After a long time without any issue on my beauty, here we go again...
I've been forced to disconnect the earth wire (the yellow one with a green line)from the plug where I recharge my vectrix!! Every time I tried to plug in the lights of the garage went out! A brief check out showed me astonishing results:
With vectrix unplugged:
voltage between phase and neutral: 233v AC
Voltage between phase and earth wire of the garage (unlinked to the plug): 239V AC
With vectrix plugged in, and earth wire from de garage disconnected from the plug:
Voltage between phase wire (brown) and vectrix's earth wire: 192V AC
Voltage between neutral wire (blue) and vectrix's earth wire: 58V AC
Can anybody check his vectrix's earth wire voltages(with neutral and phase) during recharge with the main earth wire disconected from the plug, please?? Don't know if this 192v-57v is normal... Anybody has any idea about what's going on inside my vectrix??
another question: Anybody knows if it's normal 239v between phase and earth?
Thanks!!
Apart from this, my vectrix behaves as usual...
Voltage between phase and earth wire of the garage (unlinked to the plug): 239V AC
Voltage between phase wire (brown) and vectrix's earth wire: 192V AC
Voltage between neutral wire (blue) and vectrix's earth wire: 58V AC
pd: have a look at my recharging station... looks nice!
ive had this problem before
mine was the extra wire in my plug touching the neutral.
the Vectrix charger is setup to work with a smart grid, where if the grid is under heavy load, it can tell the vectrix charger to shut down for a while.
no-one has a smart grid yet, so this isn't used.
the special plugs used were changed by the dealers to the correct plug for your location.
but in every vectrix, the charging cable has an extra wire, that runs all the way to our power plug, and is connected to the Vectrix frame.
the vectrix frame is connected to ground.
so, id suggest pulling your plug apart to see if the extra wire is going places it shouldn't be.
Matt
Daily Ride:
2007 Vectrix, modified with 42 x Thundersky 60Ah in July 2010. Done 194'000km
Matt, was that the reason for the problems with timers not working for your Vectrix?
This information may be used entirely at your own risk.
There is always a way if there is no other way!
nope, they still don't work (though my new 30A rated one works fine).
Matt
Daily Ride:
2007 Vectrix, modified with 42 x Thundersky 60Ah in July 2010. Done 194'000km
I've conducted some data recording with 6 different vectrix and different plugs. All vectrix can experience this voltage effect, depending on the plug where the vectrix is recharged...
I can't understand why happens. I encourage everybody to test their vectrix's frame voltage with the ground wire disconnected when recharging. I'll post further data tomorrow...
The VECTRIX uses a "Switching" type charger, and in order to comply with radiated emissions of electromagnetic (radio) waves, capacitors are connected from the power leads to frame ground. These capacitors allow an A.C. voltage to be impressed on the frame, which is removed/limited by the safety "Ground" wire. Usage with some circuits, such as those protected by a "Ground Fault Detector" will result in switch-off of the power, in response to this small leakage current. Nothing is wrong with the VECTRIX in such a case, but operation on such circuits will be difficult or impossible. (If you operate without the ground wire connected, the bike will charge, but a voltage WILL appear on the frame, presenting a ossible electrical shock hazard)-Bob Curry
Robert M. Curry
thank's marylandbob!
very interesting explanation!
1-
2-
3-
Obviusly, there's something WRONG in the vectrix. It is not safe to charge this bike discconnected from the ground!! And it is impossible for me to recharge it with the ground wire connected, as the Ground Fault Detector turns off the electric supply!!...
My brother's Vectrix came to have a check at the plug:
Aleix's vectrix frame -phase = 140V AC
Aleix's vectrix frame-neutral = 96v AC
Here comes an astonishing result!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Voltage between one Vectrix frame and another Vectrix frame, all both plugged in the same plug (without ground wire)!!! =69v AC!!
Here comes one crucial question: why two vectrix plugged in the same place imprint different voltage to the frame???
But now comes the funny part: Depending on the place I plug my Vectrix, the voltage turns out to be different... In one place the voltage was zero V AC to all vectrix tested... If anybody can answer this question I'll be very grateful: Why some plugs imprint 200V to V's frame, and other plugs imprint 26-20 or zero volts? Unluckily the 200v place is my recharging place....
I charge from a GROUNDED A.C. outlet, WITHOUT "ground fault" protection, and have no problems. Differing stray voltages will appear on an UNGROUNDED vectrix if powered from A.C. power that comes from a "DELTA" feed versus a "Y" feed. When fed from a "DELTA" supply feeder, both sides of the A.C. line are high with respect to ground (earth), but a "Y" fed line has one side of the connection near zero volts with respect to ground (earth)-this may be a factor in your adventures.--Bob
Robert M. Curry
I have 240V AC with Ground, Active (240V compared to ground) and Neutral (OV compared to Ground, 240V compared to Active). It's all connected with a residual current device (RCD, I think it's the Aussi name for "Ground Fault Protection"). So according to your explanation this is a Y-configuration.
All power points around here seem to be wired that way, because I carry a small tester with three LED's which plugs into "unknown" power points; the combination of LED's lighting up shows if the power point is wired correctly.
As far as I know, all power points which I have used are RCD protected, it's the law around here. I also used to carry a portable RCD which is the first thing I plug into the outlet, just in case a malfunction in the Vectrix makes it go live relative to Ground.
I never had any problems with an RCD opening due to the Vectrix. Only the odd overloaded circuit breaker due to multiple devices piggi-backed onto the same line.
This information may be used entirely at your own risk.
There is always a way if there is no other way!
Thanks everyone for all the great info on this issue!! I just recently started having this problem while charging at work (hooking up to an outdoor GFCI outlet) so it was great to hear the explanation. It is odd that I didn't have any issues during the first few months of use, but it's now become part of my routine to head out every break to reset the GFCI so as to allow continued charging. Also odd how this is not a problem at all on my GFCI-protected outlet in the garage at home where I also routinely charge up. Do you think it would help to otherwise run a grounding wire from the frame to a grounding rod using a stretch of wire and some quick clips so any stray voltages head to true ground instead of the outlet ground?
It is likely/possible that not all "Ground Fault Protected" breakers and outlets have the identical trip settings for leakage current, and also possible that in cases of multiple devices being powered by ONE such protector, that the SUM of the individual leakage currents could combine to trip it to the "OFF" position. I have also personally found that some of these devices will switch OFF in the presence of RADIO WAVE type of interference, as they tend to be manufactured cheaply, to maximize profits. Using a 2,000 watt ISOLATION TRANSFORMER, and grounding the VECTRIX would likely solve the problem, but who wants to buy or carry around a big, expensive, 50 pound (About 23 KILOGRAM) transformer?---Bob Curry
Robert M. Curry