Well... First post. Nice place. Lots of info.
Ok, I am going to ask a ton of questions, some stupid easy, some, not so much.
But let me start by saying that I have indeed read alot of the already existing threads and spent hours sifting through google trying to find direct and simple answers to my questions.
My problem is information overload because of all the different models, versions, etc... and I am left with the feeling of "yeah, but does that apply to me?"
So I apologize if I have ask a question that has been asked and answered a million times, while I am looking for the answer, true, I am also looking for the "Here is the answer, and here is the part that is specific to what you have and what you want to do"...
Right.
My name is Dave.
Yes. Hello to you to.
Last summer, I saw on ad on Kijiji (a classified site if you don't know) and this guy here in my city was selling a XB-500 for $500. I thought that it would be a good idea considering how expensive gas was, so I took a look at it. It was in really good condition. At the time, there didn't seem to be anything wrong with it... and a year later, I am still not sure if it's something that is broke, or just "not on my model". So, I bought it and drove it that entire summer with no complaints.
I have read lots of reviews and experiences that people have had and they all match up with what I have. So I wasn't too concerned. I put the bike away for winter as I don't think it's snow safe for Eastern Canada. (heh)
And this week the temperature was nice enough in the morning finally for me to start biking again. \o/
But alas, it's long winter slumber has damaged the batteries because I failed to keep it plugged in. As a result, There is a noticeable drop in "power", and having a bit of experience with electronics and the like, I know the batteries just don't have the juice. While it's nothing that is really too bad, the range is cut down by alot plus going up higher grade hills is almost not going to happen.
So, I need to replace the batteries... no big deal... except... with what?
Also, if I am going to do that, I may as well take the whole damn thing apart on a nice day and do all the cleaning, repairs, replacements, upgrades, and mods all at once. But now I just need the information on what I can and can't do, and what is normal and not normal...
In the end, I would like to have a working XB500 that can go a "little" faster - I am not looking to win any races - last maybe a little longer, and take hills a hell of a lot better. That is my "ideal" goal... but just to have it up to more or less "stock new" would be a minimum goal.
Cost is a HUGE factor here... so it's not like I can go out and buy a bunch of stuff to turn into a super XB500... it also means, that if I can't do anything to make alot of the existing bits better, then it's a matter of how to clean, repair, and maintain them.
the point?
Yes, I have one.
Here they are. The questions. (Note: Everything on or in the bike is stock)
- If I was to replace the batteries with exact matching ones, when I walk into my battery store what do I ask for specifically short of disconnecting one of the batteries and taking it with me and going "You got any of these"? Is there a wide range of batteries that I need to be careful of, what is it I should try to get and what should I avoid? (I have a pretty good guess as to the batteries, but I am more looking for confirmation and details)
- I was told and read that I could add additional batteries. Wiring them up is no problem, but I am worried about side effects. What would happen if I hooked up some additional batteries in series or parallel or both (other than the obvious of providing more voltage and longer life) - I know the benefits, I am worried about the negatives like burning out components and destroying stuff. That's bad.
- If I do add more batteries in series or parallel, how will that affect charging other than obviously taking longer to charge. I am worried that the stock charger will not full charge the batteries due to incorrect power readings, or worse, damage the batteries or not charge them at all...
- I was reading about this "coat hanger mod" aka "Shunt Mod". Alot of people have written that it makes hills a lot easier at the expect of range as the batteries are draining faster. This is not so much a problem, especially if I add more batteries... but is it safe? I mean, will it hurt the motor or melt wires or anything? Think it would be possible and relatively simple to install a switch to have it on off (NOTE: I haven't actually gone through the mod guides yet, gonna do that tonight when I have more time)
- Let's say I wanted to add some "additional" and optional components to the bike, like, say for instance... maybe a small am/fm radio. Now, I have several in my "junk" and "spare part" pile that I could very very easily rig and setup into the dash for a headphone jack, tuning and volume, and maybe a small speaker - What I am thinking though is that I do NOT want to have to rely on AA batteries and I would like to wire the radio power directly into the bikes power. While the soldering and installation and such I understand, I am a little weak on the actual electrical engineering. I know that a little piece of crap, dollar store radio that takes 2 AA batteries will last about as long as a virgin in a whore house if I directly connected it up to the main battery line.... so the question is, what would I need to do to make it work, where would I connect the radio power leads and what would I need for a converter/resistor/regulator/insert correct term here (if any). My thinking is, if the bike and run some dinky little lights in the dash which don't take many volts and amps, a tiny radio should be fairly easy to incorporate, right?
