BionX range

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ashby3
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BionX range

I had had my 350 watt system for several months and have had no trouble with it. The problem I am starting to run into is length on rides. I am wanting to ride 40 - 50 - 60 or more mile and the best I can get out of the system is 35 miles running at level 2 most of the time and recharging on descents whenever possible. I was planing to get a second battery but do not understand why just a battery would cost $1000.00 when other none BionX batteries of similar specs are about $500.00. As much as I like the BionX system it seems like price goudging to me.

I read with great interest the article where the battery was removed from a BionX battery box and a cable was installed to allow as many as 4 external batteries to be attached in parallel.

I was wondering if one could not go into the BionX and attach a cable to the existing battery to allow one or more external batteries to be attached in parallel. This would allow for use of the standard system for shorter rides and allow for extended rides with the extra battery carried along and simply plugged in. One might be able to charge both batteries with the BionX charger, it would just take longer.

Anyone have any thought on this? Also has anyone done any experimenting with solar cells and a BionX system?

Ashby

Andre
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Re: BionX range

Hello Ashby,

Your range performances look like mines. I have the same idea as you do. What I have in mind would be to add an external connector to the existing battery. So it would be possible to add some range when necessary. I have already ask at the BionX factory if it can be done. The answer was that they had no plan for it, even with an actual BionX battery.

André Tremblay
Montréal

ashby3
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Re: BionX range

I have not talked to BionX but I am not surprised that they are not interested. I would assume they just want to sell more batteries. I do not have any direct knowledge of the insides of the BionX battery or the circuit board in there or exactly what the circuit board does. If that circuit board connect to the power connection of the battery at only one place - one positive and one negative then I cannot see how adding a battery or batteries in parallel of the same voltage and simulator current capacity would not work. I am sure doing so would void any warranty as would placing a hole in the case to provide for a connection to the outside battery. My expertise is in computes and digital electronics. I know a good bit about electronics in general but do not feel I know enough about these circuits to be sure. For example, I am not sure how the extra battery or batteries might effect the regeneration system - the circuits may not be able to handle the currents if addition batteries are connected. This could be eliminated by placing diodes in series with the external batteries so the the regeneration system would not see them and would not therefor be charging them. My dilemma is do I invest in a $500 to $600 battery, which would have superior properties to the current BionX battery, that I may or may not be able to use or $1000 for a second BionX battery I can use. Also if I opp for the BionX do I just get the Battery or a whole setup for a second bike. My funds are limited so most of this is just thinking out loud. I am hopping that their might be others with more information or experience with the interal workings of the BionX battery will share their information.

Ashby

transtech4u
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Re: BionX range

I have the same questions as Ashby.

Anyone have first hand experience with this?

Jason

garygid
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Re: BionX range

What works "for sure"?
A 2nd Bionx (or "fully" equivalent) battery, and a suitable high-current "battery" switch to choose battery A or B, not both.

When A runs low, stop, shut everything off, and switch to using B for extended range.

Probably, two similar batteries in parallel would work, but that would be an experiment ... that should be done WITH CAUTION.
Shorting one battery to another has risks.

Cheers, Gary
XM-5000Li, wired for cell voltage measuring and logging.

adamtki
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Re: BionX range

Anyone know the exact type of battery Bionx uses?

ItsElectric
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Re: BionX range

Bionx use Sony Manganese battery. which is listed on youtube:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5qXjEgAoQdI&feature=channel_page

We are very close to have Bionx long range battery modification.

Ken

tunnsie
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Re: BionX range

I have a pl-250 and I have to say that I have been totally unimpressed with the range. Best I can get is 20 miles on level 2. That's with no wind. Against any wind, maybe 12 miles. I had to purchase another charger so that I could charge the battery while at work. 19k one way to work. Against a wind I will use up the entire battery on level 2. Level 1 is useless as it only compensates for the motor drag.
I thought at first based on the claims of bionx that there was something wrong such as a bad cell or some bad drain on the battery. However it's been checked twice, thrice and there is nothing apparently wrong with the system. Or at least that is what the vendor is saying. I put it on blocks and twist tied the throttle to see how long it would last.
12k only. That's with 0 load on the wheel. I think that either there really is something wrong or the stats on Bionx's web page are in need to re-writing.

adamtki
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Re: BionX range

I searched for those Sony batteries before, but couldn't really find them. I guess if I did, I wouldn't even know what to do with them. But if you have a kit that can extend the range, I'd be anxious to see the set up. I have the 10ah 36V battery. Another 5ah would be excellent to tack on. I could extend my 40 miles level 3 range to 60 miles at level 3.

adamtki
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Re: BionX range

The PL 250 was my first kit. Initially, I got a range of 25 miles at level 3. After about 6,000 miles, it is now down to about 18 miles at level 3.

