new tickets on my xb700

I agree with you on whaT you said except for what you think I think..

I know and believe that bicycles should use the road..
That's not the point.
I personally have an electric bike that I use 100% of the time for my transportation.
NOW, that is...
I live in Florda where it IS legal to use WITHOUT a DL...
Now I speak from experience, when I say, if you have a bike that does not conform to what a normal bicycle usually looks like, you WILL get more attention paid to you.
I get pulled over at least twice a month by local officers.
However, I am FULLY compliant with FL law statutes when it comes to my bicycle..
If I didn't spend the extra money ($300) to limit the speed id not be compliant.

I agree with you on whaT you said except for what you think I think..

I know and believe that bicycles should use the road..
That's not the point.
I personally have an electric bike that I use 100% of the time for my transportation.
NOW, that is...
I live in Florda where it IS legal to use WITHOUT a DL...
Now I speak from experience, when I say, if you have a bike that does not conform to what a normal bicycle usually looks like, you WILL get more attention paid to you.
I get pulled over at least twice a month by local officers.
However, I am FULLY compliant with FL law statutes when it comes to my bicycle..
If I didn't spend the extra money ($300) to limit the speed id not be compliant.

Hello Sangesf. - (I am NOT here to pick a fight with you !)- But, i also live in FL. I have the moped (electric bicycle) laws right in front of me. - it says: "Moped drivers need to have at least a Class E driver's license, and be 16 or older to drive a moped on a public road. A motorcycle endorsement isn't required." - And, the moped (electric bicycle) definition is as follows: "State legislators define a moped as a vehicle fitting all of the following criteria:
• Pedals that allow you to propel the vehicle
• A seat for the rider
• Three or fewer wheels
• Motor of two-brake horsepower or less
• Maximum speed of 30 mph on level ground
• Automatic power-drive system
• Displacement of 50 cc or less (for those with an internal combustion engine)"

An electric bicycle is NOT differentiated from a 'moped' in FL. -

Now. --- Please. - If you have a legal definition taken from the FL law that differentiates an
electric bicycle from a 'moped', PLEASE tell me what it is and where it is.

In addition: that 'device' has to be 'registered' (by law). - It must carry a 'plate' that shows
it has been registered.

Thank you. (seriously) - I'm not trying to be a smart xss.

It's the bicycle definition statute Title XXIII, Chapter 316.003 part (2)

As follows...

(2)  BICYCLE.—Every vehicle propelled solely by human power, and every motorized bicycle propelled by a combination of human power and an electric helper motor capable of propelling the vehicle at a speed of not more than 20 miles per hour on level ground upon which any person may ride, having two tandem wheels, and including any device generally recognized as a bicycle though equipped with two front or two rear wheels. The term does not include such a vehicle with a seat height of no more than 25 inches from the ground when the seat is adjusted to its highest position or a scooter or similar device. No person under the age of 16 may operate or ride upon a motorized bicycle.

The difference between the two legalities is the mph and/or gas.

Bicycle = regular or electric up to 20mph
Moped = gas or electric 20mph-30mph (WITH pedals and chain attached.)
Scooter = moped but NO pedals.
Motorcycle = any vehicle over 30mph. Pedals or no.

Sir sangesf ! - THANK YOU ! ! ! - I GREATLY appreciate your input here.
I won't go into the complexity of it, but you have been of tremendous
help to me. - I thank you. -

To me, one of the more important aspects of the law you presented to me
has to do with the seat height. - Specifically, the seat height from the
ground HAS to more than 25 inches. - (Quite important.) -

I.E., a BICYCLE ! - This relates to what you were mentioning before,
that such a bicycle 'look alike' draws much less attention than a
scooter type (size) (low seat) device. - Quite true, i believe.

No doubt, the speed limit is also a VERY important aspect. -
Recognized. -

I repeat. - Thank you. - I have learned something quite important.

What happens if you get stopped again? You would figure the cop would get tired of going to court?

