E-Fun or Mountain Chen

Per,

Good luck in your endeavor! You have certainly narrowed it down to the two major 'players' in the business right now. There are pros and cons to both of them, and I am not sure I could make that call right now. I have some small experience dealing with Mountain Chen directly and I will tell you that he voluntarily identified and replaced a bad component rather than just waiting to see if it would break.

I would recommend working with either a distributor or importer to help expedite your orders and support needs. Sure, it adds an additional expense, but I think it is worth it.

Cheers!

Hi Per,at this very moment I am in dispute with Mountain Chen, briefly I bought a container full off Mountain Chen, out of 22, sold 16, of which six have had major problems, 4 motors, 5 controllers, 1 complete set batteries. Also had to reposition every front battery on all machines because seat/box steel bracket had been bolted down across the terminals.
All of this I could have handled if I had any backup from the factory,I have asked for Manuel/schematics/wiring diagrams and only got a photo of parts laid out on the floor.
I have cannibalized 4 scoots for parts and to-day offered to PURCHASE replacement motors etc,however Mountains reply a couple of hours ago was that he would only supply the parts if I order another container load.
Mountain seems to think that once he has sold you the machines his part stops he doesnt seem to under stand 'after sales service'
I have no knowledge of his brother but I am about to Email him to see if I can buy parts off him without strings.
Regards,Bill Hill.

Hi Per,

I'm going through the exact same decision making process at the moment. From my perspective E-Rider (Mountain Chen) has the slightly better product offering in the "larger" version (the XM-3500Li) whereas it seems pretty close at the smaller version (XM-3000).

On the one hand this is not the first time I've heard "horror" stories about Mountain Chen. However, on the other hand he is responsive to emails before the sale (slightly more so than E-Fun (but the difference is slight)).

Fenman - were your bikes branded "ERATO"? I'm not trying to make excuses for lack of "after sales service" but folks should note that the new bikes use different motors and controllers.

However - I'm also not saying that the new bikes aren't without issues. However, I've yet to hear of any manufacturer (even the mighty Vectrix) who haven't had any issues.

At the moment my partners and I are leaning towards Mountian Chen's products - at least as a starting point.

One thing I think we can all agree on is "caveat emptor"!

Good luck - perhaps we can share experiences? Send me a private message on this forum or contact me via my website below.

Yes I would normally agree 'buyer beware' but I would think that any modern manufacturer would realize that backing up his product and helping his dealers was as important as selling it in the first place, If you are thinking of dealing with Mountain, whether he is Erato (which mine are labeled) or a possibly more reliable later model (you have only his word that its more reliable) If he refuses to let you have spare parts until you place another order then you really do need to 'caveat emptier'.Also there can be no excuse for not supplying schematics, wiring diagrams etc.
I have just added a dead set of batteries to the list,bikes done less than 500 miles,customer really pissed,will keep me busy tomorrow.

Removed at Mountain Chens request.

(you have only his word that its more reliable)

Actually I have the bike - it's the XM-3000, but, ummm, errr, well mine is in pieces on the garage floor right now. Trying to track down an intermittent loss of response from the throttle. Like all new models it seems to be suffering from a certain amount of gremlins. It's early days yet - I've sold 14 of these. 12 have been delivered and 3 have motor/controller/throttle issues - that's not a very good batting average, but it's not diabolical either. However I want to get on top of this in case it turns out that there's a common failure point that a little bit of preventative maintenance can address. At the moment though I still consider it a reasonable bike.

I do actually agree with you - Mountain Chen would do better to offer better after sales support. However, I just wanted to let Per know that despite the challenges of working with Chen it remains the fact that at present he has the most enticing product. Just like you say - it's good but he could do better. I'd sure like to see proper wiring diagrams, schematics and controller details. However, he seems to be selling lots of bikes the way he's operating now so he may not see the incentive of keeping old parts in stock or making sure new parts fit old models. I'm not saying that's the right approach - but I would imagine that at the moment he sees his priority as cranking out bikes.

