Hi all. Up until Tuesday I have had ZERO issues with my scooter. However, now I seem to have a major one. I have 1085 miles on it since I received it in late September '08. So here is the deal.
On my way to work on a wet morning, like many others that I have ridden in, as I tried to take off from a stop light all power failed when I twisted the throttle to go. By "All Power" I mean lights, blinkers, beeper, everything. I pulled the battery and disconnected it for about 30 seconds and then reconnected it. All the power came back. However after a quick U-turn and another stop and look, it did it again. Yesterday morning, a dry morning with a full charge, I rode it for about a mile and when I went to take off from another stop light, it did it again. Once again I did the disconnect, reset, reconnect method and rode it home just fine. It still had full power when I parked it.
So just a few minutes ago, I did a quick test run. After a nice cruise through the neighborhood and one stop sign without any problems, I stopped at a stop light and lo and behold, again. So I did the disconnect, reset, reconnect routine again and when I twisted the throttle twice in quick succession it cut out again.
After careful review of my actions prior to any of this, the only thing that stands out as different is that sometime during my 4 day work rotation, the garage circuit that my charger is attached to tripped the GFI. So the scooter didn't actually charge for at least one night and possibly two. I totally missed that the charger wasn't working the first night. Monday evening was when I caught on that the GFI was tripped. This eventually created what I thought was a Low Voltage Cutoff situation. However after yesterday on a full charge and then todays episode I am a little baffled. It seems that somehow the throttle twist is giving mixed messages to the circuitry. So I guess I will have to start digging around and see what I can see. But I wanted to post first and fish for some others informative comments.
Thanks in advance for any and all help. Lovin the V forums. Scott.
You're not alone!! I'm experiencing much the same problem with my XB-700LI. I put in a trouble ticket with X-Treme. The copy of the ticket is listed below.
Are you experiencing the same kind of ticking sound? I'm beginning to suspect there could be some kind of problem with the circuit board mentioned in their response.
Copy of the ticket:
==================================================
I did as instructed, but the problem is still occurring.
I removed the black horn looking device that was ticking (unplugged it from the bike). The ticking has gone away, but when I turn the throttle the bike dies and all power is lost.
One note - if I have the bike on the kick stand where the rear wheel is elevated off the ground, turning the throttle doesn't cause the bike to lose power. I only lose power when I'm sitting on the bike (meaning the motor has to actually do work to try to move the bike).
Also, I noticed before I unplugged the horn that the ticking would only occur when I tapped the horn button, and then only for a short time. If I held the horn button down for a while, the ticking would continue for a longer period of time after I released the horn button (I don't know if this matters or not - I thought it might have something to do with the alarm or something).
Please help.
Chuck
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Delete Post
Date: 05-22-2009 3:39pm CDT
Subject: No subject
Posted by John (Staff)
Charles, we are already investigating this problem. Until we hear from China, unplug the battery again until you get power back to scooter. Then unplug the black horn looking device that is ticking. We are experiencing a conflict between this devise and the charging circuit board in the battery packs. I have placed you on the list of service once received the fix.
Thank you,
John
Date: 05-20-2009 11:54am CDT
Subject: Problem with my XB-700LI
Posted by Charles
Hello,
I purchased an XB-700LI electric bike at Christmas time 2008. The bike had been working great, but doesn't work now.
I went out to ride the bike the other day and heard a strange clicking noise coming from somewhire beneath the dash board. I put the key in and turned it on, but nothing happened. The horn doesn't work, the lights don't work, it seemed like there was no electric power whatsoever.
I figured that the battery may have gone dead because I hadn't ridden it in about two weeks, so I plugged it in and gave it a full charge. The charger indicated that the battery was charging, and when finished the light turned green indicating that the battery were fully charged.
At this point I tried again to turn the bike on, but no luck. There was still no power whatsoever. I checked all the connections; the battery was plugged into the bike and all the other connections seemed to be tight.
