For what it is worth, I thought I would post an update on my bike. 2008 VX1, purchased from dealer in December 2008 new build in September 2008.
The best range I ever got was 32 early on but typically around 28-30. Admittedly, I live in a very hilly part of the US. My daily commute is 33 miles and therefore i always charged at work. After my first summer in 2009, riding the bike about 150 miles per week, the battery started getting hot and staying hot all the time. Long and short of it, at about 5000 miles the battery deteriorated. The software showed only 17ah capacity for the battery and my range was down to 20 miles. In March 2010 I filed a complaint with Vectrix and 6months later in September 2010 I received a new battery along with the latest software update. By now I have put about 1000miles on the new pack. Thus far (knock on wood) things are good. Average range is about 36-38miles and I no longer charge at work. I drive both ways every day arriving with about 2 or 3 bars left. Battery does heat up by 5-8 degrees during the ride but no extra heat generated at the end. Once a week I drive to the red light. It comes on reliably at 123V pack voltage. At that point I have about 3-4 miles range left and can still accelerate well and go over 50mph.
My overall impression is that the new software tapers the power draw once the battery is less than 50% may be by 20% or so. The range estimator and the 17 bar battery display are much more accurate now. In fact, the red light comes reliably at the end of the last bar showing. The range estimator also does a better job and does take the"reserve" into account. Admittedly, mine is a best case scenario starting with the new software along with anew battery.
Full EQ charge leaves the pack at 149V, a regular charge is 146V,which dropps to 143-144 by the next day. midway through the ride, at about 16 miles it reads 135V, at 25 miles it's at about 131V, 123v is red light and 118V is empty.
I am a bit puzzled that the Ah in the software shows 25Ah as capacity. At the time on install, the memory controller was not cleared and I have not forced a 30ah through software and have not forced it to run a new capacity check. It has been at 25Ah since it was installed. I assumed that it will gradually adjust to the actual battery capacity, which may indeed be 25Ah rather than 30. However, given the range I get I doubt it . I am not doing any deep discharges to a crawl as I did with the original battery. I simply take it to the red light and recharge. I also don't do opportunity charges. I go 33 miles which has the bike about 90% empty and then charge. This way the battery doesn't get lazy.
May be this helps someone reading. I do have a second bike, 2007 on which the battery is original and includes 20 swapped cells. I did a lot of measuring and experimenting with it, It too runs the new software. It gets about 33miles up from 14 miles before i swapped the cells but once the red light comes on it goes straight into the 25 mph crawl and I have may be a mile left. So clearly, I still have a few weak cells in the pack that are dropping the voltage quickly. On it, the red light comes on with 3 bar showing.
experience with new battery and software
Sun, 02/27/2011 - 05:51
#1
experience with new battery and software
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Support V is for Voltage
Very interesting post. thanks.
The bit I'm quoting above is the part that puzzles me about mine. I've mentioned it before but as far as I know, there was no response.
Mine doesn't charge to the 149V which I was sure it used to....and a regular charge leaves it at about 141v usually. The rest of your description pretty much matches the performance of my V.
What would stop mine from apparently getting a full charge? During the charge the temp only goes up 2-3 degress MAX from ambient and in fact if it's after a ride, the starting temp will actually drop during charge.
What gives?
May be a bit more details on my charging scenario. From an empty battery, red light but not discharged to a crawl, the CP charge last 2h40m. Temperature goes up about 3-4 degrees. After the 15min colldown the CC charge goes 60 min. Temperature goes up another 4-5 degrees at least during CC. Total power drawn 5.1kw.
Pretty reproducible.
The spanish dealer told me in 2008 that every vectrix gets used to the daily routine of the driver. If you usually drive 15 miles and recharge, there's no need to bring the battery to full voltage. Remember Harry's routine: he does a 90% discharge to prevent the battery from becoming "lazy" (a short trip routine).
If the Firmware is the cause, good for you: less voltage means less heat, less stress, the battery may last longer.
The Firmware does other interesting things: have you seen a small light sensor in the dashboard? I was told that during daylight conditions it decreases the brightness of the front light to save energy. When the light sensor detects darkness, it lits up the front light back to full power.
Harry, I'm afraid deep discharges are not the best daily routine for a battery (anybody agrees?). Why don't you charge at work?
In this case, the guage is still set with capacity at 25Ah, thus it only shows 83% of the batteries actual capacity.
given that there are 3 bars left at the end of the commute, only 68% of the battery has been used.