Tire width and type and rider weight makes a big difference. I was using 28mm slick tires and I only weigh 150lbs.

ashby3
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Re: BionX range

I am really looking forward to hearing what ItsElectric is up to - Any News???

If you need someone to help test let me know.

Ashby

Bbbashful
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Re: BionX range

I have only had my new PL350 for a few days now and RANGE is a big issue for me. My biggest concern at the moment is the accuracy of the battery gauge on the controller. When the battery is fully charged, the battery gauge shows 7 bars and a tiny partial bar on the left side. The voltage reading using code 3772 shows 41.8 Volts. I went for a 12km ride this morning and when I got back I was down to only 5 full bars showing. At first impression, it looks like I have drained the battery by 1/4 to 1/3 of it's power. However, when I checked the voltage it showed 40.2 Volts. I hope to get a handle on this in order to determine a better idea of how far I can go without ruining the battery.
I spoke to the dealer that I purchased my BionX from and he told me to be sure to NEVER let the voltage in the battery drop below 17 Volts. If the voltage gets below 17, the charger will not work from such a low level and the battery will have to be returned to BionX for servicing.
Does anyone have any experience with this?

macnobili
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Re: BionX range

Hi
I have the bionx 500HS but the same battery as yours. I found the same thing as you. The accuracy of the gauge seems bad. This is probably to protect the system on the long term. I tried once (see my forum) to discharge de batttery totaly by putting it horizontally and fix the lever so that the motor runs. It went on for 2 hours . When the motor stopped, I still had 28 volts using the 3772 code. I also tried to run the bike even when the jauge shows empty. I did 8 km extra and it was still working fine. Hovever, I wouldnt try this to often because the lithium batterys dont like full discharge. YOU CAN RUIN IT !
Hope this helps.
Also another thing: you will see that your range will drop significantly in winter (at least 30% less). Dont worry (like I did ) it will rise back with the nice sunny days !

SErge

Bbbashful
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Re: BionX range

Thank you macnobili for this reply.

I feel that I don't have to worry about damaging the battery because the BionX PL350 system appears to be "idiot proof". After reading your blog and all of the replies, I feel much more confident.

PLEASE correct me if I'm wrong, but as a result of reading all of this information I assume that I can safely do the following:

The battery can be "fully" charged after every use even if it's only been used for a small distance. The battery charger should be turned off once the light on the charger turns green.

The battery can be used down to 21 Volts with no harm to the battery. Even though the gauge shows "empty", the 3772 code can be used to give a more accurate reading of the voltage.

The motor needs a minimum of 28 volts to operate so there is no risk of running the battery too low by running the system even though the gauge reads "empty".

I can use regeneration primarily for braking and speed control when going downhill. Regeneration is highly over-rated and really won't contribute much to increasing the range of travel. The great benefit of regeneration is the braking, especially when it's raining and the brake pads are wet. As long as the battery has a bit of discharge, I can use the braking power of the motor with no harm being done to the battery.

macnobili
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Re: BionX range

The battery can be "fully" charged after every use even if it's only been used for a small distance. The battery charger should be turned off once the light on the charger turns green.
yes

The battery can be used down to 21 Volts with no harm to the battery. Even though the gauge shows "empty", the 3772 code can be used to give a more accurate reading of the voltage.
yes but some people say that the voltage fluctuates while driving so itis possible that it goes momentarily low. What is important is not to leave the battery low.
The motor needs a minimum of 28 volts to operate so there is no risk of running the battery too low by running the system even though the gauge reads "empty".
Yes but I dont do it as a precaution. I charge it when there is the little last mark left on the controller.
I can use regeneration primarily for braking and speed control when going downhill. Regeneration is highly over-rated and really won't contribute much to increasing the range of travel.
true
The great benefit of regeneration is the braking, especially when it's raining and the brake pads are wet. As long as the battery has a bit of discharge, I can use the braking power of the motor with no harm being done to the battery.
yes

Bbbashful
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Re: BionX range

I learned today that I can check the battery voltage with my volt meter. The socket on the battery where the charger is plugged in has four holes and they have a small number beside each of them from 1 to 4. The positive is number 4 and the negative is number 2. When I used the 3772 code to check the voltage, it was higher than what my volt meter indicated. I'm not sure which of the two readings is the most accurate one.

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