Next, I decided to unplugh the battery and then plug it back in. Still no luck - there was still no power and I still heard that strange clicking noise coming from under the dash.
Next, I decided to unplug the battery for a longer period of time. I thought it was strange that when I unplugged the battery that I would still hear the strange clicking noise. I left the battery unplugged for several hours. The clicking noise went away. I then plugged the battery pack back into the bike and tried the key again. Still no luck. I then decided to try again, but this time I left the battery unplugged for a few days.
When I plugged the battery pack back into the bike I was surprised that I finally got power to the bike again. I was able to turn on the light and honk the horn. Next I tried to ride it, but as soon as I turned the throttle all power died to the bike. No horn, no lights, no power whatsoever. I then heard the strange clicking noise again.
I unplugged the battery again until the clicking noise went away again. When I plugged it back in I was once again able to get power to the bike, but as soon as I tried to ride it and put any strain on the motor whatsoever, all power to the bike died again.
Please help.
Regards,
Chuck
Hi Chuck. I believe the ticking noise you might be hearing is from a capacitor. When I unplugged my battery pack the ticking starts fast and slows down. When I plug the pack back in after being unplugged for a minute, there is an initial pop of the connection and then the ticking starts slow and as soon as the capacitor is full it stops ticking and all my power is there and everything works fine.
Keep us posted and thanks for the reply. Keeping my fingers crossed. Scott.
I cant say for sure because i have an xb600, but it sounds like the ticking would be a relay for some device in the dash area. It keeps ticking when you unplug the battery pack because it is being supplied power from a capacitor that is charged when the batteries are plugged in. It sounds to me like there may be a bad part or "glitch" in the controller, or something up front that causes a backfeed into the controller that is triggering a thermal or over voltage cut out of the controller. Weather it is the alarm system or something else, without being able to physically test all the leads coming from the controller for any incorrect voltages etc. it is impossible to tell.
If the connections on the 700Li are like the 600, I suggest disconnecting everything but the throttle and motor. You may have to disconnect some stuff in the dash to just have the throttle (and ignition of course). If it seems to work fine on the kickstand try it under load..... If it still works under load, then simply start reconnecting things 1 by 1 until it fails on you. Then at least you know the CAUSE. If with only the throttle/ignition and motor connected it fails, then it becomes a little more tricky. If you have access to another battery pack.. even an SLA one of the same voltage I would try that.(this eliminates any BMS conflicts) If nothing i would try bypassing the ignition switch wires then. Last of all, I have no idea if the 700li uses the frame as a common ground for the electrical system or not, but if it does, I would test the wire sets to see if any are grounding out that should not be.
Let me know if any of this helps...
Dave ; Tennessee
XB-600.
Update:
I did as X-Treme support asked and removed the speaker. This did not, however, fix the problem. Their response to my trouble ticket suggested to me that the charge control circuitry in the battery box may be getting interfered with by components on the bike, so I decided to charge the battery box by removing it from the bike and plugging in the charger directly. This charge took a lot longer to complete! I plugged it in around 6 PM and got tired of checking if it was complete around midnight and went to bed. The next morning the charger light had turned green so I was excited to try it out. Unfortunately, it still didn't work.
When I plug the battery box into the bike, there is an initial pop. When I turn the key, the lights on the dash turn on. When I turn the throttle with the bike on the kick stand the wheel turns fine. When I sit on the bike and turn the throttle the bike loses all power. Turning the key to off and then back to on will not restore power. The only thing I can do to restore power is to unplug the battery box, wait about 30 seconds, and then plug it back in.
I updated my trouble ticket on X-Treme's website and they have asked whether the charger turns red and goes green (which it does), so I don't think the charger will be the culprit.
Waiting for their next response.
Chuck
The same problem. The bike is brand new. First time I turned the ignition on, it shut off as soon as I accelerated. I unplugged the horn but it didn't completely fix the problem. The bike shuts off randomly when I accelerate. With unplugged horn I also lost turn signals. I plugged the horn back in. Now it shuts off after 1 or 2 mins. But what do you know... the turn signals work. Oh, and, of course, I have to unplug the battery or it won't start up at all.
