Would anyone happen to know, based on maybe inside knowledge, why the Vectrix Lithium battery project failed? This article http://www.examiner.com/x-14333-Green-Transportation-Examiner~y2009m7d21-Why-Vectrix-is-teetering-on-bankruptcy-pt-III indicates that Vectrix spent $5 million in a failed attempt to develop Lithium batteries for the bike. Obviously, that does not bode very well for some people on this forum that probably think at some point, when their batteries fail, that they will be converting their bikes to Lithium.
So what was the final engineering obstacle that Vectrix was unable to overcome? Was it cost, heat build up, battery failure or something else? The fact that Tesla Motors and other electric bike manufacturers are able to use Lithium batteries, makes it seem possible, but evidently Vectrix didn't find a satisfactory solution. Anyone happen to know the biggest problem they ran into?
One thing this forum has helped me answer, is the question I have always had, and that is why hasn't the Prius made a model that runs on just batteries alone? Evidently it is because while NIMH batteries work very well in their mid-range, and they don't like to be overcharged, or have a deep discharge done to them regularly. I'm pretty sure that Toyota found this out, and that's why they didn't come out with a Prius with a battery only option. You probably would have to have very careful battery management to do it, and even then it probably leads to problems.
Vectrix seems to have only half way figured out the issues, and if car drivers had the range problems and other issues we have, they would be livid after spending 25K+ on a vehicle. However, the fact that your don't hear of Prius owners with battery problems speaks very well to how good NIMH batteries are if used under the right conditions. However, I don't anything anyone has had enough experience with Lithium yet to say that for sure.
recent email from K2 batteries:
From: Mark Stoker [mark.stoker [at] k2battery.com]">mailto:mark.stoker [at] k2battery.com]
Sent: Monday, August 03, 2009 9:10 PM
To: Robert Millman
Subject: Re: batteries for Vectrix
Robert,
It is almost complete. We have the battery and are finishing testing of the BMS.
The battery is 128V 32Ah and weights less than 50% of the NiMH.
How many are you looking to purchase?
Best Regards,
Mark
Sounds great. How are you planning on integrating it with the on-board systems? Are you also going to "rip and replace" the BMS and Charger? Or have you (or K2) managed to develop something that will integrate well with the VX's systems?
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NJSteve - I've no idea why the VX battery project failed. However, you only list technical reasons. It's also possible it failed because of project management, contract negotiations, lack of cash or bad timing.
John H. Founder of Current Motor Company - opinions on this site belong to me; not to my employer
Remember: " 'lectric for local. diesel for distance" - JTH, Amp Bros || "No Gas.
Something I'm sure most of you on this forum are aware of: Nissan are intending to build a totally electric Lithium powered car for 2010 mass production so they would appear to have (or are hoping to by the time of launch) succeeded.
I'm very skeptical when I see posts like this after Vectrix may have spent so much trying. Yes, they may have been other reasons than technical reasons, and I suspect the program wasn't actually canceled, but may have been still ongoing at the time of Vectrix's failure. But that's why I asked, to see what we might be up against if we try a conversion.
Yes Lithium seems to be the way everything is headed, but until it is out in the marketplace and in use for awhile you never really know. And the manufacturer could always pull the program at the last minute sighting problems.
it would be pointless to me if these new batteries would not make the vectrix scooter
go over 100 miles. and looking at the 128v and 32ah .. doesn't sound enough .??? 50% lighter sounds nice .kev
Well, depends on your searching...
There have been and there are problems with the Prius NiMH batteries, but they pale in comparison to the VX-1 disaster.
Compare that 10 year old BMS out of a Japanese Prius MK1 to the rudimentary excuse in the VX-1!
These batteries had the same problem that the VX-1 has: The sticks are arranged in a "3p7s" way for air cooling. Electrically they are all in series, like in the VX-1.
That causes temperature differences and imbalance and early death.
The NHW11 and NHW20 batteries in the later generation Prii are arranged in "all parallel" setup for air cooling (or heating) purposes. All cells get almost the same amount of cooling, they stay much more balanced and the pack lasts much longer.
In the NHW10 packs each cell has a temp sensor on it, but they are all connected in series and therefore not "identifiable". In addition there are 8 temp sensors in the whole pack which are separately connected and identifiable to the BMS.
This information may be used entirely at your own risk.
There is always a way if there is no other way!
Mik,
As of April of last year Toyota pasted the 1 million mark of total Prius's sold worldwide with US sales probably in excess of 100K per year. With that quantity I'm sure I could find failures and customer complaints if I searched. But despite that many sold, the car to my knowledge doesn't have a reputation of battery problems. And although while I admit I don't know much about the Prius battery systems, I would guess that there might be a chance that drivers might be able to overlook failing batteries much easier than we can in a Vectrix. While mileage range makes a big difference to Vectrix owner's, my guess is that Prius owners just get worse gas mileage when the gas engine takes up more of the work of driving the car. So in effect, minor failures possibly could happen with some Prius customers hardly realizing it.
Interesting info about the Prius batteries. If you happen to be able to post pictures of the other battery packs, I would be interested. Thanks.