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Oh that makes me incredibly nervous.
Exepecting a BD36 kit any day now and it's secondhand, not a dealer.
I'm screwed if there is something wrong.
Sigh. Can't win.
(even if it does work I probably should pick up a cheap controller as a backup eh?
Like a 24v for $20 or so? All the other parts would work with it in theory right?)
If it is secondhand, then it probably is fine.
I have a 3 year old BD36 with more than 4,000 miles on it, and it is still working great. It is on a standard 26" mountain bike, and goes 26 mph with a small 37v lithium battery pack.
I know that WE has had different suppliers for the BD36 over the years, but if the new kit is as good or better than the best they have had in the past, then it is an excellent motor that will give years of dependable service.
Sorry about that, I should have added that my second kit has been perfect in every way and it is also from the old stock. I've had no problems with controllers even at 48 volts. My first kit just came with a bogus charger, and those are pretty cheap on ebay. I'm really happy with my BD36, happy enough to buy another one. I've become a big fan of brushed hubs since they pull like a mule and go fast without paying x5 prices. Range suffers since you are flying up a hill, so waddaya expect. Even if you spend a hundred on a new WE controller someday you are still getting similar enough performance to much more expensive stuff. For a replacement controller, if you need it, there are lots of options, but you may not need it. There are folks out there with years of use on WE kits. Any brushed controller will work. The hub is quite happy at 24,36, or 48 volts and some are running brushed even higher. You can expect a real world range of 6-10 miles depending on your speed and hills.
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36 volt sla schwinn beach cruiser
36 volt lifepo4 mongoose mtb
24 volt sla + nicad EV Global
Well it's unused but apparently from 2006. I'll find out soon enough. Was expecting it already but apparently delayed, sigh.
I knew the BD36 was less efficient (didn't realize quite how much) but only thing I could get my hands on for my very tiny budget. I worry about just how limited the range is. I have two major routes to handle and one is nearly completely flat but another has a major hill in the middle and the brushed will help with that.
I've read a 10a controller will limit how much power it sucks and extend the range so I may just try that if I can find one cheaply enough - that way I also have a backup. The question is if it will still be able to get over the one hill without shutting off. Only one way to find out.
Unfortunately LifePo4 is out of the question but I am hoping to possibly build a NiMH late this year out of RC 7.2v packs.
The BD36 that I have is only about 15% less efficient than a brushless motor with the same power. Maybe the reason that people feel the brushed motor is less efficient than that is because the BD36 has more torque and is faster than most brushless motors at the same voltage. If you don't accelerate faster or ride faster then the difference will only be about 15%. If I peddle on starts (but not once it is going) and keep my top speed at 20 mph, I can go about 18 miles on a 10Ah lithium ion pack. With jackrabbit starts and cruising speed of 26mph, the range goes down to 6-8 miles.
If you ever do need a spare controller, brushed controllers are available very cheap on eBay - they range between $10 and $35. I'd use a 20 amp controller with this motor, and extend the range by going easy on the throttle and by pedalling. A Cycle Analyst or other meter is one of the best ways to increase your range - sometimes easing up on the throttle just a tiny amount (and slowing the bike down a fraction of a mile-per-hour) can reduce the power consumption by several amps. Using a meter will help you train your riding habits to increase range - probably by 30% more range or more.
Uh oh...
Mine went that on 48V of SLA. I knew that the sag was bad, but, dang. Mine's going 30mph on 72V of SLA now (20" rim). I wonder what I'll do on the new lithium pack. O_o
Anyway, I wouldn't worry about it being secondhand. Mine was bought off another ES member and it works great, even at the voltage I'm running it at now. Brushed controllers are cheap and plentiful, so no worries there.
20A would be pretty conservative for this motor. I run mine at 30A and it stays pretty cool. icecube on the ES was running 50A for a while and it "survived" a 100A and what we suspect may have been a controller with no current limit.
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I don't think it is the battery. WE has had different suppliers for their BD36 motors. Some go about 20 mph at 36v, and some - like mine - go 26mph at 36v. Both motors are great, they are just wound differently.
I agree about the 30 amp controller, but if someone wanted to limit the performance to increase range, my suggestion was a 20 amp controller instead of 10 amp. Even if you increase range by going easy on the throttle, having the extra power when you need it makes the bike safer.
If you need more range, go slower. The reason my bd36 gets poor range is I max the throttle for the entire ride, and go 25 or faster. Brushed is not that much less efficient, but it is that much more powerfull. How far do you need to go, and is it hilly?
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36 volt sla schwinn beach cruiser
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24 volt sla + nicad EV Global
The heck? Never heard that before. Could throw a wrench in the works for my next project (dual motors). :/
I went with the 30A cause even then it's not the torqueyest of motors. If there are any hills at all you're going to either need more A or to do all the work, especially in a 26".
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Actually, that sounds like the brushed BD36 which can do 25mph vs the brushLESS BL36 which can only do 20mph. But the BL36 has greater range.
At some point they discontinued the BL36 but it's back for 2008. Perhaps that's the "greatly improved" bit and not the BD36. Maybe they replaced the controller - brushless controllers are far more complicated and expensive, at least so I've read.