I am rather disappointed with this purchase and the quality of the product in general >.<
You may want to document everything that you have experienced wih this lemon, to include your contacts to resolve the problem(s) with Xtreme/Alpha Intl. Then consider contacting the Iowa Attorney Generals Office as I and others have done via their website. The 700Li certainly has some engineering/safety issues.
Mine has been running okay since the last hub-motor and controller replacement thanks to the assistance from the Attorney General's Office after much foot dragging by Alpa Intl. As of three days ago I have noticed the controller and wiring getting hot to the touch...again! I've had my "gem" since August of last year and won't recommend Xtreme/Alpha bikes to anyone. Good luck to all.
Ben - Modesto
Hi all. Just an update. Xtreme wants me to send the battery pack back to them for testing. So I will be doing that today. It seems to me that it could be, as some entries stated, that there is a problem with the circuitry in the pack. If that is indeed the issue then I assume that they have figured it out or soon will and all will be well. I am still keeping my fingers crossed.
Happy, safe scooting to all. Summer is here! Scott.
This clicking and unplug to reset ordeal happened to me once, and I thought it was a huge problem!
Turns out, it was just that i had not charged the battery in a while, and was ( I guess ) the first time I ran out of batteries with this thing.
It's not very intuitive that a low battery was the cause since the meter showed about 3/4 charge. The ticking caused me great alarm.
Due to this, I believe your problem is a bad battery or charging circuit ( whatever that is ).
Hi, all! I just found this site and hope to either find some answers and/or help others if they have the same power failure problem. I just received my XB-700Li on Monday, June 15, 2009. My husband and brother put it together (a few hours of work), and there was no juice at all in the battery. After charging most of the evening the lights came on, but the turn signals and horn were not working (still not). The charger light went from red to green, but the gauge on the bike did not show a charge (still red light). The bike will not stay on, even though it will start and allow you to go a block. Have filled out ticket and left voice messages (no answer yet).
I saw the thread referring to the battery connector on the bike, and mine came with the red wire on the left and the black wire on the center post instead of the right one (in the prior thread, folks were having to move the black wire from the right to the center to get it to charge without taking the battery out), but still no luck. We have tried charging it both in the bike and outside of the bike with their charger. Also, my husband can't find where the fuses are to see if one is out. The schematics are terrible in that pitiful instruction booklet they sent. Any help would be appreciated. Still waiting to hear from tech support. Thanks!
Dallaslady
XB-700Li Owner 6-15-09
Scootoregon / Dallaslady --
Any updates? Get your scoots to go?
I've just passed 250 miles (yes not many miles --- mucho busy trying to stay employed) and have not really had too many problems. Knock on wood. Danged light bulbs are tough on me though. they burn out just for something to do.
I think I see a battery problem developing. Battery after charge is down to 52.5V instead of the 54+. Anyone have experience with batteries they can share on the 700Li? Does X-treme replace one cell or the entire pack? Guess I'll have to try calling them.
Take care.
Thom
An update, such as it is. As of today, nothing. No reply, or acknowledgment of even receiving my returned battery pack, that they requested I return. My only confirmation was from UPS that it was delivered. I am considering buying a set of SLA's just to get up and running again. Sheesh. So now I should expect all the " I told you so's." to be coming my way. But the eternal optimist in me wanted to believe differently. So I wait and see. I think I will call them tomorrow as it has been more than the 7-10 day requested processing period since delivery.
Dead in the garage in Oregon. Happy scooting to all. Scott.
Finally an update. After a month and a half of support ticket life and 3 weeks since I sent them my battery pack, I get an informative reply. In it they state that they had to convince the support people in China that this was a problem. So now I wait for my new battery pack, along with 20 more, with a revised charging circuit board installed in it. According to them it should be here in......well we are waiting on China so who knows when. At least I got a reply right? Probably just blowing smoke up my @#$ and hoping I will give up. Not me, not yet.