- My shocks squeak alot. How can I make them not squeak (I don't know anything about shocks so I do not know the proper maintenance or repair for the kind on my bike) If I need to replace, where can I go to get replacements (I would prefer to go to a store in the city vs ordering online if I can) - I mean, would the local Canadian Tire or auto part stores have them, or do I need go someplace more specific.... if so, should I get direct exact replacements, or are there better and/or not as expensive alternatives? What should I be looking for and what should I try to avoid?
- My brake like doesn't work like a brake light. When the lights are on, it's on, and when they are off, it's off. Squeezing the brakes does not do anything to them. Is this how it's suppose to work, or is it supposed to work more like a car break light? If the latter - what should I look for to repair. Could it be the wrong kind of bulb? if so, what is the kind of bulb I need to get?
- on my dash, there is a switch that looks like it's for "high beam" "low beam" head light.
It's not the on/off (that's a horizontal 3 position switch on the right), this is a vertial 2 position switch on the left and the icons look like (to me) high/low beam indicators. The thing is... this switch does NOTHING. So either it's not hooked up, or my bike doesn't support this switch and the bike was just using a "generic" dash... or maybe the headlight bulbs are wrong? if they are, what should I get for this? If the switch is supposed to do something on the XB500, what is it supposed to do? and how do I diagnose/fix it (meaning, what should I look for?)
- the turning indicator speaker is way WAY WAY too loud for my liking... so much so that I don't use them as I get a lot of vary annoying and strange looks. Is there a way I can lower the volume of that speaker, and/or disable it short of destroying it? I was going to see if I can find it and just clip and heat shrink the wires that supply power, but that's a last resort type of thing. Also, where is it? Is it the same unit as the horn? and will altering the turn indicator beep also alter the horn too?
- The seat as a tendency to (sink?) in the middle after I have been sitting on it while - is this normal for a stock seat? is there a way to sure it up without making it feel like a brick? Can the seats be replaced, and if so, with what and where would be a place to look to get one?
- I am finding the brakes, especially the rear, are really soft. Now, I know that you can "adjust them" but before I do so, what is the "normal" feel for them, I don't want to make them too hard in which they lock up the wheels, and/or cause damage or worse yet, become dangerous to drive. My front wheel is a lot more (griping?) than the rear, is that on purpose and supposed to be that way, or do they just need to be replaced and/or tuned? What is the optimal safe feel I should use?
- I have seen there are some places online to show how to repair or replace a tire, but about the breaks, if I do need to replace the pads, is there a tutorial or guide that I can use to take me through he dis assembly, replacement, and re-installation process. I can most likely figure it out myself, but I am worried about breaking or ruining something, so I would like to be about to read up on it first.
- What is it that is on/covering the rear wheel axle?
Is that the actual motor? If it is, can the cover be removed to cleaning and repairs? what should I do to clean, repair, maintain the motor (if that is what it is) and if it's not, what is it and same questions apply. (also, the front axle seems to be a little thicker than what I would expect, is there something special in that big chunk of middle, or is it just bigger to take more wieght/abuse?)
- My tires are starting to show a little bit of their age. If I was to replace them (just the tires, not the rims) where would be a good place to go to get them. What are the called if I was to start looking on my own... I mean, if I walk into a store called "tire world" and walked up to the experts, what would I ask for? I don't know if I would be able to find them locally, I would probably have to order. Do you know any good places online that would sell and deliver to Canada (and hopefully without charging more than the bike is worth)?
- If I wanted to take the entire bike apart, or the majority of it... like the casing and such, is there a guide or manual or something someplace on line that shows you how to do it properly and in what order, etc. I remember last summer I wanted to try but I was really scared I was going to break something - I didn't know what should be forced because it's a pop in, pop out thing, or what was held in by bolts or screws, or what should be removed in order to remove the other thing, etc.
