XM-3100

It is the same quality as 2007 ZAPINO...

Is that bad? 2 years on SLA batteries is average, no?

Hi.

I think that post was intended in support of the XM-3100. I own several XM scooters (see my signature line) and I sold around 20 or so before starting my own venture.

Here's my personal opinion - take it for what it's worth:

At that price it's well worth buying that bike if and only if you are prepared to "tinker" with it. If you're expecting a bike that you can simply uncrate and then ride for 2 years without a care in the world you're going to be disappointed. If, on the other hand, you're looking for a low cost way into EV ownership - how can you beat that price? (hint: you can't!)

You will likely have to deal with some electrical and mechanical gremlins. They probably won't be that bad - but they might be frustrating and they might leave you stranded until you iron out the kinks. For example the fuses used on all my XM bikes are of VERY dubious quality - the conductor comes unseated from the end-cap of the fuse. Another slight issue I have is that the front right brake switch sticks - when the switch is stuck the controller is shut down. It's a simple issue and just needs a bit of wiggling to get going. Other things you might suffer from are an occasional bad charger, or a bad DC-DC. If you use your bike in a harsh environment (wet or dusty) you might expect to see more of these types of issues.

However, I've not heard of many (< 5%) folks who have had total failure of a major component. Also, although it can be a nightmare getting in contact with X-Treme they have usually come through and supplied replacement parts.

If you're at least a little mechanically inclined (or prepared to learn) I'd say go for it. I'd suggest that you use the bike until the batteries die - and they'll die before you expect them to (for any number of reasons - and often due to over enthusiastic use on the part of the owner). At that point pay around $1500 to $2000 for an upgrade to LiFePO4 batteries (and BMS and charger). My XM-3000 with a LiFePO4 upgrade is still a great little run around (I have about 3000 km's on it - but I have a lot of bikes to choose from!)

After putting 6000 miles on two different 3500li I can say that I agree with John. I have had no DC/DC converter failures, no fuse problems though. On one I did have the sticky brake switch problem. It was an easy fix and I posted how to do it. If you are not mechanically inclined I'm sure you will know someone who will be interested in EVs that will be willing to help if you need it. My experience has been mostly good. Of course I have tinkered allot and enjoy doing so. It sounds like Johns bikes are way ahead of the curve of what's out there now. I had to do alot of work and research to put together something like what John is producing. That does sound like a good deal though and maybe lithium Batt prices will come down in the mean time.

Thanks for the responses. I am mechanically inclined and love to tinker, so I'm not so much worried about that. My sense was that $1599 was a good entry price, and that seems to be confirmed. I think I'll go ahead a take the plunge. Thanks again for the advice.

Great - make sure you tell us how it all works out for you.

Bonne chance! Let us know how it goes...

So, I found an even better deal. I won an Ebay auction for an xm-3100 (brand new) for $1125! It should be here Monday. I also ordered everything I need for bank charging (5 Soneil 12v chargers). Any thoughts on the utility of a paktrakr?

Wow - that is a steal. Make sure they provide the MCO so you can register it.

I think a paktrakr is a good investment - it will help you monitor those SLAs and detect if you have a weak one or a bad charger. A customer of mine recently replaced his batteries with a new set of Greensavers (from siliconebatteriesusa.com) and, on my recommendation, went to bank charging. It turns out one of his five chargers was faulty - we think we caught it early enough to save the worst of the domino effect. However, careful monitoring would have caught this much sooner.

Enjoy your bike - and keep us posted.

The last two sold for about $925 and $825 on ebay.

Is anyone familiar with the arduino. From what I've read it could be easily adapted to measure pack voltages, current (with a shunt) and battery box temperature. Add a 16x4 LCD and it could be good to go. It would be ideal if it could track distance traveled too. Probably more tinkering than necessary, so the jury is still out.

Yup - that's also on my never ending list of "projects to do when I have time". As well as the standard arduino they now have an arduino mega with a bunch more io. If you wanted to be slick you could quite easily add an SD card for data logging (there are open source libraries and schematics out there for interfacing this to an arduino - check lady ada for one such source). You could also add a hall sensor input for speed and distance and then replace the whole dash.

So many fun projects. So little time!

Glad you got your bike and like it.

Sad to see them being dumped on ebay - but if it gets more folks riding EVs and one day upgrading to better EVs (hint-hint!) then it's all good...

