Running Costs

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Here what I don't get. It started losing power at about 122v and I was regularly flicking the kill switch to check out when the red light came on. This happened just near the bottom of my driveway (I did my best to avoid it by riding gently) and when it did, it showed 117v and 31deg and had very little power.

the bit I don't get is this:-

by the time I hopped off the scoot and plugged it in, it was at 122v. That would have taken all of 30 seconds! Does that sounds normal or problematic?

It's normal and it could be problematic.

Any cell which reverses briefly under load will bounce back up by about 1.5V within a few seconds. It will show 1.15V+ even when it is almost totally empty, seconds after reversing at -0.4V or thereabouts.

Cells which have not reversed will also increase their open voltage over time, compared to the open voltage just after a current drain. This increase per cell is much smaller, like from 1.22V to 1.25V, but because most cells have not reversed, the effect ads up.
0.03V x 90 cells = 2.7V increase of overall open voltage.

If your battery temperature didn't rapidly increase at the end of the ride, then you're pack should be ok.

Hi, did you a full charge? If the battery gauge showed full at +-148V and the temperature where at normal values,
the battery should be intact. If temp rose dramatically and/or the voltage rose to 152V when the gauge showed only
4/5 or less full, one or some cells are in trouble.

greetings Mike

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... I got 53km out of it, which was unusual...I usually get 45. ...
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Is that a typo or correct?

Sorry...I usually get 35km. HOWEVER, I think it had just done an eqalisation as it had taken 7.5 hours to finish the charge cycle. that might have helped maybe?

almost certainly that helped.

you won't normally get much more than 2/3 of the rated capacity out of a nimh traction battery (air cooled at least) without having done an equalisation in the last 6 hours or so.

its why I recommend using a timer on the Vectrix, or a low power disconnect.
That way you can control when the equalisation happens, so you can plan ahead and have it happen on a day when either you need the extra range, or its unusually cold.

Matt

Hello green enthusiasts,

Just reading the posts on the running costs of the Vectrix reminds me of a conversation which I tend to have on a fairly regular basis with people who show an interest in the Vectrix.

"Oh", they say, "must be very cheap to run". To which my reply is. NO, it is not cheap to run. If you consider that it takes some 4 units (kW hrs) to charge at a cost of 16p per unit that's 64P per charge. I am getting about 32 miles per charge which works out at 2p per mile, to which must be added the cost of a replacement battery at 50000miles (manufacturers figures and highly optimistic) and a cost of £4000-00p. Where I come from this is equal to a running cost of, 2p /mile 'fuel' PLUS 8p per mile for the replacement battery, total, without any other costings, equates to 10p per mile. This cost again, equates to a car capable of 60 miles per gallon. I haven't considered a replacement engine for the car as normally an engine can outlast the car's life.

Looking at the above fueling costs, I would say that we are hardly likely to 'save the planet'
by using the Vectrix as a means of transport. I do believe that improvements in efficiency will come and , of course, the costs of fossil fuels will rise. One day (soon I hope) electrically powered transport WILL take over and will provide savings and benefits, but it may be a day or two yet. In the mean time, we carry on pioneering electric transport at our own (personal) expense.

The Laird.

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"Oh", they say, "must be very cheap to run". To which my reply is. NO, it is not cheap to run. If you consider that it takes some 4 units (kW hrs) to charge at a cost of 16p per unit that's 64P per charge. I am getting about 32 miles per charge which works out at 2p per mile, to which must be added the cost of a replacement battery at 50000miles (manufacturers figures and highly optimistic) and a cost of £4000-00p. Where I come from this is equal to a running cost of, 2p /mile 'fuel' PLUS 8p per mile for the replacement battery, total, without any other costings, equates to 10p per mile. This cost again, equates to a car capable of 60 miles per gallon. I haven't considered a replacement engine for the car as normally an engine can outlast the car's life.

Looking at the above fueling costs, I would say that we are hardly likely to 'save the planet'
by using the Vectrix as a means of transport. I do believe that improvements in efficiency will come and , of course, the costs of fossil fuels will rise. One day (soon I hope) electrically powered transport WILL take over and will provide savings and benefits, but it may be a day or two yet. In the mean time, we carry on pioneering electric transport at our own (personal) expense.

The Laird.

Yes, the short term and direct Vectrix costs are nothing but disastrous, particularly when taking into account Australian conditions, shipping costs and the pollution pumped into the higher strata of our atmosphere by travelling repair techs...(not that they exist any more, but they did, and they did travel...)

But if you do not carry on like an abused third world country, but instead have the luck, resources and drive to add some value, then it's not so bad!

With what I have learned from the Vectrix and from the internet in general, and particularly from smart and generous individuals like The Laird, Fechter and Mike Dabrowsky, I have put several cars back on the road which would otherwise be wrecks. They are first (really first, as in Japan only) Prius models (NHW10). A better option is the NHW11. From then on it seems like it's been a downhill course for the Prius (Personal opinion, look up thousands of pages on the relevant forums to make up your own mind. More weight, power, complexity and features, but fuel efficiency not been significantly improved).

My credo has been - and still is - that to reduce the cost of transport you need to reduce the ratio between vehicle weight and payload. That's why I went ahead and bought a Vectrix. Driving 350kg to work and back is better than driving 2000kg the same distance each day! Once there is a half-way decent bike lane, I'll be into electric bikes. They might actually be better than purely human-powered bikes.