- There's alot of dirt and/or rust and crud built up on the tire rims... unlike those nice and shiny ones in the pics above, mine look like they have been used. I was wondering what is recommended for cleaning and if there is anything I should avoid due to the bits and parts around the area, or any special procedures I should follow.
- The carpet is free and falls off easily, at the very least, it moves around alot. I have tried several things to keep it on and in place, like Velcro, but it doesn't really work well. I don't really want to use anything permanent like some kind of cement or glue because I am afraid that if I do, I will be unable to get at the battery compartment... anyone have any recommendations as to what to do about the carpet? ways to attach it and keep it firm, or replace it with something better?
- Anyone have any other suggestions or tips that I can use? Simple and inexpensive mods and upgrades? Sites I should bookmark?
Anyway... that's it.
Hopefully you all can answer them. I know most of it is comment sense, and some I even know already or suspect, I just need confirmation or clarification on. Some I am a complete dunce about.
Bottom line is that given enough time and some half ass knowledge from google, I can very very probably figure everything out on my own. My biggest problem is fear though. I really don't want to break anything as I can't really afford to replace anything that I don't have to or want to. I mean, yeah, it would probably be really cool to drop a new controller and a XB600 or 700 motor in it, but the last time I checked, the tree in my back yard has yet to yield any money... not even a couple of hundred bucks.
Stupid tree.
Most of the stuff that applies to the 600 and 508 applies to the 500.
There is a great webpage specifically on the XB 500, that will address the XB 500:
http://www.bergerweb.net/xb500/index.shtml
Go through that, do some searching on the forums and edit out all the questions that have already been answered. We will try to help you with what's left over.
The 60 volt mod and shunt mod are relatively safe. I would start out by adding a 12 volt battery via the 60 volt mod. That might give you the speed and range you want without spending spending the money for a whole battery new pack. There might be enough life left in the old battery pack. After that, do the shut. Adjust the brakes by a few turns until it works as best as possible, ect.
NICE! I that more or less exactly what I am looking for. I will give that a read and edit as I discover new stuff.
Ok, after reading everything on that site, plus attempting to read through the handbooks on this site, I quickly found myself suffering from information overload and starting to question everything that I learned... wondering what applies to me and what is for someone else.
Based on what I know now (Thanks DP) here are the revised question list:
- If I was to replace the batteries with exact matching ones, when I walk into my battery store what do I ask for specifically short of disconnecting one of the batteries and taking it with me and going "You got any of these"? Is there a wide range of batteries that I need to be careful of, what is it I should try to get and what should I avoid? (I have a pretty good guess as to the batteries, but I am more looking for confirmation and details)
I now understand that I need 12V SLA batteries, but if I was to just go get one off the shelf at a battery store, is it possible to get the wrong kind that could damage the bike or other batteries?
- I was told and read that I could add additional batteries. Wiring them up is no problem, but I am worried about side effects. What would happen if I hooked up some additional batteries in series or parallel or both (other than the obvious of providing more voltage and longer life) - I know the benefits, I am worried about the negatives like burning out components and destroying stuff. That's bad.
Ok, I read that really awesome guide on the battery wiring, which looks easy enough. But the question still remains. Are there any negative side effects from adding a 5th battery in either series or parallel?
- If I do add more batteries in series or parallel, how will that affect charging other than obviously taking longer to charge. I am worried that the stock charger will not full charge the batteries due to incorrect power readings, or worse, damage the batteries or not charge them at all...
Everything I read says that if I do add additional or different batteries that I am going to need to get a separate charger. Why is this? Short of completely replacing the charger, is there anything that can be done to avoid a second charger?