Cheers to all. Happy scooting, Scott.
Hang in there Scott. I have to admit I would like to say it will be soon but my experience has been pretty poor.
I am half tempted to try and sell out while it still goes and move over to something like one of the Veloteq models...I don't hear negative feedback about them........hmmmm not sure.
Hang in.
Thom
My bike has cut out the exact same way three times unplug replug powers up but after reading these posts I gues it is only a matter of time til I will be waiting for the slow boat from China--wish I had bought Veloteq
ChucknFl
Does anybody have a working hypothesis on why this is happening? Is is a rogue low-voltage cutout? If someone had a cycle analyst hooked up the low voltage could be tracked to see if this was provoking the shutoffs.
Possible causes:
I sent my battery back last week after beingtold they were expecting a shipment of new batteries on 8/01. I guess that did not happen so now I wait with the rest of you. I would have kept my battery as I could still use the bike lot of plugging and unplugging and limited range but better than no bike at all sigh. I think this company is growing so fast they can not keep up. Was considering buying back up battery but a 48volt 40 amp lithium bat on e-bay is over a grand $1000 so I guess I will continue to wait impatiently. NOt Happy
ChucknFl
Have any of you guys gotten a battery pack replacement?
I purchased mine new - about 2 weeks ago. Had a similar problem:
http://visforvoltage.org/forum/7133-questions-xb-700li-got-mine
I did the "disconnect" thing listed on this thread, and it worked, but just a few days after that, the bike completely shut off 8.5 miles away from home around midnight; actually, it faded out in a middle of a ride, not from acceleration from stop. I had to walk my bike home 8.5 miles (took me over 2 hours) - got home at 3am - because the disconnect method did not help. When I got home, it had the ticking sound - which I recorded.
I have been fighting with the "dealer/reseller" that sold me this bike - used - from someone in Florida.
I am 99% sure that the original owner knew about this problem - for many many reasons (documented on my Dispute page on PayPal).
Alas, I got a replacement battery, seems to be straight from X-treme (Iowa?) just 3 days ago. Charged it overnight, and rode my bike 10.5 miles (each way to/from work) 3 times so far. Have not had the problem - yet.
Just wondering - as I seemed to have gotten a replacement battery fine... although it may not have the "fixed" charging circuit board inside.
Sorry, I meant "I purchased mine USED - about 2 weeks ago"
Also - are we sure that the issue lies in the Battery Pack and not the Controller?
It's a "try and see" thing right now - I'm trying to ride it as much as I can - ever since I got the replacement batteries. But always paranoid/scared that I may get stuck somewhere.
Hi all. Here is my last two posts and replies on my support ticket with Xtreme.
Subject:
Complete power failure
Created On:
May 28, 2009 7:29am CDT
Department:
X-Treme Scooter Support
Subject: No subject
Posted by John (Staff)
Scott, I heard that the batteries has come into the warehouse. Part yet have to be inventories and then we need to install the new battery packs in the boxes and send out early next week my guess.
Thank you,
John
Date: 09-1-2009 6:03pm CDT
Subject: Any word yet??
Posted by Scott Aarestad
Hi there. It is now September 1rst. Where is my battery pack? Is you company trying to hold out on getting it to me so that my one year warranty period is over?. What gives? I have now not been able to use my scooter since the middle of MAY. Now three months have gone by and I am still waiting for you guys to do something about it. I am beyond disgusted with this whole process. And while I realize that things sometimes take more time than originally thought, three months for a warranty repair is outrageously out of line. Not to mention the very limited communications that I have received, that were every one prompted by myself.
So, will you be shipping me my battery pack within the next two weeks or should I contact the Iowa Attorney Generals office like so many others have already about your shoddy business practices.
Sincerely disappointed, Scott Aarestad.
