new tickets on my xb700

Hello Jerseygirl. - Probably no one is answering your question because they would
expect you to check out the New Jersey DMV for their laws relating to your class of
vehicle (moped, scooter, motorcycle, etc.) - Why should anyone else do that for you ?
Would you then hold them responsible for their interpretation of the law ? -

Hello Jerseygirl. - Probably no one is answering your question because they would
expect you to check out the New Jersey DMV for their laws relating to your class of
vehicle (moped, scooter, motorcycle, etc.) - Why should anyone else do that for you ?
Would you then hold them responsible for their interpretation of the law ? -

Aww c'mon, don't be so hard, JerseyGirl is only asking for help! Still, GaryB has a valid point!
Jerseygirl, your first stop should be to consult a manager at the NJDMV. The NJ Department of Human Services, has a Division of Developmental Disabilities, headed by the dedicated Mr Joseph Amoroso, is also willing to assist you in liaising with the NJDMV.

I don't know the nature of your disability, but I would suspect that the EV model you have chosen is simply too slow and underpowered to be considered safe to operate in mainstream traffic. Perhaps the DMV can advise you of what sort of vehicle is permitted on NJ roads.

Joe Amoroso, may also assist with information concerning disabled grants and entitlements available in New Jersey. These may help to select a more suitable vehicle for your needs.

NJ Governor Chris Christies' office can also assist when dealing with obstinate or unreasonable officials. (especially the local cop! Amazing what a call from the Gov's office can achieve).

As for the tickets, well I would recommend writing a polite letter to the Cop's Chief/prosecutor outlining your problem, and ask that the violation be rescinded due to your special circumstance, or a least until a DMV ruling is obtained.

Good Luck!

Basically, in NJ an electric bicycle is a moped and has to be registered and licensed. But you can only register mopeds that the state lists as compliant with their regs, and no electric bike is on that list so you can't register and license it.

I've written several state legislators asking they review this law and bring it more in line with the rest of the country, but no joy.

It is particularly galling that a "non-tandem", self-stabilizing electric vehicle, i.e., Segway, IS street legal in NJ.

There's a good discussion about this issue under the "Bionx" threads.

Don't know about using the mobility laws. Limited mobility is why I put a Bionx kit on my bicycle. Could work.

Hello Jerseygirl. - Probably no one is answering your question because they would
expect you to check out the New Jersey DMV for their laws relating to your class of
vehicle (moped, scooter, motorcycle, etc.) - Why should anyone else do that for you ?
Would you then hold them responsible for their interpretation of the law ? -

Aww c'mon, don't be so hard, JerseyGirl is only asking for help! Still, GaryB has a valid point!
Jerseygirl, your first stop should be to consult a manager at the NJDMV. The NJ Department of Human Services, has a Division of Developmental Disabilities, headed by the dedicated Mr Joseph Amoroso, is also willing to assist you in liaising with the NJDMV.

I don't know the nature of your disability, but I would suspect that the EV model you have chosen is simply too slow and underpowered to be considered safe to operate in mainstream traffic. Perhaps the DMV can advise you of what sort of vehicle is permitted on NJ roads.

Joe Amoroso, may also assist with information concerning disabled grants and entitlements available in New Jersey. These may help to select a more suitable vehicle for your needs.

NJ Governor Chris Christies' office can also assist when dealing with obstinate or unreasonable officials. (especially the local cop! Amazing what a call from the Gov's office can achieve).

As for the tickets, well I would recommend writing a polite letter to the Cop's Chief/prosecutor outlining your problem, and ask that the violation be rescinded due to your special circumstance, or a least until a DMV ruling is obtained.

Good Luck!

Hello marcopolo. You are right ! I should not have been so hard on Jerseygirl (and that was a bit of a ‘throw it back at you’ comment I made. Sorry- (and, i apologize, Jerseygirl) - I did not pay sufficient attention to the point you made about a disability. - When I think about riding scooters like the xb700 I don’t very much consider disabilities. I also looked up just what an xb700 is ! - marcopolo provided some very good advice. - This thread also provoked me to think more about how disability would apply to such a situation. (?) - It depends, of course, on the nature of the disability and how that might relate to safety issues for the rider (and others). Someone else (on this same thread) made a related comment that I will pursue regarding that different thread. - Thanks.