- I was reading about this "coat hanger mod" aka "Shunt Mod". Alot of people have written that it makes hills a lot easier at the expect of range as the batteries are draining faster. This is not so much a problem, especially if I add more batteries... but is it safe? I mean, will it hurt the motor or melt wires or anything? Think it would be possible and relatively simple to install a switch to have it on off (NOTE: I haven't actually gone through the mod guides yet, gonna do that tonight when I have more time)
Ok, I found an awesome guide on http://www.bergerweb.net/xb500/shuntmod.shtml which looks pretty straight forward and simple enough. but some questions. The shunt that already exists on the board allows for a max of 15 amp. He changed the mod so that it now allows for 25. Question. Did the new shunt ADD or REDUCE the amount of resistance? I would normally think that it would reduce to allow for more amps... common sense says yes, but for some reason, I am not sure.
all the questions after this one are still the same and unanswered, however, I am learning alot.
I just get confused and flustered when I am presented with too much information. I guess I really just need help sifting through it all and telling it all apart.
Cheers
Dave
They're all pretty much the same, especially in these smaller Amp-Hour sizes.
If you want direct replacements for the stock batteries simply measure the stock batteries, then try to find duplicates online that have the same AmpHour rating.
These are probably a good match.
http://www.electricvehiclesusa.com/product_p/ba-ty-12-10.htm
Or you could upgrade to the size of battery found in the XB-600
http://www.electricvehiclesusa.com/product_p/ba-ty-12-20.htm
Upgrading to 60 volts won't damage any components in the XB-600 or XB-500.
If you upgrade to 60 volts then you'll want to get a 60 volt charger anyways.
http://tncscooters.com/product.php?sku=101156
That's the rear drum brake, which is small and weak. You won't need to replace the pads on the drum brakes anytime soon (and good luck finding any that size when you do), but you will have to keep an eye on the tension of the brake cables.
Batteries are a commodity: As long as they physically fit they will work fine. That said, there are good and bad ones. Best would be Hunter, then B&B, then PowerSonic, then all the rest.
Seems to be commonly done. You will have 12V bus that will have to tap off the pack bus somehow. A conservative approach would be to replace the 48V DC-DC with a 60V DC-DC.
That's the least of your problems. You are going to have four batteries from one production run and a fifth probably from another manufacturer. Read everything on this board about balancing the batteries in a pack. With our sealed batteries, cooking a battery is about like putting a bullet through it. I recommend rewiring the pack to allow parallel charging and then using a jumper plug to rewire the pack to series for running.
The shunt referred to is the circuitry in the controller that limits current, preventing blown componints or melted insulation. There is a fair amount of evidence now that the design is conservative, and will take more current (power) than designed. It is probably safe to increase the current limit by 50% (???) The little shunt wires are NOT copper, but a special alloy. The 1.5" piece of coathanger wire is a rough equivalent.
If you tap into the 12V bus, you'll be fine. If you tap into the 48V bus, you'll have a flashbulb.
Mine too. WD40?
It may be a feature, or it may be a stuck wire. Someone else saw the same thing, which may indicate that it's a feature, but I doubt it. Buy a cheap voltmeter ($4.00) and compare what it says to the circuit diagram. Unplug things and see what happens.
It is an extra switch for some other model of scoot.
If its loud, you're probably not wearing a helmet. Change that - how many brains do you have?
These little buzzers quiet down a lot if you stuff something in them. As to where it is, follow your ear...
Brake adjustment is a regular maintenance item. They should be adjusted so that the wheel rotates COMPLETELY freely, but NO more. You'll have to revisit this every couple of weeks.
Look on this site for a recommendation. The size is on the sidewalls, and it's pretty easy to get the correct replacement. Actually getting it on the rim is NOT easy - look for "replace motorcycle tire" on the web or find a friend the first time.
when (I hope) you take it apart, you probably WILL break something. So what? There are two classes of "stuff" on the bike: cosmetic sheisse and the real structure. The real stuff will be pretty strong, compared the the soap-bubble cosmetic parts. Be gentle, wiggle things before you pull too hard, look behind/inside, look at replacement parts to see where the tabs are, etc. Hold broken things together with angle brackets or extra sheetmetal screws. The SECOND time you take it apart will be much easier.
Washing is good. It will let you explore the parts of the scoot, and will alert you to loose parts (a weekly problem).
Velcro sounds good, actually. Get wider self-stick versions, or use sheet metal screws and those V-shaped finish washers.
Have fun and explore!
Mark