XM-3500Li Registration Question for CA

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rossasaurus
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XM-3500Li Registration Question for CA

Well, I spent a few hours at the DMV today...what joy.
I had to take my written, register the /motorized bicycle/motor driven cycle/scooter/motorcycle/whatchamacallit.

The kind lady behind the counter was befuddled as to what it was and went for a consult three or four times and finally came back telling me I'd have to bring it in for them to check VIN and look at it to determine emissions!
OMG! DMV doesn't get it yet. OK, not really surprised.

Anyway, I kept hinting that it probably should be a motorcycle(so I could ride in 45mph+ zones), and she kept saying, moped, moped, and I kept saying no pedals, no pedals, scooter, motorcycle, no-ped.
Alas, repetition failed me; my hypnotistic career is over, I guess.

So, the question is; has anyone registered a 3500 successfully in California and what did yours end-up being clasified as?
Title says Motor Driven Cycle.
I only disclosed it was electric when she cornered me with questions.
I'm know I DON'T want it clasified as a motorized bicycle(under 30mph), and I'm hesitant to mention to them it'll almost do 50mph.
What's the collective wisdom out there.
I go back in Friday A.M.
It can only be a Motorcycle or a Motor-Driven cycle(<149cc) from my read of the definitions.

R

reikiman
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Re: XM-3500Li Registration Question for CA

Why not be straight with them? In the CA Vehicle Code it says "electric" several times related to motorcycles, and the XM-3500 clearly falls in the classification of electric motorcycle. It's all in the vehicle code, there's no mystery about it.

audiophil2
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Re: XM-3500Li Registration Question for CA

CA Vehicle Code:

400. (a) A "motorcycle" is any motor vehicle having a seat or saddle for the use of the rider, designed to travel on not more than three wheels in contact with the ground, and weighing less than 1,500 pounds.

(b) A motor vehicle that has four wheels in contact with the ground, two of which are a functional part of a sidecar, is a motorcycle if the vehicle otherwise comes within the definition of subdivision (a).

(c) A motor vehicle that is electrically powered, has a maximum speed of 45 miles per hour, and weighs less than 2,500 pounds, is a motorcycle if the vehicle otherwise comes within the definition of subdivision (a).

rossasaurus
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Re: XM-3500Li Registration Question for CA

Hi David, Phil,
Well I got registered today, almost.
The VIN verification went smashingly well, and the inspector even expressed interest in a scoot for his sister.
He asked lots of questions about the e-scooters, and they 'oughta just let him run the place.
I once again sweated through the "this is a moped" from the DMV staff at the counter. I got the impression they just wanted me to go away ;)
Many consults later(45 mins), I'm told it's a "Motor Scooter", which I take to mean "Motorized Scooter", even though it does not have "...the ability to be powered by human propulsion", not easily anyway. OK, better than 'moped'. Note on my temp permit; Stay off freeways. Don't worry, I wouldn't think of it!
That's what I had been worried about; Motorcycles...can be electrically powered with max speed of 45mph.
And Scooter must be human propell-able, ie. pedals, so it's not technically within either category, is it; too fast and no pedals. But, progress made.

Once past that hurdle, I was asked for the "Engine Number", so we went out to look on the hub motor...no numbah. So, I've been referred to the CHP for an apointment for them to assign an Engine Number, Sept. 4th.
She gave me a one month permit for an "MS", Motor Scooter, and I went off and rode about town for a while, great fun. This really is a good ride for around-town driving.
I realized today that this 'package', the 3500, is probably maxed-out in terms of speed for chassis/weight/configuration; that is, I wouldn't really want it to go much faster than 50mph; OK, maybe for quick passes, but not sustained travel. I shudder to think of hitting a bump or pothole at 55 on these...
On the other hand, perhaps some suspension mods will sweeten it up.

It sucks that others going in for registration will meet with a similar and inconsistent process and could easily end-up getting mis-categorized. I still think it falls in "Motor Driven Cycle", but I don't really care any more, at least I'm nearly legal.

The lesson here I think is to push our state legislators to clean up this mess and encourage thm to write streamlined, consistent code for licensing and categorizing Electric Vehicles.
I mentioned to the DMV that they would be seeing lots more EV's at their counters before too long.