I'm curious - (a) when did you purchase the bikes? (b) what manufacturing date is stamped on the VIN? (c) what brand are the batteries? (d) do the batteries have any age identifiers (e.g. a QC sticker with a date on it)? My guess is that you have old Electier batteries - the same that the XM-2000 shipped with - mine didn't last 500 miles. However, I killed them myself. There's every chance your customer killed his batteries as well.

Anyway, good luck! We need more committed EV dealers.

I must confess that being able to talk on VisV has lowered my stress levels remarkably.
I'm 70 years old,not short of a bob or two,my other interest is flying vintage aircraft which I have three, which is like standing on a windy hillside tearing up banknotes.
My machines were made 2007-01/02 and delivered july 07, all have E-rider embossed on the motors,the delivery note states 'Greensaver battery'.
The point is that you, me and others are doing the ongoing development and testing of these machines,I dont object to this, I find it interesting but any one thinking of buying from Mountain should be aware of this fact plus they will not receive any assistance from the factory.
One of my machines developed a noise like a stick hitting spokes,Mountains answer 'look for loose wires or is the brake pad hitting the disc, Doer I didnt think of that (sarcasm) I now know its a Hall problem.
The other thing that I would like to clarify, isn't consumer testing Illegal in the US?
Why did I go into this? well for the first time in a century we have a chance of getting out of the clutches of the Mega Corps and their filling station/infrastructure. Few people realize that a enormous battle is starting between the Corporations that want to kill of the battery powered vehicle and its independence, in favour of liquid hydrogen/methan/methonal/fuel cell, anything to keep the consumer tied into the established system,already in the UK there are liquid hydrogen pumps being placed on experimental forecourts, governments will soon realize that they could loose control of fuel supplies,unless you and me can get Mountain Chen to get his act together.
Seriously If we all sing from the same song sheet the Chinese manufacturers will have to respond,two former Erato dealers here in UK now do E-Max as is a dealer in Finland and Switzerland.
Well I'm off to cannibalize a bike and drive round trip 60 miles to change a set of batteries (whats with the awful double sided sticky tape?)
Regards,Bill Hill.

Removed by Fenman at Mountain Chen Request.

Removed by Fenman at Mountain Chen Request.

Uh, oh.

Also had to reposition every front battery on all machines because seat/box steel bracket had been bolted down across the terminals.

Priceless!

Mr. Mik

Also had to reposition every front battery on all machines because seat/box steel bracket had been bolted down across the terminals.

pls forget the sad story of old Erato.

Now both split factories with new plant,new motor and new technology....

Anyway,we will compensate you

I have just agreed the purchase of one of Fenman's Eratos. I spoke with him on the phone this morning, and I must say what a polite and honest person he is. Fenman is giving me a 12 month warranty. But in order to do this, he must have back-up from the supplier, who it appears is Mountain Chen. I will also be wanting the service and wiring info, so I can do my own repairs after the warranty expires. So 'come on' Mr Chen. Please look after dealers like Fenman (Bill Hill), so he can look after his customers...like me!

BTW...Bill...Can't wait for Saturday...Delivery Day!

For what this is worth and as I reported before, Mountain willing shipped a replacement controller to replace one with a known error BEFORE I even rode the bike...and he has agreed to send me a upgrade to my 3500Li as well to help out with the top speed (this is an upgrade already present on the next shipment arriving soon). I know others have had some trouble with him in the past, and I have been pensive as well. He has been very professional with me as well. So far, he has shown that he is trying to take his business and the support of his products a step up with us.

I will report back when the upgrade actually arrives to confirm his follow-through.

Hi...just an update about my ERATO purchased from Fenman. In a word...BRILLIANT!! So far this has been the best buy I've ever made. Been riding it every day to and from work for 7 weeks without a single hitch. My petrol saving is about £130 to date. The bike cost me £750 'on the road', so it will pay for itself well within a year, then it's all bunce! The speedo displays a top speed of 34 MPH on the flat, and only drops to 32 MPH on quite steep and long hills, and thats at the end of my journey, which is about 11 miles each way. I havn't tested the max range, and doubt I will, but the battery indicater is still at max on the flat roads after the 11 miles, though drops to 'mid-green' on the final long hill. I've added a 'top-box', and geared up with the 'hi-viz' jacket and strides, and so far only 2 car drivers have tried to kill me. I managed to stay alive, but they'll be back!!