If you do want to tackle an arduino dashboard drop me a line and we might be able to collaborate (but did I mention I don't have much time? ;-) )

I'm still undecided about the paktrakr, my mouse has hovered over the purchase button a few times, but I've thus far resisted. Is anyone familiar with the arduino. From what I've read it could be easily adapted to measure pack voltages, current (with a shunt) and battery box temperature. Add a 16x4 LCD and it could be good to go. It would be ideal if it could track distance traveled too. Probably more tinkering than necessary, so the jury is still out.

Yeah, like John I'm familiar with it but it's a time thing. I'm also familiar with the buglabs devices and would prefer that because it'd be programmed in Java. One thing is the paktrakr shows you per-battery voltage, not just pack voltage. A couple months ago I happened to get a chance to chat with the buglabs people about using it for this kinda thing, and while its easy to measure one voltage it's more involved to measure lots of voltages. They were talking to me about some kinda multiplexer circuit to read voltages. The buglabs device is also open source just like the arduino (if that's important to you).

The functionality you describe is very adequately implemented already in the Cycle Analyst. You can get low powered versions for bicycles and high powered versions that use a shunt for reading high amperages. I have several of these on bicycles and on my motorcycle, and think the world of them.

David, My cycle analyst speedometer works using a sensor you attach to the rim. Do you know if the ones that work using the hall sensors are adaptable to a kelly controller? I don't know how I did without it. Now I know for sure how far I can go...and allot more.

In addition, I plan to use a reed switch and magnet to measure speed and distance.

Why not tap into one of the hall effect sensors in the rear hub motor instead? You'll need to confirm how many times it fires per revolution (i.e. how many poles the motor has) - but that would be easy to determine with a little arduino app.

I just got one for around $800 (including shipping), which is a great deal!

Anyone know where the "Economy Speed Switch" is located, since it moved off the right handlebar? I took off the front fairing and didn't see it around the steering wheel column, so it's either back by the controller or completely disappeared.

Regards,
Dan

I just got 2 new XM-3100's also and the owners manual point to it but it is not there. I will have to do more research into wiring to find it if it was there. I measured my old Hall effect sensor on XM-3000 and switch was apparently built in to Throttle body sensor. Maybe it was removed like on R Martin got rid of it. Both my XM-3100's are faster off the line at red light. I have to get a new speedometer on one of my 3100's for odometer part work but not speedometer.
Rusty

Let us know what you find out. I'm hoping there's a loop of wire I can insert a 12K resister into and accomplish the same effect as the switch. The documentation on the wiring is pretty minimal. ;)

Maybe Mountain Chen can chime in and enlighten us?

Thanks,
Dan

I think I am as confused as most owners. My speedometer don't work but odometer does. Alpha say it is electronic?
As far as XM-3100 - No economy mode. Owners manual says yes. But I had to replace XM-3000 speed control an controller so for throttle body GRN to BLK it be about .7 volts or on my DMM 697. I get different resistance reading on wires using different meters 20,000 ohms per volt analog meter gives 3000 and 40000 between red and GRN between high and low speed switch moving. I will try to insert pix
Rusty

I just bought one of these xm3100 on ebay from getscooters for $620.00 and I am worried about the quality. Although I have not yet received it I cant help but wonder if I may have made a mistake. It seems there are lots of complaints about xtreme scooters reqarding customer support and reliability. I have tried to call them many times and no one ever answers the phone and you have to leave a message that no one ever returns. CAN ANYONE TELL ME IF I HAVE MADE A MISTAKE BUYING THIS SCOOOTER?

wow this thread just died 3 years ago and i am just finding it now! I also purchased an xm-3000 from ebay back in 2009 (paid around $550 including shipping!) though brand new out of the crate i charged it up and it never ran. i took some panels off and found a couple disconnected wires and connected them and still nothing.. eventually (after it sat for a couple years) i had someone else go over it and they got it working.. now all of a sudden (after about 30 miles on it) none of the lights or horn will work. i assumed it was a fuse but they're both fine (the two under the floor) - are there any more anywhere else or any other obvious things i should check?

Those fuses can look fine but still not pass current. Try replacing them with higher quality ones.

If you guys ever find wiring for a power/economy switch, you *can* change settings while moving, assuming they didn't add regenerative braking to the 3100 (I have an XM3000). You just have to make sure the throttle is closed (off) whenever you change modes.