Anyone have experience with the CHP Engine Number hurdle?

cheers,
R

pchilds
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Re: XM-3500Li Registration Question for CA

IMO, an electric motor is not an engine, luckily EVTA put a number on the electric motor, that is no longer on my scooter.:)

Philip
2011 Nissan Leaf SL

jdh2550_1
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Re: XM-3500Li Registration Question for CA

The lesson here I think is to push our state legislators to clean up this mess and encourage thm to write streamlined, consistent code for licensing and categorizing Electric Vehicles.
I mentioned to the DMV that they would be seeing lots more EV's at their counters before too long.

Yeah, this is the right way to go. I suggest contacting your local senator or congress person.

Anyone have experience with the CHP Engine Number hurdle?

Man - that's a new one on me! Does CHP = California Highway Patrol? Are they going to just basically satisfy themselves that it's not a stolen motor and then issue you a number? Will they stamp it on the motor casing?

Sorry you're having a hard time with this. My approach has been "well it's like a 150cc gas bike" and the counter staff have been happy with that. I know my approach is "shaky" but as Ross shows the whole system is a mess...

Oh well, such is the life on the leading edge...

John H. Founder of Current Motor Company - opinions on this site belong to me; not to my employer
Remember: " 'lectric for local. diesel for distance" - JTH, Amp Bros || "No Gas.

audiophil2
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Re: XM-3500Li Registration Question for CA

What will the CHP appointment entail? If you just need a CHP LEO to assess the bike then I may be able to have a patrolman that would be "friendly" to our cause rate it for you. He patrols in Sonoma county and I could have him drive out to your place if you like or meet you somewhere in Santa Rosa.

kringle777
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Re: XM-3500Li Registration Question for CA

I ended up registering my XM-2000 in CA as a moped by mail. The DMV wanted two VIN tags, which I didn't have. The wanted to look at the engine block too, and were totally befuddled by the hub motor. They ended up referring me to the Highway Patrol for the assessment and VIN tag replacement, but that was too much trouble. Got my plates by mail. Never been stopped, never been busted, gone 2000 KM on it at speeds up to 45 MPH, so we're really in the same boat.

kringle777
Red XM-2000
Moss Green "Charger" ebike
Sacramento, CA

rossasaurus
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Re: XM-3500Li Registration Question for CA

Phil,
Thanks for the offer.
DMV directed me to the local office to "Assign an Engine Number", so I'll trust that's what they're actually going to do.
When I made my appointment, I told the guy at the local CHP(yes, Cal Highway Patrol) office that it was for an electric hub motor and it didn't seem to phase him, so I'm hoping they'll just slap a sticker on, or gently imprint a number on the motor.
Who knows, maybe they'll just note it on the title.
Jeez, I didn't even know you could register by mail; might be the way to go on these for now.
I think in a year this won't be an issue; it seemed to bubble-up to the local manager at DMV when I was there, so he is aware of the issue and would ostensibly mention it to his mother superior, etc, etc.

R

rossasaurus
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Re: XM-3500Li Registration Question for CA

Well, I spent.....1-1/2 hours at the CHP office today.
We looked the motor over together.
First they suggested I remove and crack open the motor to look for a serial number, horror of horrors, which I suggested was not my idea of fun.
I called Xtreme to see if they knew of a number anywhere on the hub motors; no, don't know.

At some point I asked "if we know for sure there's no number inside, what happens?", he said "well, I'd just stamp a number on it." bingo. I waited a few minutes, got on the phone to Xtreme again, then told the officer there was definitely no number to be found inside the hub motor.
He went inside for a long time and emerged saying he was awaiting a call-back from Xtreme Tech Support to verify.
Went back in and after a while called me in to fill-in some forms. Once done, we went out with the stamp kit and issued a new "Engine" number.

I liked that the officer was going to discuss the issue with Xtreme so they can start having these numbered at the factory. I also suggested to Xtreme that they might want to get this numbering in place before they sell lotsa these things or the CHP's gonna HATE seeing these scoots pull up.

He mentioned that most or all the electric mopeds they've seen have had serial numbers on their motors.

After another 1.5 hours at DMV, and yet another fee, I'm legal on my 3500! whoo hoo.

Ross

GrooveConnection
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Re: XM-3500Li Registration Question for CA

Yeah!

Welcome to the road! May you get all the fun and good use out of that baby!
Another rider of renewable energy...you go!!

GC

Peace

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