P.S. I suspect the speedo is reading a tad high!

Hi Bill,

Like you, I was (still am) interested in distributing Mountain Chen's scooters in the UK.
Luckily for me, unlike you, I started with an order for just one scooter so I could see the build quality and test whether the claimed performance was actually there.
After a very long delay, during which time, like you, I was beginning to think I'd been scammed, the bike arrived.
At first I was thrilled with it.
Sadly, after just a few weeks, the throttle broke internally - one of the 2 magnets snapped off. I made a temporary fix with glue & asked Mr Chen for a replacement. All he did was refer me to another UK seller (may even be you) to buy one but they had none in stock.
Worse was to come though - after a few months the range was becoming seriously compromised. As of today, the maximum range from a full charge is under 5 miles!
After much diagnosis, testing various things suggested by Mountain Chen, it became clear that the batteries have failed.
These batteries were meant to be Greensaver brand. The reason given for the extreme delay in shipping was that Mr Chen was waiting for the latest version of Greensaver to become available. After querying why my batteries were plain white, unbranded & emailing pics to Mr Chen, he tells me they are not Greensaver at all and if I order a full container of scooters he'll let me have a replacement set of batteries for half price!
I never did get a replacement throttle either - I now keep tools and superglue on board so I can fix the throttle whenever it decides to break again. I usually get a few weeks between fixes.
If Mr Chen were based here in the UK I would have sued him before now but sadly I can't touch him in China.
As others have said before me, Mountain Chen has no concept of customer service.
Had he replaced my broken throttle without quibble I would have gone ahead and ordered a container full of scooters. I'm glad I didn't as I'm guessing I'd have been replacing battery packs out of my own pocket by now.
Pete Sandford

Hi Pete,

how many km have you done on your bike?
what service life did you expect (or was advertised?) for your batteries?
unfortunately lead acid batteries without BMS dont last all that long, its a problem not just limited to mountains bikes.
the batteries on my own bikes (original emax) failed after 4000km and 1500km.

Matt

Hi Matt,

The bike has now done 1900km.
By the time the bike was 8 months old it had done only about 900km and by then the range available had fallen to about 12 miles from the 35 miles it was managing when new.
I've only once taken it that far, just to make sure it would make the claimed distance. Other than that, it's been short trips to the bank, post office etc with a plug-in after each trip.
I seem to recall the batteries being claimed to have a life of 1000 cycles but I'd have to look out the original correspondence with Mr Chen to be 100% sure on that.
That would have meant around 3 years of life in the batteries.

I'm now faced with either getting rid of the scoot or buying a new set of batteries.
That will mean that I'd have been far better off just buying a petrol scooter.
Actually, I'd even have been better off driving a car and paying for petrol for that!

When the real motivation for driving electric is the prospect of saving money, with products like this I don't expect the EV market to take off anytime soon!

Maybe if Mr Chen had fitted the genuine Greensaver batteries he promised, the outcome may have been different. I'll never know unless I shell out for a set myself.

Pete

Dear Pete:

During end of 2006 and middle of 2007,Greensaver have no output of battery because they were update 2nd generation SP-27 batteries. You may check with www.greensaver.cn

But you pushed me on delivery so much at that time,I had to use the Jiangmen Guineng battery who was the same pattern owner of silicon battery. I had no choice at that period.

It is really pity to know such bad result of battery.

Anyway,that was old Erato story in Shanghai,just forget it.

Hi Matt,

The bike has now done 1900km.
By the time the bike was 8 months old it had done only about 900km and by then the range available had fallen to about 12 miles from the 35 miles it was managing when new.
I've only once taken it that far, just to make sure it would make the claimed distance. Other than that, it's been short trips to the bank, post office etc with a plug-in after each trip.
I seem to recall the batteries being claimed to have a life of 1000 cycles but I'd have to look out the original correspondence with Mr Chen to be 100% sure on that.
That would have meant around 3 years of life in the batteries.