Basically, in NJ an electric bicycle is a moped and has to be registered and licensed. But you can only register mopeds that the state lists as compliant with their regs, and no electric bike is on that list so you can't register and license it.

I've written several state legislators asking they review this law and bring it more in line with the rest of the country, but no joy.

It is particularly galling that a "non-tandem", self-stabilizing electric vehicle, i.e., Segway, IS street legal in NJ.

There's a good discussion about this issue under the "Bionx" threads.

Don't know about using the mobility laws. Limited mobility is why I put a Bionx kit on my bicycle. Could work.

cyclepete. - I respect your efforts to get clarification of the NJ law. - (Much needed.) - I'm also going to pick up on the 'Bionx' thread (because i know absolutely nothing about it and it is probably good information to be exposed to.) - Thank you. -

I know nothing about US law and very little about Oz law, but I'm pretty sure that here if you're re-charged for the same offence by the same officer when it's already been dismissed by the courts you can file a complaint of harassment against the officer concerned and all the charges have to be dropped if the complaint is upheld.

=:)

Yeah, I know you should be right, but actually the rule of Double Jeopardy, doesn't really apply in traffic cases.

The NJ Cop is not a bad guy, perhaps a little pedantic, but only obeying what his superiors have instructed him is his duty.

After all, the vehicle jersygirl has chosen is not really compatible with NJ traffic. However,Jerseygirl, the local police chief/prosecutor should exercise discretion and withdraw the notice. If after contacting the officials I suggested, you receive no response, I can refer you to a crusading law firm to continue the fight 'pro bono'

HR 727 is concerned with how the Federal Consumer and Product Safety Commision regulates bicycles. It says that a bike with an electric motor of less 750 watts and a max unassisted speed of 20 mph is a bicycle in terms of the safety equipment it needs to be sold with. This was to fix a FHTSA law that said if an electric bike could move without pedaling it was a moped and must be sold with moped equipment. So many electric bicycles being sold were "non-conforming" mopeds. Now they are "bicycles".

This has nothing to do with state licensing and registration for road use - it just says what needs to be on an electric bicycle so it can legally be imported and sold.

To quote wikipedia on NJ law: "Under New Jersey law a motorized bicycle is "a pedal bicycle having a helper motor characterized in that either the maximum piston displacement is less than 50 cc, the motor is rated at no more than 1.5 brake horsepower, or it is powered by an electric drive motor and the bicycle is capable of a maximum speed of no more than 25 miles per hour on a flat surface."[53] This would include E-bikes, meaning they must be titled and registered. However, only Mopeds approved by Motor Vehicle Services can be titled and registered."

I checked with the NJ MVS 2-3 years ago and they said no electric bicycles were approved as mopeds and so can't be registerd and titled so can't used on public roads even if you have a moped license.

What makes me mad is that NJ passed A3984 in 2001. This is a law allowing Segways to be operated on sidewalks, public highways and bicycle trails without the need for registration or a license. You can see it here: http://www.njleg.state.nj.us/2000/Bills/PL01/430_.HTM

Note the phrase "self-balancing non-tandem two wheeled device". But it was amended so that you have to be a government employee using it for official business, or using it as part of your duties at a commercial establishment, or have a mobility-related disability.

Segway had a lobby but nobody is lobbying to get electric bicycles recognized for street use as bicycles. A real shame, as they would appeal to a lot of people who use bicycles as transportation but are having physical disability problems (i.e., me), as well as people trying to start bicycling again, or people with long commutes. Most electric assist bicycles ARE bicycles for all practical purposes -they have the footprint of a bicycle, pedal and handle like a bicycle, can't go any faster than a bicycle, etc. They just provide some energy assist and help you go up hills.

