Interested in purchasing an Xtreme XB-700!!!

As a happy XB600 owner, I remain skeptical about Lithium without BMS. As a Four year e-rider in general, I remain skeptical about series charging in general.

You'll be putting a lot of money into that set of batteries. It would be a pity if the pack got out of balance and had to be replaced far before its claimed 1000 cycles.

Mark

I rode the 700li for a year and a half before upgrading to the 4000li. Incidentally I live in Phx AZ, and plan to sell my 700li. But it is a 2009 and has the LiMN cells.

Here is my review of the 700li after about 3500 miles. It was a very lightweight, fun, simple to ride scooter that impersonated an electric bicycle while being nothing like one. It had all of the lights, bells and whistles of a scooter, but the pedals allowed me to avoid license, registration, and insurance. The police are very confused. Try to avoid them. In the 18 months I had mine, I had to replace the tires/tubes, the throttle, seat, seat brackets, horn/alarm, fuses, and three or four plastic trim pieces. That is pretty ridiculous for only 18 months of use. When I first bought the 700 li, the range was incredible. It seemed could easily go 30+ miles without batting an eye. 18 months later, my max range was under 20 and maybe even under 18, but the battery warranty runs out at 12 months. Bummer.

The 4000li is a completely different animal. I purchased the 700li for the standard $1600, and the 4000li as a showroom display for $1900. The differences between the two are stunning. Aside from the top speed of 19mph versus 50+ mph, the 4000li doesn't rattle or shake like the 700li will and it is smooth like a knife cutting butter. I did have to license, register, and insure it, but the costs are minimal.

Good Luck!!

You scored a 4000li for under $2K? That is a nice deal. The prices I've seen on that are around 4K and up.
But it was a floor model so luck was on your side. Hah!

I've thought of upgrading from my XB-600 to the lithium 700 series, however I will have less ability to mod my bike.
It's like a classic car versus a new computer controlled vehicle. I admit, the XB-600 is like a mechanic's car. It needs constant upkeep.
But that can be said for a lot of vehicles - even the newer ones. A lot depends on the usage. I'm lucky that I don't depend on my bike for an every day commute.

I'd look at the possible usage (for any series vehicle) and what the expectations might be.
Also, where you live might be a factor. Many of these electric bikes are not happy with hills, wet weather, et.

Welcome to the forum! We have been using the 700li since August 2008. We have the first generation 700li. We have over 3000 miles on the bicycle odometer we installed. The bike speedometer is not accurate at all. The bikes helped us become a one car family. We use the scooter for all our short errands. The car is only used for our out of town travels and long trips. The bike is saving us about $5000 per year in car related expenses. The bike only goes 22 MPH miles per hour but that is fast enough to takes from point A to point B and slow enough no to get us in trouble. My wife and I ride comfortably in it all the time.
The only thing we did not like about the bike is the tires. They tend to get flat very easy. We fixed that by using slime tire sealant for a while and when we got a chance, we replaced both tires with a much higher quality ones. You can get them here:

http://www.bikebandit.com/cheng-shin-c131-scooter-moped-tire

These tires are very cost effective and strong. No more flats so far.

We liked the bike so much that became a dealer in our area. The original battery is still taking a charge. We were not expecting the battery to last this long. We will be upgrading the battery to a LiPo4 very soon.

Let us know if you have any more questions.

Well you mention that the "original battery is still taking a charge". At only 3000 miles and $600 to replace them...they had better be still taking a charge!!! But the real question is what is your range now? After 3500 miles and 18 months, my range was down to half what it was initially. And if at 3500 miles I have to drop $600 dollars for a new battery pack (or $700 for Lipo with new charger) then the 700li becomes a very bad investment really quickly. I am not sure how you came up with $5000 savings in auto expenses, when only driving 3000 miles. I haven't seen a car yet that costs almost $2 a mile to drive, unless you replaced your lamborghini with a 700li. Then it might work :0

The 4000li has a two year batter warranty, as opposed to the one year for the 700li. Plus the batteries are LiPo, not LiMn. I certainly am hoping to get more than 18 months and 3500 miles out of these batteries!!! Or again, the ROI becomes pretty dismal. But at least xtreme will have to buy a new battery pack for me if after 18 months my range is down to half.