I wouldn't actually call that a deep discharge.
With actual deep cycling (using 80-90% of the batteries actual capacity), if you do it once a day or more often continuously, there is no harm, as the lowest cells won't have enough time to self discharge more than the others to become a problem.
The only issue is if that cycle has been broken by more than a day (or it has been more than a day since the last full equalisation) that the worst cells have had enough time to discharge more than the rest.
This is with a good battery with no bad cells (which a brand new pack will be).
a pack with reduced capacity cells, cells with accelerated self discharge, etc, the limits have to be more conservative.
Matt
Daily Ride:
2007 Vectrix, modified with 42 x Thundersky 60Ah in July 2010. Done 194'000km
I would add that the above is true for ambient temps around 25 deg C.
temps above that I would reduce max discharge capacity by 10-20% (30 - 40 deg C), and reduce the amount of time allowable between deep cycles or equlalisations by 6-12 hours (30 - 40 deg C).
Matt
Daily Ride:
2007 Vectrix, modified with 42 x Thundersky 60Ah in July 2010. Done 194'000km
All excellent comments. My reasoning for using almost all of the range each day is to reduce the number of CC charges necessary. If I drive 16 miles, and recharge, the battery will go through the CC charge to top off although it is half full. Same on the other end of my trip. So I will be charging 2 Time each day. The CC charge is the one that heats the battery and I believe is the worst for it. Of course, I'd I carried around a timer I could charge from let's say 30% to 80% at each end, thereby avoiding the CC charge. But that gets pretty involved. Also, sooner or later the electronics will not remember what is full and what is empty.
The question remains whether 1000 full discharges are better or worse than 2000 half discharges, should I be so lucky to have the battery last that long.
Only does the dashboard lights on mine....and in quite an annoying way. they're flashing dull and bright depending on how often I ride under a street light!!
Cover the sensor with tape.
The best case scenario is to be between 40%-80% SOC.
I use a timer when home charging, set to charging to end and 13-14 bars full. My drive to work is 11.5km one way, that's 23km both ways, which is aprox. 5 bars consumed, so I mostly move between 13 and 8 bars.
My SOC gauge does get, in time, out of sync, but I watch the end discharge voltage and end charge voltage to be at aprox. 128V and 144V. When my calculated time for EQ comes, I let it do the EQ charge to get the battery SOC bars and real battery bar back to sync at 100% SOC.
lol...you didn't really think that through! Then the dials are dull during the day!....and even along well lit roads at night.
I don't know what you mean by 'dull', but if you cover the sensor with the tape, it will think it's night and the dashboard should always be brightly lit.
Sure?
I think:
Dashboard at night = less light (try it)
Front light at night = more light.
Stop theorizing and try it out - it does not work!
The space between the plastic cover and the ambient light sensor is so wide that that it continues to receive light even if you try to cover it.
This information may be used entirely at your own risk.
There is always a way if there is no other way!
no..it's quite the opposite from what I've seen.
Thanks Harry, this is very informative. Could you also characterize your commute in terms of speed and number of stoplights/stops/starts?
Doron
Wow, I have been complaining to Dana for 6 months, and longer on this board about my crazy battery that on days when it's 45 degrees F I still get the bathot and regular drops from 4,5, 6, or 7 bars to zero, stranding me various places. Dana specifically said after I sent him photos of the loss that I probably had a bad pack, but he kind of trailed off and I haven't heard from him in months... Soon my warranty will be all gone, if we have a warranty after the bankruptcy, would love to know the steps you went thru to get your pack fixed. We sound like we have the same issue, only you got yours fixed.
-Randy
______________________
I also own a 2018 Tesla Model 3 and a 2012 Mitsubishi iMiev
My commute has 12 stop lights and I typically hit 6 at red. Average speed for the whol trip is 35-37mph, I.e. The actual speeds vary between 30 and 55 mph.
As to what I did to get service. I emailed Dana late in 2009 and received an immediate reply. At the time, batteries were still on order from China with an expected delivery by March. I waited patiently emailing from time to time. Dana did update me each time I called. I was supposed to receive an install by June. That turned into September but ultimately I had a pickup truck in my driveway with a new Vectrix battery. Unfortunately, a hiccup in the final programming took down the boot loader on the MCB leaving the bike useless until Matt came back a month latest and programmed. All is good since. However, it is too early to tell how long it will hold up. I do get better range than I ever had which makes me believe that the old battery was damaged from the beginning. So all in all, from first complaint to final fix it was about 14 months.