All I can suggest is you show the above Segway law to the police, saying you are allowed to use an "electric personal assitance mobility device" due to your disability, and hope they don't notice the part about "self-balancing and non-tandem wheels".

Please refer me to any lawyer who would take my case pro bono as I am on SSI and a single mother just trying to get by---I would appreciate any and all help that you could provide----thank you very much

Ok, first of all Denise, you should write to Mr Joseph Amoroso, NJ Department of Human Services, Disabilities Division, (or go to see them). Next you should contact, Ask A Lawyer Online, this is a free service online. NJ also has a very active Free Legal aid service in most areas, of the State. Many of the Lawyers working for Legal Aid will contact the prosecutor and in the circumstances will usually resolve the issue.

But although you may avoid the fines, it would appear that unless you can persuade the NJDMV to change it regulations, you can't operate on the public roads.

Although some States allow NEV's, and other power assisted slow moving vehicles to operate on the public highways, others consider them pests, dangerous to traffic and a liability to the operator!

(How anyone could allow a Segeway on the highway is beyond me!).

I think a Judge may feel a disabled person operating a two-wheeled vehicle in heavy traffic, uninsured, to be an unreasonable risk.

Another method would be simply register the EV in another State which permits EV mopeds. The Federal Laws protect 'visiting traffic'. (it would help to live near the State border).

I would also contact the office of NJ Lt. Governor Kim Guadagno. I know she has a reputation as a hard case 'law and order' exponent, but she is also very mindful of the political need to be seen to care about more compasionate issues, especially with environmental overtones.

Best of Luck

I think the OP is full of it..
Let's find out why I think that.

1.) Look at one of the tickets she got..
No DL.
That speaks volumes right there.

2.) Says she has a back problem, so why ride an electric bike?
Not that good for you with a bad back.

3.) Tried to use HR 727 as an excuse.
Everyone without a license tries to use that to use an electric bike when they live in a state where you need a DL to ride a moped.

4,) Notice that she said she brought "paperwork" with her the first time she went to court.
What paperwork are you talking about?

Well, at this point you have one thing to do and 3 choices.

The one thing you need to do is beg the DA to drop the charges since the first time you went to court, they dismissed it.

Your three choices are these...
1.) Move to a state that considers your electric bike a regular bicycle.
(That's what I did when I lost my license)
OR
2.) Sell your e-bike and get an actual mobility scooter and ride on the sidewalk.
Yea, it's not as "cool" as an electric bike, but trust me, no cop is going to stop you on a mobility scooter.
(Plus mobility scooters probably only go 10mph max.)
OR
3.) Get an electric bicycle (that looks like a regular bicycle) and is the pedal assist only type (no throttle) and you will have no problems ever.

The cop probably stopped her because she was riding something that resembles a scooter.. They just LOVE to see unregistered scooters on the road. (sarcasm)
I bet you, if she was riding any kind of electric bicycle other than the ones that look like scooters, she probably wouldn't have been stopped in the first place.

I think the OP is full of it..Let's find out why I think that.

Francis, over the years we have exposed a number of oddballs, conmen, cranks, spamsters and even radically mad chipmunks, on this forum.

For all I know, you may be right, Jerseygirl maybe just another of these characters and we will never hear from her again.

Then again, she may be genuine.

If so, I would hate to think that we automatically thought her plight was not worth assisting. I have offered jerseygirl the assistance of an attorney, prepared to act pro-bono, as long as Jerseygirl is bone fide. I have also contacted the NJ dept of Human Services, who are prepared to assist. (again if she if bone fide and actually exists).

I guess we can judge from her response to the help offered, if she is genuine and authentic.

Just out of curiosity, which State did you move to?

I live in Florida now.
I originally moved because my son's mother passed away and most of my family moved to Florida years prior so I decided that moving was a good idea.
It had the added benefit of the fact that I could ride an electric bicycle as a method of transportation.
I just think that the OP had too many holes in her story, is all.