I'm now faced with either getting rid of the scoot or buying a new set of batteries.
That will mean that I'd have been far better off just buying a petrol scooter.
Actually, I'd even have been better off driving a car and paying for petrol for that!

When the real motivation for driving electric is the prospect of saving money, with products like this I don't expect the EV market to take off anytime soon!

Maybe if Mr Chen had fitted the genuine Greensaver batteries he promised, the outcome may have been different. I'll never know unless I shell out for a set myself.

Pete

I pushed you???

I paid for this sample in October and it was supposed to be shipped in early November.

On November 7th I asked:
I'm just wondering if our sample will be leaving this week?

Mr Chen replied:
Sorry about the delay because we just got the feeback from clients that some defect points on controller.
We are improving and all production is delay !
Mountain chen

On November 16th I asked:
I just wondered if there is any more news about my sample scooter?

Mr Chen replied:
Sorry for delay in sample sending.
Our main supplier,The silicon power battery manufacturer now is update 38AH12V to be 45AH12V capacity.It is very important for battery life and range.So I put off the shipment waiting for new battery.Pls give me extra several days.
Mountain chen

On November 26th I asked:
Ten more days have passed - do you have any more news for me?

Mr Chen replied:
Sample are almost ready,
But we are waiting for the 2nd generation battery from www.greensaver.cn
Pls wait a few more days.
Mountain chen

On December 4th I asked:
Do you expect to be able to ship the sample this week?

Mr Chen replied:
I know that you are eager to get samples.But now it is not the season. Don't worry.the last always the best.
You know that the heart of EV is battery,without silicon battery,this scooter can't enbody its avantage.
Mountain chen

On December 24th, Mr Chen wrote:

Merry christmas !
Your sample scooter is almost ready except for the battery...

But www.greensaver.cn have come out 2nd generation battery which would increase a lot of life cycles because they modify the new plate..... The bulk production of new battery would delivery to me end of this month. Any suspect,you may call president Wang of Greensaver to confirm the delay. whose cell phone is 13586889988
Battery is heart of EV,we better wait for new version battery.

Sorry for inconvenience.
Mountain chen

On January 10th we were told:

Battery will arrive on Jan 16.
We will dispatch your sample as soon as we get battery !
Mountain chen

On January 18th:

Yes,battery arrived ,assembly would be finished next week and ship to you asap.
Sorry for delay!
Mountain chen

On January 26th the scooter finally left for the shipping port.

So, having been told we were getting Greensaver batteries - which were portrayed as better than any others by Mr Chen - is it any wonder that I was furious to discover (when my batteries failed) that I'd been sent some other unknown brand with no word or explanation from Mountain Chen!!

It is easy for Mr Chen to say 'just forget it' but that doesn't help me, stuck with a scooter whose range is down to less than 5 miles!!

Dear Pete:

During end of 2006 and middle of 2007,Greensaver have no output of battery because they were update 2nd generation SP-27 batteries. You may check with www.greensaver.cn

But you pushed me on delivery so much at that time,I had to use the Jiangmen Guineng battery who was the same pattern owner of silicon battery. I had no choice at that period.

It is really pity to know such bad result of battery.

Anyway,that was old Erato story in Shanghai,just forget it.

Pete,pls stop,your throttle have been sent today !

After reading several threads on this forum regarding Mountain Chen and his products I see no reason that anyone should ever feel comfortable buying one of his products. He has made false claims as to the specifications of the products (the XM3500i in particular) and does not seem to have any support for after the sale. How can you have any confidence that you can use the scooter when you need it. I've seen nothing but excuses and we knew about that problem before we shipped it.

I have some experience with Chinese gas powered scooters, quality and support issues have been a problem there too but at least it seems that those manufacturers are now realizing that they have to offer after the sale support if they want to continue to have a market to sale to. Mr Chen, you need to come to that realization too. IF you do not support your distributors they can not support the customer and everybody will lose in the end.