It looks as if you and I have same state problems with the laws. MA and NJ used to be the same for insurance problems. I tried to license my scooter and when they drove it, it couldn't get out of its own way. Extreme scooters say it is a DOT vehicle but doesn't meet MA DOT specifications. I get stopped a fair amount but I am lucky there is a scooter toy store in this town with apparently some sort of clout. Usually the cruiser follows me for about 10 seconds to make sure I am off to the far right and going slow or too slow for traffic then speeds off and makes a u turn some place and disappears. I'll just do what you are doing get a court appointed lawyer and fight it if I get stopped and ticketed. I have full instruments to say it is 500 watts volts and ampere meters and charge amps like they care. It is winter out here in Taxachusetts and haven't been stopped yet even though there is snow on the ground. Go figure!!! When I used a Palmer mobility scooter the cops said I had to get a six sided orange thingy like what is on tractors and I did. Then they said get a 5 foot pole with a flag on it and I did. I come to a conclusion cops don't know too much about vehicle laws. The only time I am over 50 cc is when I get milk, 1000 cc? LOL you know one liter. one quart. Go Electrics!!!!
rg

Jerseygirl, you have to understand that I stated FLORIDA laws.
Has NOTHING to do with NJ laws... That's what you're not getting.

FORGET HR 727 has nothing to do with state's laws concerning vehicles on their own roads.
You SHOULD look into seeing if there is a local ordinance about bicycles or scooters or mopeds.

You said you went to court a first time, but didn't give specifics.. You only said that it went ok..

What was the first original ticket for and what paperwork did you bring to "win" the case.
THAT may be helpful too you.

If you give specifics about that, then we might be able to help.

However, with current NJ law, any electric powered bicycle is considered a moped.
Get your license renewed and half of your problems go away.

Sir sangesf ! - THANK YOU ! ! ! - I GREATLY appreciate your input here.
I won't go into the complexity of it, but you have been of tremendous
help to me. - I thank you. -

To me, one of the more important aspects of the law you presented to me
has to do with the seat height. - Specifically, the seat height from the
ground HAS to more than 25 inches. - (Quite important.) -

I.E., a BICYCLE ! - This relates to what you were mentioning before,
that such a bicycle 'look alike' draws much less attention than a
scooter type (size) (low seat) device. - Quite true, i believe.

No doubt, the speed limit is also a VERY important aspect. -
Recognized. -

I repeat. - Thank you. - I have learned something quite important.

Realize that COUNTY then LOCAL town laws CAN, and WILL supersede Florida state laws..
You will need to make sure you are compliant with every law available.
What County and Town do you live in?
Certain counties and certain towns have stricter rules, some have more lax rules.
The devil is in the details.

Sir sangesf. - Appreciate your County and Local heads up. - (That may
apply.) - I will check into that. I'm in Sarasota (city) in Sarasota
(County). - (Do not expect you to do my checking for me.) - I DID
try to look into the laws, but i missed what you referred to. -

"The devil is in the details." -

The manufacturers DO play games with these laws. - My seat is 25
inches (plus a tad) from the ground. So (i guess) it qualifies
as a bicycle even though it 'looks' very much like a motorized
scooter or moped. The speed is 20 mph, max.

I don't want to mess up the thread for jerseygirl. I apologize.

This site and its participants are really a treasure.

What kind of bicycle do you have that you're having problems with.

Actually I was asking the other poster..

For your part... Forget HR727 it won't hold up in court for not needing a DL.
You got lucky the first time.
Trust me on this, the DA WILL try to screw you. Any money they make you pay, is all profit for the state.
I HOPE your lucky again... In your case, I would make sure your lawyer shows the court the first case against you an use that as a reason that you were unaware that you needed a DL since your case was dismissed the first time.

good day

I've been watching this for some time

I can understand why some one would not want to use anything
other than a E-bike to get around

I use a GIO 500w Electric scooter even in winter way past
what they say for temp

I've only had 1 cop pull me over thinking it was a motor bike or moped

he had put his lights on and since no cars were near by I pulled over when I past his car

since I bike dose not make the sound the stinker things make
he should have grabbed a clue but apparently did not

the silly question was asked
and I said it was a bike

he sill wanted id so I gave him my medical card and he did the thing they do
came back to me with with no apology

but now since there are quite a few around in my city in Canada
no cop gives them a second thought

for me it's my way of getting around far cheaper than bus service
and far more convent even on the coldest days in winter

my suggestion is for "Jerseygirl" to back to the Judge and get a letter
and carry it with her at all times and anther thought would be
to get the cop to come to court and talk with the judge

just to put the point across

You have to understand that EVERY state has its own rules.
Every COUNTY has its own rules.
Every TOWN has its own rules.