I don't see any holes. It all seems strightforward enough. And I don't see how it's jerseygirl's fault that the NJ laws make no sense: electric bikes are mopeds, but they can't be registered as mopeds so they can't be used at all (on the highway), even though segways and bicycles can. Where is the sense in that?

Even marcopolo (who disapproves of both) recognises that there is no real difference between a bicycle and a low-power electric bike.

It does seem that the only way to avoid future aggravation is to get a different vehicle (and/or spend an immense amount of time/effort getting the law fixed).

That was pretty much my point from the beginning..
You have to ask WHY she doesn't have a DL.
The reason for the crazy law is this..
I've said this before...
Used to be, that people that got a DUI could then ride mopeds. (At the time, no DL needed - because people mostly used them off road, so there was really no need for DL or registration or anything like that)
Then they started riding drunk on mopeds and so the law was changed for needing a DL and reg and all that.
THEN here comes electric scooters and electric bicycles and you can guess what happened then..
Yep! Needing a DL for any kind of moped including electric.
There are DOT requirements for vehicles wanting to travel on the road at certain speeds..
As a general rule, bicycles are not required to follow DOT guidelines for on road use. That was why HR 727 was ultimately enacted.
As of this date, I don't know of any DOT approved bicycle parts. (tires, frames, lights, etc)

Now realize, also, that until recent times most bicyclists just rode for fun and didn't generally travel at rates of speed higher then 12-15 mph.
With the advent of carbon fiber 10lb bikes and bicycle outfits, more people have been riding faster.
90% of electric bicycle riders in MY area, NEVER pedal. And the newest e-bikes can easily achieve 20-25 mph. Most drivers on the road are next expecting a bicycle to be traveling that fast.

I have to add this is MY OPINION, otherwise everyone and their mother will be complaining.

I don't see any holes. It all seems strightforward enough. And I don't see how it's jerseygirl's fault that the NJ laws make no sense

I think we all agree that for NJDVR to discriminate on the basis of the power source, is a fine obdurate example of bureaucratic decision making! I mean, if you can licence a Segeway to be on the highway for goodness sake! No moped could be more dangerous, or more absurd! At least electric mopeds are inherently safer to the rider without an exhaust, and attendant pollution. My objection is that these vehicles are inherently incompatible with fast moving heavy traffic, especially with the silly popularity of SUV's in urban areas.

I think, GaryB, Francis are suspicious that Jerseygirl's circumstances just don't ring true! From time to time we have various posters appear on this forum, often in response a legitimate issue, but when the personal circumstances are put to the test, they turn out to be either fantasy or have a hidden agenda. Sometimes the authors just invent the circumstances to add credibility to their case, or obscure who they really are, others have more sinister motives.

But as I say, Jerseygirls bone fides will be proven by her response!

While I was typing this I Sansef's reply has been posted. His explanation makes a lot of sense, except that in nearly every state and modern country, operating any conveyance (even horse, or animal drawn) on a public highway, while under the influence of drink or drugs, is punishable by law. This includes mopeds and bicycles.(Segeways too!)

In outback Australia, a case against a man driving a Camel drawn buggy home from the Pub with a blood alcohol reading of 0.21 was prosecuted. His explanation that the Camel 'was on the waggon' and therefore sober, was not accepted!

Other road users have a right to expect that all the operators of vehicles sharing the road space, are bound by the same rules of fitness to operate, can be held accountable, and are insured and licenced.

Cyclists have no such responsibility, yet, in an over regulated world I would be very reluctant to require cyclists to be subject to even more onerous controls.

Just about every law that is passed is politically motivated to some extent.
It still amazes me how they can regulate a bicycle with either a gas or electric motor as anything but a regular bicycle.
(As long as the speed is within reasonable limits, say 25mph, as most avid bicyclists with a 10 speed can achieve such speeds.)

However all states (and municipalities) are allowed to make up any law they see fit as to what is or is not allowed on their roads.
It's all politcal. As a few other posters have stated, it's either follow the law, fight against the law (politically) or move to a place that has the laws you agree with.