We always keep very good after sale service for regular importers such as Xtreme and other European buyers.We shipped a lot of parts with regular containers.

For individual importer,we also provide free parts if he pay the freight costs.

We always keep very good after sale service for regular importers such as Xtreme and other European buyers.We shipped a lot of parts with regular containers.

For individual importer,we also provide free parts if he pay the freight costs.

I´ll take this over the phone instead....

Hi medman,

After reading several threads on this forum regarding Mountain Chen and his products I see no reason that anyone should ever feel comfortable buying one of his products.

I can see how you could come to that conclusion. However, I respectfully disagree. Yes, I sell his product (imported by X-Treme) - but look at my history and see I have a reasonable reputation for honesty.

My thoughts:
1) It's very different being a consumer of a bike imported by X-Treme or another importer than attempting to set up your own import business.
2) If you're a consumer it would be better to look at consumer's experiences rather than direct dealing with the factory (that's why an importer charges more because he handles those issues among others)
3) If you're considering becoming a dealer then absolutely look at both consumers and dealers posts

Also, don't throw the baby out with the bath water. From my perspective I am disappointed with the XM-3500Li but very satisfied with the XM-3000. If the next generation of the XM-3500Li can be improved by the amount my XM-3000 is better than my XM-2000 then I think it will be a far more reasonable product for a wider audience of people. For folks prepared to "tinker" the XM-3500Li is not a bad starting point when compared to what else is available.

Just my 2 cents worth - to offer a counterpoint to your negative impression and to highlight that Chen is the factory and not the importer or the dealer. These may seem like minor distinctions to you, but I believe they are not minor and in fact a major part of the decision making process.

All the best,
John H.

I'm a new user in Vis For Voltage, and very good webiste. Sorry for my bad english, but i am looking for help, about Moutain Chen business.
We are a little company, in France, and we sell electric scooters. We find the new VK2008 (3500Li) in many forums and we decided to test it before buying a container.

We ask Moutain Chen specifications, delivery time, warranty,... and you bought one scooter and one battery sample, to make tests.
It was... in July, 2008. Moutain Chen as said we will receive it in August. We are always waiting for his response...

Many emails, many "pushes", like he said, and many times "we have'nt receive your payment", "ok, we receive it", "our factory's changing", "too many clients", "we send it", "it will be sent".

Moutain Chen is'nt serious : one advice : FORGET HIM if you want good relationship in your business or don't want to spend your time to write losted emails.
Hope i'm in error... but i'm always waiting for my products... in 2010 perhaps ?

I'm a new user in Vis For Voltage, and very good webiste. Sorry for my bad english, but i am looking for help, about Moutain Chen business.
We are a little company, in France, and we sell electric scooters. We find the new VK2008 (3500Li) in many forums and we decided to test it before buying a container.

We ask Moutain Chen specifications, delivery time, warranty,... and you bought one scooter and one battery sample, to make tests.
It was... in July, 2008. Moutain Chen as said we will receive it in August. We are always waiting for his response...

Many emails, many "pushes", like he said, and many times "we have'nt receive your payment", "ok, we receive it", "our factory's changing", "too many clients", "we send it", "it will be sent".

Moutain Chen is'nt serious : one advice : FORGET HIM if you want good relationship in your business or don't want to spend your time to write losted emails.
Hope i'm in error... but i'm always waiting for my products... in 2010 perhaps ?

Mountain has said it crystal clear (above) for any would be importer. If you are a regular big importer, he has now learned from previous mistakes and gives after-sales support. If you're a small guy or buy one sampple to see what the product is really like, he cajoles you to buy a container and quotes every reference under the sun. If your samples had serious faults as one of my mopeds and two of my quads had, he gets bored with you and DID NOT send on replacement parts to us despite many many pleas. I have many many emails where I asked for replacement parts and wiring diagrams and got NOTHING. Sorry, I did get repeated requests for container orders. Basically, he wiped his boots on me and I don't forget such damage easily. I had to rewire quads, re-fit DC_DC converters, re-fit non-waterproof controllers (??). No support extended, just excuses. That was last year, please, etc. 100% BAD approach.