But it's near suicide to ride a bike where I live, and the early Prius models (and some turbo-diesels) achieve similar fuel efficiencies to a Vectrix. So that's why the Vectux is getting a bit bored and lonely lately!

And don't forget that the 80,000km battery life is a bad joke for the vast majority of Vectrix owners. 7500km is a much more accurate figure, but not if you take into account the usual convention of "a battery is stuffed when down to 80% capacity" measure. That happens way earlier with most Vectrix scooters, maybe around 4000-6000km.

Anyway, how much do you think it would have cost the Wright brothers to fly one km on average?

And how would that have compared to a horse drawn cart, or whatever else was available back then?

There you go, make of it what you can, and that's what's gonna save the planet - or at least, your own sanity - for a little while!

Heck. Bottom line is...I ENJOY riding my Vectrix back and forth to work. The fact that it doesn't use gas makes me happier about running short errands and going home for lunch, and getting called back in after hours.

My Vectrix has been anything BUT green, but it suits my multiple short distance runs every day better than a gas burner, and I honestly think I like it for what I bought it for much better than I would have liked a Burgman.

I have an awesome, chromed up and dressed out Harley Davidson Road King which gets 40mpg, but for 3 mile jaunts four to six times a day, it's not a fun way to get around at all. The "flip, twist and go" Vectrix just simplifies short hop transportation and makes it fun, not to mention it just plain makes better sense.

My short list was a Burgman 400 and a Vectrix. The Vectrix was 2 grand more than the Burgy, and when all is said and done, will likely end up being the more expensive to operate as well, but I like it, and I'll miss it when it's done, and that's all that matters.

Hi,

Long time reader, first time poster. I have had my V since Jan 2008 (Here in Melbourne from Vectrix Aus). Before I purchased it I sat down and did some sums of my current vehicle and what a V at the time was.

My main reason for getting the V was travel to and from work, and to/from the shops. Simple. At the time I was paying $8 a day for parking my car at/near work. I was paying $40(at a minimum) worth of fuel every 10 days.

$8 * 5 * 47 (to allow for 4 weeks holidays and public holidays) = $3008 (don't you just love parking for free on the footpath).
$40 * 36 (36*10=360 days) = $1080

So in total I was spending just in my day to day travel in my car. ~ $4000

At the Time, the V (plus motorbike pants/helmet/jacket/boots/gloves) came to ~$18,000.

Now even if worst case, the bike charging at off peak rates came to half what it cost to run the car, I would still be saving (actaully not spending) ~$3500/year. Take off rego and insurance for the V, would drop it back down to say $2900 a year(round up to 3000 for ease of the calculation).

This would mean that after 6 years of riding the bike, (allowing for flat tyres and break fluids at the same rate of a car, so no difference in running costs there from my car) I would have break even on the costs. And this is only at worst case for electric costs. It was nothing like that expensive.

So for me, I still have say another 18 months to go before its break even (4 1/2 years). Now I purchased this bike out right (so no loan/interest to take into account). So for me it was a valid net saving each year (and still is). And of course, being a bike, its much faster to ride to/from work, not stuck in traffic in my car. So saving in time, which is an increase in quality of life.

Now just so you know, that first year, yes I still used my car on occasion, for the longer trips and when I have to carry something the bike couldnt. So yes I still used some petrol. But it my car dropped from 36 fill ups per year, down to just 7 full tanks for the entire year. Another big saving.

While some might say, "Hey why didnt you go on Public transport, it would have been cheaper still". Yes, I costed that, but, I also timed it. and the travel time to/from work would have been an extra 45 Minutes longer than the car drive (and thats if there were never any problems with train schedules - lol) and I would still need to use the car for non-work travel.(shops'/local/etc).

However all that being said. Yes I have a degraded batteries. I used to be able to ride down to the beach, and back with out a problem. Now, I can just do about 35km on a charge which wont get me near the beach. It still does the round trip to work, followed by a trip to the shops, but thats about it.

So now I am considering doing the Li conversion. It will add a bit longer for the break even onto the bike for me, but I think... its worth it.

-Randy

Hi Rany, wellcome to the forum. How many Km/miles did yo put on the bike?
Greetings Mike

Hi Randy and welcome!

I made similar calculations, but without parking fees and plus the interest I would have saved if I kept the money.

Like I told Vectrix Australia: Financially it only makes sense when compared to the costs of running a car. Their advertising at the time, trying to entice ICE scooter riders to go electric due to financial reasons, was a nonsense. An ICE scooter beats the Vectrix cost-wise (unless we get much higher fuel prices).

As of Yesterday 19754km.

i never bought the Vectrix because of running costs, but i have to admit that after 2 years and 15.000kms , its costed me nothing to maintain, i just changes tyres once (including the front one when it wasnt totally necessary) and the anual checkup that costed 50€!!
its a plus to the enjoyment of driving electric!

RaDy

i never bought the Vectrix because of running costs, but i have to admit that after 2 years and 15.000kms , its costed nothing to maintain, i just changed tyres once (including the front one when it wasnt totally necessary) and the anual checkup that costed 50€!!
its a plus to the enjoyment of driving electric!

RaDy