Just my .02
(Ya ever notice that it's a penny for your thoughts, but you have to put your 2 cents in.. someone's making a penny!)

Just about every law that is passed is politically motivated to some extent.
However all states (and municipalities) are allowed to make up any law they see fit as to what is or is not allowed on their roads. It's all politcal. As a few other posters have stated, it's either follow the law, fight against the law (politically) or move to a place that has the laws you agree with.

Well, that democracy for you! However, I support local and regional differences in laws and regulations as conditions are different form one region to another and smaller in administrative areas, elected leaders are better able to hold the bureaucracy accountable.

But disturbingly, there is a growing trend to believe that passing a law, no matter how unenforcable, solves a problem! Mostly, new laws and regulations just create more problems!

(Ya ever notice that it's a penny for your thoughts, but you have to put your 2 cents in.. someone's making a penny!)

Heh,heh,hah...

Well, I guess we'll never find out how,or if Jerseygirl solved her problem!

Actually, we'll probably never know what her story was really all about, since, as predicted, when put to the test, jerseygirl went silent.

We live in strange times!

!!!!??!!

Well, I guess that's another case of be careful what you ask for, or you might actually get a deluge!

HR727 has nothing to do with state laws.
It has to deal with SAFETY EQUIPMENT needed for an electric bicycle to classify it as one for SELLING throughout the country.
All the D.A. Has to do is to pull up the definition of a moped....

Here it is direct from the NJ DMV website...
A motorized bicycle (moped) is defined by law as a pedal bicycle with a helper motor, ELECTRIC or gas-powered, capable of a maximum speed of no more than 25 miles per hour on a flat surface.

In the moped manual from the state website. It's states clear as day that in order to ride a moped, you need either a moped, motorcycle OR basic auto Drivers License.

I seriously doubt that you NEED an electric bicycle.
If you can ride an electric bicycle, you can ride a regular bicycle.
If you DO win and can show with documented proof that all the charges were dropped (not a plea for a lesser charge) then I will personally MOVE BACK TO NJ and kiss your feet, because I know for a fact you won't win.

In an arraignment, there is no DA to "fight for the state". When you actually go to court, the D.A. WILL have the documents I just pointed out.
So now, not only will you have to pay the fines, you'll also have to pay the court costs.

The xb700 does not look like a "typical" electric bicycle, you fully well know that it looks alot more like a scooter or moped then a regular e-bike, and exactly the reason you bought it.
It also is probably 4x's the cost of a regular bicycle with an electric kit.

If you actually win, I would call every newspaper you know and tell them your story and make sure that they contact all of the people in the state legislature to have them change every law written in the NJ statutes concerning mopeds and remove the section that references electric motors, so that it reads only gas powered bicycles.
(P.S. The state is not going to change the definitions just for you, when everyone else has to follow the rules, no matter what your situation is).
FYI.. I dont care about your situation.. That has no bearing on what the laws are...
For whatever reason you lost your license, you did. The main reason I left NJ myself was because it is one of the worst states concerning the DMV and Insurance surcharges and insurance rates and the costs of every single ticket received concerning motor vehicles.
/
Why do you NEED an electric bike. Sell it and get yourself a mobility scooter. Easy. Done.

I have to agree with JerseyGirl regarding back issues. My back is so bad sometimes that I cannot sit in a chair. Riding in a car for more than a short while is excruciating. But I can easily ride my bicycle. Something about the riding position really helps. Even though I currently have my bike dialed-in to be pretty upright ( due to my neck problems) I can use my legs and arms as shocks to help protect my back from jolts, plus I have a seat and fork shock. I can go quite a long time very comfortably on the bike. The hardest part is mounting and dismounting.

But I also agree that HR727 is no defense. The lawyer must not have read it carefully. Still, if it worked I'd be happy although it would be a major blow to state's rights since it would let a government consumer agency force road rules on states.

