2stroke hybrid

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sam_uk
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Last seen: 14 years 6 months ago
Joined: Thursday, March 19, 2009 - 07:59
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2stroke hybrid

Hi I want to build a hybrid that I can use for day to day runs around town, but that will take me on a monthly trip of 160 miles (80 there 80 back) in comparative comfort.

I am thinking of a tiny 2 stroke generator and electric power. Obviously I want to run the horrible noisy, polluting 2stroke for as short a time as possible, so the speed of the charge is crucial to me..

For day to day use the generator and chargers would be left at home and I would use human/electric power only..

A tentatative shopping list would be;

Vehicle
19kg £600 tornado trike
http://www.kmxkarts.co.uk/models/tornado/

Sheet of polycarbonate to make one of these
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=covLB421trY&feature=related

2 Stroke Generator system
(2.75kg)Alternator £55 http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Denso-Performance-Light-weight-Motorsport-Alternator_W0QQitemZ120385772409QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_CarsParts_...

And £50 2kg 26cc model car engine
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/FG-MCD-ZENOAH-23CC-ENGINE-PULL-START-AND-CLUTCH_W0QQitemZ160321361224QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_ToysGames_Radio...

Electric conversion system
1.8Kg 360w motor kit £275
http://www.cyclone-uk.com/

4 x 12v de walt chargers £240
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/DEWALT-DE9112-60-MINUTE-IN-CAR-CHARGER-7-2V-TO-18VOLT_W0QQitemZ300301359933QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_Home_Gard...|66%3A1|65%3A12|39%3A1|240%3A1318

4 x 2.6 Ah batteries. approx 3kg £140
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/DeWalt-DE9501-12v-2-6Ah-NiMh-Battery-12-v-Volt-NEW_W0QQitemZ320351027758QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_Home_Garden_...

I would arrange the batteries in series - parallel into a pack of four. Each bank giving 10.4 Ah at 24v.

I am hoping I can work it out like this;

In pure battery mode the electric power system runs off batteries.

In petrol/charging mode the output of the alternator would be split between the electric power system and the 4 de-walt chargers. This would mean that I could re-charge on the move.

first hour/ 25 miles; nice and quiet, running on battery
second hour/ 25 miles; noisy, batteries charging
third hour/ 25 miles; nice and quiet, running on battery
fourth hour/ 25 miles; noisy, batteries charging

is this even half way feasable?

dogman
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Last seen: 14 years 8 months ago
Joined: Tuesday, April 29, 2008 - 15:41
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Re: 2stroke hybrid

I'd say about half way. The best set up I've seen used a honda generator, a less polluting, longer lasting 4 stroke. The latest model puts out 1000 watts of 120v ac and weighs about 50 pounds. A golf cart charger, about 15 amps, plugs into that. With that, you can pretty much run on a set of sla batteries, charging as you go for infinity. But it still won't let you turn off and run silent since the charger will provide slighlty less power than you are using.

To charge a dead pack and ride would take a bigger generator, more weight, etc. The other thing is, can your hubmotor run continuously for 80 miles? The designers assume you have a battery that runs down in 20 miles or less. So you may want to look at motors that have air cooling fans and use a chain drive design.

Be the pack leader.
36 volt sla schwinn beach cruiser
36 volt lifepo4 mongoose mtb
24 volt sla + nicad EV Global

sam_uk
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Last seen: 14 years 6 months ago
Joined: Thursday, March 19, 2009 - 07:59
Points: 9
Re: 2stroke hybrid

Thanks for your reply. I don't really fancy cycling around with 22kg generator. The generator I was planning to construct weighs less than 5kg.

I am unsure what you mean about chain drive motors? I thought the cyclone was chain drive?

I have found that Bosch do a charger that they claim will charge in 20mins http://www.sbtooling.co.uk/chargedata.html

£50 15min charger
http://www.powertoolsuk.co.uk/webcat/details.asp?ProductCode=AL15FC&ID=3429

The charger is however a 240v Ac input... Would it be possible to modify it to take a 12v input?

dogman
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Last seen: 14 years 8 months ago
Joined: Tuesday, April 29, 2008 - 15:41
Points: 830
Re: 2stroke hybrid

Once you build your magic generator that takes 500 watts of mechanical imput power and turns it into 2000 watts of electric power, can I be your partner and sell it to the world?

Some smarter than I folks have kicked this idea around on another forum last summer, and lighter generators can be built. But they won't put out the power you describe, charging while riding. The big issue is the weight, as you point out. When I tried it on a trike with a 36v motor, my 100 pound generator slowed my speed by 50%.

If you just want to build a generator that puts out 500 watts of 36v dc to power but not charge at the same time, that is another story. The others thought it might be doable at about 25 pounds.

The one case I have seen, actually doing it, sucessfully, was using the lightest honda generator and a golf cart charger. So that is the starting point, this works. Surely it can be improved on, but that method is not so bad, the generator and charger can be removed when not needed, and it runs pretty quiet with far less pollution than any two stroke. I think that method has a lot to offer, using a trailer to carry it so you just have a regular ebike most of the time.

On the motor, something like the cylone is what I was thinking, or even something more powerfull so it can run pulling a lot of weight for a long distance without melting down. The real problem with your plan is if you get too heavy, the motor may not want to go that far without overheating. Another option is a crystalyte 530x type motor. They are pretty powerfull, and can go long ranges if ridden smart. Justin rode one across the entire width of Canada. Maybe you just need to monitor temperatues and stop a few times to let the motor cool.

One of the conclusions arrived at discussing this last summer, was that in most cases, it was a lot more practical to simply carry more battery than to try to build a generator. Not cheaper, just more likely to reliably get you there. One of the reasons for this conclusion was that range you could get from 25 more pounds of lifepo4. But somebody has to do it, and prove us armchair experts wrong, so why not you? good luck and have fun!

Be the pack leader.
36 volt sla schwinn beach cruiser
36 volt lifepo4 mongoose mtb
24 volt sla + nicad EV Global

sam_uk
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Last seen: 14 years 6 months ago
Joined: Thursday, March 19, 2009 - 07:59
Points: 9
Re: 2stroke hybrid

Once you build your magic generator that takes 500 watts of mechanical imput power and turns it into 2000 watts of electric power, can I be your partner and sell it to the world?

I think the chargers draw 2.4 amp each @12v. So I would need 9.6 amps. (I am double checking this)

I just found a guy who has done something very similar to what I was planning, http://www.szott.com/Hybrid/Hybrid.htm The tiny 4 stroke that he uses looks good too http://www.honda-engines.com/engines/gx25.htm

He said he gets; "10 amps at 24 volts. 15 amps stalls the motor." So that is 240watts electrical power.

240 watts at 12v = 20 amps.

So i think this would be enough to charge my 4 batteries in an hour, in fact I could probably do 6. You are quite right to sayt it was over ambitious to hope to be powered along as well..

If I got 2 sets of batteries then I could use one set whilst the other charged.

But somebody has to do it, and prove us armchair experts wrong, so why not you? good luck and have fun!

Maybe it will be me, more research needed first though.. I think your trailer idea is excellent, it makes much more sense.

Cheers

Sam

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