Delete Post
Delete Post
Date: 09-1-2009 12:13pm CDT
Subject: No subject
Posted by John (Staff)
Scott, boat has not arrived yet so far expected time arrival is the last week of August and you are on the list.
Thank you,
John
Date: 08-12-2009 11:35am CDT
Subject: One month later now
Posted by Scott Aarestad
Hi there. It has been exactly one month to the day since I last received an communication from you folks. And in the last post you said I was first on the list and gave an order # of "******". I don't have my battery pack yet and when I first looked at my ticket a few minutes ago, it was closed. Umm, ok so now I am starting to raally wonder what gives? Why would you close the ticket BEFORE the reason it was opened is resolved? Is my battery pack on a VERY SLOW boat from China or what?
Please reply with pertinent information and preferably a location on my revised or repaired battery pack.
Your attention to this matter is imperative. As of now I am still trying very hard to remain pleasant and optimistic but my nerves are wearing thin. Please, I repeat, Please get back to me quickly. Thank you.
Sincerely, Scott Aarestad. 2008 XB -700Li Owner.
Hahaha, when I poked at them about contacting the Iowa Attorney Generals Office I get a reply the some day. So, with regards to their last reply, I am hoping that they will be getting us our battery packs soon. Anyone else have any updates?
Impatiently waiting in Oregon, Scott.
Hello All,
I have a suspicion on maybe why my XB 700LI Battery Pack has failed, but thought I'd run it by the group to get your opinions.
Before I do so, has anyone received their battery pack back yet?
My suspicion is this:
The XB 700LI motor controller has built in circuitry to protect the Lithium Ion battery pack from going under voltage. As I understand things, Lithium Ion batteries don't like being under voltage and they can fail to recharge if an undervoltage happens.
My suspicion is that the alarm system on the bike doesn't have the same kind of battery undervoltage protection circuitry. In other words, if the alarm is set to on, and you don't use your bike for a while, the alarm might draw down the batteries to an undervoltage condition. This could happen if:
1. You turned on the alarm, and then didn't drive or charge the batteries for a long period of time.
2. You drove your bike to work or somewhere and by the time you got home the batteries were drained. Then you parked it, put on the alarm, and didn't drive it for a few days.
I think what happened to me was scenario one (1). I had parked my bike under a scooter cover on the back yard patio and turned on the alarm. Then the weather turned bad and I didn't get to drive it for a couple of months. When the weather turned good, I tried to recharge the battery and drive it, but the clicking sound started happening and I lost all power.
I'm wondering if anyone who has had this kind of failure feels as though they might fit into one of the above scenarios.
If this is the case, then the best course of action would be to either not use the alarm, and/or make sure and unplug the battery pack when you park the bike (especially for an extended period of time).
Chuck
Hi all. I have FINALLY received my repaired battery pack back from Xtreme. It came with some charge in it but I monitored the charging of it to make sure that the charger would still shut off when finished. It worked like it was supposed to. Tonight after work I took the scooter out for a short 2 mile run of lots of starts and stops to see what would happen. Everything is performing flawlessly. Yahoo! I am back on the road again!
Chuck, even though you bought yours used, maybe Xtreme would be willing to sell you a revised circuit board so that you can fix yours. Good luck on that one.
Happy scooting. Scott.
I don't even know how to enable the alarm. How is the alarm turned on? When I lock the bike?
-taka
Its something like pressing either of the horn buttons for a few seconds after you turn off the bike. I dont actually have an xb-700Li but i know it has to do with pressing the horn button :)
Dave ; Tennessee
XB-600.
Hmm.. I don't think that's the case... only because I've had the alarm on my XB-700Li go off on me twice so far (when I close the under-seat compartment) while it's parked.
I haven't done anything with the horn buttons... but I did (and typically do) have the bike in the "lock" position.
So I'm doing something to enable it... just wondering what it is, and what I need to do to NOT enable the alarm...
Anyone? Bueller?