My electric assisted bicycle looks very much like a bicycle, which is no surprise considering it is a standard hybrid bicycle. The rear hub motor wheel is not that noticible, especially since I always have a pannier on my rear rack. The only thing noticible is the Bionx battery mounted in the bicycle's triangle. I almost always use my bike in pedal assist since I want the exercise, although does have a throttle-only mode. A police officer in south Jersey did comment one time when he saw me coasting a long distance, saying he realized my bike must have a motor since I coasted so far and fast - funny thing is I was just coasting! He didn't want to give me a ticket or anything, he was just curious as a lot of people are when they realize I have an assist on the bike. Quite a number of people have said they want one, until they hear the price.

ANYWAY - I would love the law changed. Not because I'm afraid I'll get a ticket. But if I was ever in an accident and got injuried, I'm afraid that using a vehicle that is illegal for street use would hurt recovery from insurance, mine or others.

As for using a mobility scooter - those are slow speed devices for going down the sidewalk a few blocks or getting around inside a store. You need a bicycle, assisted or not, for real transportation.They are not the same function.

As for using a mobility scooter - those are slow speed devices for going down the sidewalk a few blocks or getting around inside a store. You need a bicycle, assisted or not, for real transportation.They are not the same function.

I have to disagree. I have three people in my town who ride anywhere from a couple of blocks to up to 6 miles or more.
And yes, they ARE slow speed devices, which would help if someone has back problems, not to mention the back support.
There ARE some "mobility scooters" that CAN easily achieve 10mph, which is the avg cruising speed of most bicycle riders. (I'm not talking about the lycra crowd)
The only reason to not want to ride a mobility scooter is because of the connotation of it.. Guess what... No one really cares. (only you as the rider would care).

You were correct that if you get into an accident, you can get into alot of trouble.
I'll tell you that if the O riginal P oster was riding a mobility scooter, she wouldnt have gotten into trouble in the first place.

Let's be honest for a moment.. The XB700 looks cool, it looks like a scooter/moped/small motorcycle.
The OP wants to "look cool", instead of like an "old lady" in a wheelchair.
If the OP has the lithium model it even states on the side "extreme scooters" THAT is probably what caught the officer's eye.
(I'm not sure if the non lithium model has that written on the side too)

We have a number of disabled people in my township that use mobility scooters and they only go at a walking pace. I looked up several on-line just now and they all had a max speed rating of 4.5 mph. That's probably on level ground with a good surface. There may be faster ones, but not in any of the hits I got.

In my case, sitting in a scooter chair would be painful. Unless I'm reclined quite a bit it is very uncomfortable for me to sit up. As I said, I find a bicycle more comfortable.

Also, in my area, getting aroundf on sidewalks is very problematic. Sidewalks are often in bad repair and often disappear. So you'd be forced to use the scooter on the shoulder, which oftens disappears at underpasses. You really cannot get around as a pedestrian where I live except within the towns.

I do nearly all of my transprotation by bicycle, pretty much 365 days a year. But I DO have a drivers license and still drive, so I see this from both sides.

Sangesf, you seem to think bicycles in general are not suited for using on the road. I assume you know that in NJ and nearly all other states a regular bicycle is allowed on all roads except limited access roads(and in NJ there are a few exceptions where bikes ARE allowed on limited access roads) and they must follow all the rules of the road. They are allowed to "take the lane" when the lane is too narrow to share, etc.

I have been a bicyclist most of my life and am now in my 50s. I can comfortably bicycle on most roads in NJ and have seldom had any problem with other road users.
It is great exercise and a pleasant and economical way to get around and can be safely and courteously done on most roads. I'm talking about roads in NJ near Philadelphia where I live.

I would like to continue riding a bike for transprotation as I have done most of my life. The assist system I have on my bike does not change the charactersitics of the bike, including maximum speed, over an unassisted bicycle. I see no reason these should not be treated as a bicycle.

The NJ electric bike law needs to be changed to bring it in line with the vast majority of states. I plan to start tlaking to state legislators about this later this year. I think most, when they see a bike such as mine, will quickly agree.