You can NOT make a blanket statement about any law in any town, county, state, country.
That's the politics of it.
Trust me when I tell you, if the "state" has a way to make money off of you they will.

Unfortunately the prosecutor will "object" when and if you bring something from the DMV and will call it "heresay".
Your lawyer should tell you to get a few subpoenas for the DMV worker, his boss, the head of the DMV and the State's attorney, so you can validate their fidings..

Here is what happened JUST TODAY here in Florida when someone went to court after he got stopped for riding a gas powered bike, one town away from a town where a gas powered bike is considered a bicycle. (I know it's not quite the same, but it really is, I'm terms of how court usually goes.)

I showed him the paper from the DMV and the state's attorney objected to it saying "it's hearsay" and the judge agreed and refused to admit it. I argued how can it be hearsay, it's from an official DMV site, the address is on the top of the page if your honor would like to look at it for himself, he replied, " that's just someone's opinion from the DMV, I will be the one to determine what law applies here"[\quote]

Wouldn't the easiest thing be to get a copy of the court records, testimony, judges ruling, transcripts, etc., from your first hearing and take that along with you to this hearing. It would clearly state what the court said and you should be fine, no?

Wouldn't the easiest thing be to get a copy of the court records, testimony, judges ruling, transcripts, etc., from your first hearing and take that along with you to this hearing. It would clearly state what the court said and you should be fine, no?

Hey, I know instead of that...
Bring documents from last court date.

Unfortunately the prosecutor will "object" when and if you bring something from the DMV and will call it "heresay". Your lawyer should tell you to get a few subpoenas for the DMV worker, his boss, the head of the DMV and the State's attorney, so you can validate their fidings..

Here is what happened JUST TODAY here in Florida when someone went to court after he got stopped for riding a gas powered bike, one town away from a town where a gas powered bike is considered a bicycle. (I know it's not quite the same, but it really is, I'm terms of how court usually goes.)

I showed him the paper from the DMV and the state's attorney objected to it saying "it's hearsay" and the judge agreed and refused to admit it. I argued how can it be hearsay, it's from an official DMV site, the address is on the top of the page if your honor would like to look at it for himself, he replied, " that's just someone's opinion from the DMV, I will be the one to determine what law applies here"

Heresy is an often misunderstood term. It really refers to the witness expressing the opinions of a third person. (ie; Sally told me that she saw Bill in town that night) This may be allowed to establish what sally said, but not that she saw Bill or that Bill was in town. In the case of a conversation with the DMV, the state attorney would not object on the grounds of heresy, but credibility. (why the defendant didn't call the DMV official to give evidence). In the case of DMV documents, these can be tendered for the Judges consideration, it becomes the obligation of the state to call a DMV witness to refute the authenticity of the doc's.

The Judge is quite right, in matters of law, he is the arbiter, not a DMV official. However, if you can establish that you were misled by the DMV, then it would be difficult for the Prosecutor to argue mens rea, (intent).

Judges can interpret the law, but no judge can create legislation! A Judge can only strike down laws on constitutional grounds. (state or federal).

In jurisdictions between towns, the classification of the road is very important. All States and the Federal government have laws preventing towns imposing local restrictions, by-laws, or jurisdiction over some roads. (usually highways) .

Court records are kept. You should have no problem getting the transcripts.

Call the courthouse yourself and pay the small fee to get these printed and sent to you.

This should be an easy solution.

And, as another poster wrote, it may be easiest to just get your driver's license reinstated. What would that

cost? $40? It certainly would help to decrease the potential for other tickets and calm the chaos that appears

to be happening with this. Any fines you speak of would surely be offset by getting a DL, no? It would

probably look better to the judge if you had a DL, too.

Perhaps an electric golfcart would be better than this vehicle? You could take your son places and get to the

store when needed.