I think link just has a smaller wheel. The 25 mph brushed hub is on a 26" wheel. I think maybe a mile or two less for the battery and maybe a mile or two less for the wheel. When I ran lead, my WE would go about 25-27 mph for about a mile. The next 4 miles would be at about 22mph, after that, I was glad to just be rolling. With the ping battery I get about 24 mph for 18 miles. Links voltage sag may be kicking in at about where the driveway meets the street.
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36 volt sla schwinn beach cruiser
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24 volt sla + nicad EV Global
Perhaps! I never did test the speed at 36V/26", as I immediately "upgraded" to 48V.
Heh. My voltage sag kicks in when I plug the controller in. :P
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Here is a thread from power-assist where we talked about a change in manufacturer of the BD36 in 2006:
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/power-assist/message/52148
The previous post linked to a thread about the change in motors. Mine are both the new motor,post 2007, that says AO-TE-MA on the cover. It goes 25mph at 36 volts and has the 35 amp controller. Anybody got a 2008 yet? Did they change motors again? My first one, bought from 2007 stock from Werelectrified has a switch on the controller. My second one, still unridden and bought from batteryspace, has a key switch with a tinfoil key. Is that one a 2008? I paid a 2007 price for it.
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36 volt sla schwinn beach cruiser
36 volt lifepo4 mongoose mtb
24 volt sla + nicad EV Global
That link with the change in motors was very educational, thanks!
The one coming to me (and showing up by today I hope, USPS is SLOW!!!)
was bought supposedly in late 2006 and never installed.
So there is a 50/50 chance I got the old one.
I'll look for any wording on the motor (and weigh it) and I'll open the controller to inspect the caps and fets.
Their idea of "improved" may be faster flat speed + distance with less windings vs. torque based on more windings on the old motors?
BTW, in the process of researching the W.E. kit and company I discovered a great deal of interesting things about the owner "Ron Berrett" (nothing bad, just interesting). But I'll save that for a rainy day ;)
Hey guess what just arrived in the mail!
My "new" (old but unused) BD36
Based on the inspection date on the charger this is from late 2006.
The wheel (dayum this is heavy and you don't expect the spoked to be quite that thick - doesn't look like bike spokes) has AOTEMA in a oval with chinese letters on it.
My controller is very tiny, almost missed it and thought it was missing. It has a micro key-lock on it, very silly like a luggage key. No other lights or indicators.
I am about to open it for inspection...
Same controller as on my second kit from batteryspace. How about that tinfoil key. Chucking that may be one of the improvements. But it runs as fast as my other one, and takes 48 volts the same too. I have some new info, the controller on the bl kit went from 30 amps to 50, increasing the wattage of the bl and it's speed, at the cost of range of course. So i think that is the big improvement. The bd works so well the only improvement I could see needing is 48 volt 50 amp controller and lighted throttle. When you overvolt the 36 volt throttle, you lose the low battery light.
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36 volt sla schwinn beach cruiser
36 volt lifepo4 mongoose mtb
24 volt sla + nicad EV Global
Here's the motor stamp with AOTEMA
Wheel with motor weighs 13 pounds. Whoa.
My old wheel is too light to even weigh so I assume it's less than 1 pound.
The controller has two caps inside that say 63v so that's good.
But it looks like I got two chargers instead of the wiring harness and battery bag. Apparently the seller says another person had the exact same problem.
I doubt Wilderness Energy will honor replacing the charger with the bag and wires but I guess I can ask.
Has anyone taken apart the thumb controller?
I'd like to greatly soften the spring return.
That's insanely hard pressure.
Maybe I can snip some of the spring length.
I completely removed the spring.
Put some rubber pads in to add a bit of friction.
Now I can just set any speed I want, and it stays there.
My thumb was getting sore from holding the spring.
After bumping up my BD36 to 48v and realizing I only get 26-28mph max, I sadly got the slower BD36, oh well.
Does this mean it has more coils and could take hills better?
Ironically I have virtually no hills on my rides.
Dogman, is the controller with the little key switch a 35a controller?
That's the one I have. It's the older kit.
I belive it is the 35 amp controller, I have two, one with key switch and one with a rocker switch, and they are identical exept for the switch. I'm not so sure they changed the BD controller, but they definitely changed the BL controller to a 50 amp.
One thing I have learned about the Brushed motors is that the brushes can be timed, and if off a little, they will run slower and hotter. One of my motors was slower, on either controller, and it was the one that melted down last summer. I think you are only about 1 mph slower than you should be, or just about right if running sla's at 48v. But if you feel like a lot of fiddling about, you might try different timing adjustments. It's a pain, you have to open the motor, and rotate the brush holder in the slotted screw holes, put it all back together, and see if it runs on less amps, if you have a meter, or just faster at no load. Take it back apart, try another spot, test, take apart, test, etc, till you get to where it runs best.
I belive that if your motor says aotema, that is the newer motor at least. The really old ones don't say aotema on them. But you may have a timing issue, on my slow motor, I only got 22-23 mph out of it, while the other does 24-25.
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36 volt sla schwinn beach cruiser
36 volt lifepo4 mongoose mtb
24 volt sla + nicad EV Global