Every business has teething problems and that includes even the major car manufacturers. Every company can rush a product out and regret it. I love Citroens, so I understand that many products improve as production goes on!! But where an importer's support requests are ignored, that is plain unethical.

I have no experience of the current range of Chen bikes. They seem good according to dealers and consumers here. I do have long-term experience of communicating with Mountain Chen starting in mid-2005 and I found it the least satisfying relationship I have ever had with any potential supplier. I found eFun very communicative before the sale also but I don't forget either that they were just as much a part of the botched Erato that financially damaged me and mine.

However, any potential buyer (as against an importer / dealer) should first and foremost trust the knowledge and integrity of their own dealer, as JohnH says. He is 100% correct. He and other dealers on here have proven their mettle, have found fixes before the manufacturers knew about the problems (due to a lack of real world testing usually, in my view), have supported their customers fully and are highly transparent and trusted individuals. I've always said that, at the price, the products I imported were 90% good. The lack of support was just gut-wrenching, that's all.

Other than that, I've personally tested the Kasea ZE-2000 and the e-max 110s www.e-max-ltd.com and both are also excellent machines. The emax is a class apart from the usual scooters. Its in Vectrix territory in terms of build quality and innovation, although its not as nippy as the Kasea. Much more solid ride though and highly waterproof for a scooter!! The Kasea was a serious bargain and I rate it as a solid performer also.

Ok,Cyrille,we will ship your sample next week.

too busy on container orders and it seems that we have to stop receiving sample order....

Mountain, many times over a period of months I requested spare parts but never received them. I asked you so many times by email for a speedometer/voltmeter, as the 4000w quad had none when it was delivered. Just a gaping hole?

I was also asked to contact another reseller / dealer along with a multitude of excuses. You said earlier in this thread that you would be compensating William Hill for his many defective units and parts.

I was also badly misled on battery cycles in many emails.

Will you now be compensating mine or at least forwarding the required parts to me FOC?

Like you , I'd like to forget Shanghai also. In fact, a labotomy would be nice. Its seems the squeaky wheels get the grease. So perhaps you can PM me about my well overdue parts Mountain.

Pete,pls stop,your throttle have been sent today !

Yet more lies from Mountain Chen .... the throttle was never sent and repeated requests for one to be sent have gone unheeded.

Next week I will be building a website dedicated to publishing the truth about Mr Mountain Chen, his lies and his total lack of customer service.
I will also be making a video demonstrating the poor build quality of his product and showing how the range of our sample scooter is down to just 5km on a full charge!

I can honestly say, and prove, that I have encountered more lies than truth from Mountain Chen. Also attempting to blacken the name of eFun. All with email proof of course.

In these days of sustainability, I would like to think that the person I do business with, or buy a product from, is one with whom I could have a sustainable relationship. Lies don't make for a long-term relationship. Mileage claims have never been correct for the Mountain Chen vehicles. Constantly revised and excuses made. Similarly, batteries have not been up to par. If I had known I was buying pre-production models, I'd have insisted on taking shares in your company Mountain Chen.
There is very little honesty among manufacturers, particularly ones who are sweating due to depleting funds or shareholder pressure. The current low oil prices won't help. I have been spun many lies and 'forward-looking statements in my time. I had thought that manufacturers would have more vision but no. You cannot make a silk purse out of some sow's ears.
I will say, hand on my heart, that the current e-max operation, (without Tomas Gruebel incidentally, who has departed now) may indeed be among the most honest of the operations out there; both in terms of realistic product specifications and minor recalls and consequent improvements. In other words, a company committed to a brand value future. Vectrix also, as a whole, are backing up their network as well as they can. That is to be respected.

I have begged Mountain Chen to stop emailing me with his dross. I am hopeful that on reading this, he will finally understand that I bear him no goodwill whatsoever. Not because of his products. They're not bad. Sometimes. But because of his word as a business-man. It makes a mockery of what we are taught to respect about Chinese business etiquette. So much for long-term business vision Mountain. How are your bikes doing in Norway incidentally? I dare you answer that directly here . . .