To activate the alarm on the XB 700 Li one must first have the key in the locked position and then you just touch the horn button to activate it. On mine when I tap the horn button I get an audible indicator, series of beeps, to let me know it's activated.
40 miles on repair job and going strong.
Happy scooting, Scott.
Scott - glad to hear you are finally up and running. Took 'em awhile!
I thought the alarm was activated by turing the front wheel all the way to the left then putting key in locked position and tapping the horn button....maybe more than one way to turn on an alarm??
I seldom use it. I park in a garage at night and am seldom far away when cruising around on errands.
Anyway -- Glad to hear you are back in the saddle.
Thom
It's because the controller wants more power then the battery can give so it shuts down. This happened to me so many times that I put a battery cutoff switch aside of my seat . I got a 40 amp switch from the auto parts store. Once it actually blew my fuse inside the battery pack. I bought another battery and put in parallel with the old one and BAM PROBLEM FIXED
DAVE S.
Dave C. Stout
STOUT PRODUCTIONS
Low Carbon Products
I bought my 700 last Aug and ride it about 10 miles everyday. It was an absolute nightmare dealing with both Extreme and the distributor I chose,. Ivoog (which both companies coincidentally have a D rating with the BBB). Ivoog being unbelievably unprofessional. But, thats for another discussion. I was having the same problems with total power failure. I soon figured out that it was all about the throttle. Throttle to fast...power out. All I had to do if this happened was disconect and immediately reconect the battery. This sucks in an intersection. But Ii learned to finess the throttle ever-so, as to lose basically no torque. I've not had a problem since. I just kind of figured it was kind of like a breaker as to not break the breaker, but I know little to nothing about electronics, so I could be way off. Anyway, thats my input. I have many other questions and concerns about my bike(Laws, police, parts, upgrades, etc, so anyone willing to chat, that. would be cool. E-mail is patchoulli74 [at] yahoo.com
Patchouli74
Your describing my exact problem before I replaced the battery, motor etc. I think and I sure from my results that the throttle is sending spikes through with the normal signal. Another words a faulty hall effect transistor. I replaced the throttle and most of my 'shutdowns' were eliminated. With the original thottle I had to , like you move the throttle ever so slightly to avoid it from shuting off. I held that throttle sooo tight I was glad my ride was over. That was not why I bought a scooter. Any bump in the rode made my hand jerk the throttle and the damn thing shut off. It could be anywhere at any time. Since I put a great battery in with a great BMS on it I can now full throttle it on demand. I don't usually but tried it to so if it could be done, and it can. This gives me great security at intersections. Please do youself a favor and get rid of that original battery. Mine is a LiFePo4 48v30Ah 50a max out. It did cost $950 or so dollars but it will theoretically live past 800 charges and keeping 80% capacity.
If anyone wants the companies name it's optimum- battery from china. That cost includes shipping.
JUST DO IT MAN!
Dave C. Stout
STOUT PRODUCTIONS
Low Carbon Products
Your describing my exact problem before I replaced the battery, motor etc. I think and I sure from my results that the throttle is sending spikes through with the normal signal. Another words a faulty hall effect transistor. I replaced the throttle and most of my 'shutdowns' were eliminated. With the original thottle I had to , like you move the throttle ever so slightly to avoid it from shuting off. I held that throttle sooo tight I was glad my ride was over. That was not why I bought a scooter. Any bump in the rode made my hand jerk the throttle and the damn thing shut off. It could be anywhere at any time. Since I put a great battery in with a great BMS on it I can now full throttle it on demand. I don't usually but tried it to so if it could be done, and it can. This gives me great security at intersections. Please do youself a favor and get rid of that original battery. Mine is a LiFePo4 48v30Ah 50a max out. It did cost $950 or so dollars but it will theoretically live past 800 charges and keeping 80% capacity.
If anyone wants the companies name it's optimum- battery from china. That cost includes shipping.
JUST DO IT MAN!
Dave C. Stout
STOUT PRODUCTIONS
Low Carbon Products
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