Hi, Yes we have heard of some other first generation 700Li owners have seen their range go down. We are sure our range is not as good as it used to be. The longest we ride both ways is 15 miles and we are still getting that range off the battery. One of these days we will test the total range. We usually ride the bike and charge it every day. We once forgot to charge it for a week and we had to push the bike for a few blocks. When we replace the battery, we will replace it with a LiPo4. We just need to replace the charger and batteries. We will get the battery from another manufacturer with a higher capacity.

We used to have a $300 per month car payment, we always had it that way. With $50 full coverage insurance per month. About $100.00 average cost per month for gas and maintenance costs. We did not use this car that much, only for in town errands. After we got the Bike, we sold the car. No more car payments, no full coverage insurance, no gas, no nothing second car related. For people that are do not have car payments the savings are not as great but still gas the way it is going, it will never go back to under $3.00 in California.

That is the reason we are saving about 5000 per year in car related expenses. It is amazing much money we put on our cars sometimes.

Getting a 700Li was a no brainier for us. We still have a regular hybrid car that we use for longer trips or when the weather is not nice. The car is paid off and we do not pay for full coverage insurance.

We like the larger electric bikes but we do not feel safe at higher speeds. We will get an electric car or convert our hybrid to a plug in hybrid to use electricity only. We been producing our own electricity with photovoltaic panels for about six years. We want to be 100% energy independent. Electric vehicles give you that option.

Two quick thoughts.

1) You live in California, so yes for that small segment of the population, the 700li might be a feasible alternative to a second car. Phoenix presents that opportunity as well since it rarely rains and we don't have much of a winter. But even here I won't ride the 700li in Dec Jan Feb. And we are between 40 and 60 degrees!! I cannot even imagine the rest of the states during those months, so forget about riding from Sept to May for most of the U.S.

2) I was really drawn to the advertisement that said 7-10 year battery life. Weren't you? Do you still tell people they have a 7-10 year life???? The first year I could go 35 miles. By the seventh year I can do what...go around the block once?

Well, I assume this is a bit of hyperbole (though it was pretty funny).

First off, the small segment that is called, California is the most populous and third-largest state by land area in the country (only behind Texas and Alaska).

Second, I'm sure the 700li can go more than just around the block after several years of use. Once again, that depends on the usage.

As with any vehicle it's not a one-size-fits-all situation. For myself (who works at home and lives in North California in a flat area) my bike has been great. I admit, I'm not wearing it into the ground every day in a commute, and I do feel for those who need it for that. But it is a good vehicle (and for my money has made a huge difference since I gave up my car). It's great for small runs without having to pay extra insurance, gas, registration, license, upkeep and maintenance. I imagine it would be tough to make use of it as a true secondary vehicle. But no matter what the situation there is no free meal. Be it gas or electric someone is paying for something for a certain period of time before what they are using is obsolete. I mean, if someone is still using technology that's 7 to 10 years old they are maintaining it beyond the norm. Technology moves on (often a vehicle is obsolete when it is rolled off the showroom floor).

I'm not out to break down comments by others, I know what PzlPete was trying to say (I'm not dense and I can read between the lines), still I just wanted to add my two-cents for a sense of balance. Haha!

EDIT:
Don't get me wrong. I'd love stuff to last like it used to... when it was built to last for 20 years and with the ability to self-maintain it. But in today's era of computers, plastic & fiberglass bodies and cheap Chinese bolts & nuts that strip out when you use them ONCE.... well, I'm not expecting much nowadays after 7 years. But I do what I can. Good luck to everyone out there.

Well I would hardly consider driving something daily as "wearing it into the ground". After I paid 1700 for the 700li, I certainly expected it to be of a little higher quality. A very good gas scooter can be purchased for around 1000. But I felt that the cost was offset by Lithium batteries which were advertised to last between 7 and 10 years.

If they did, the $1700 price tag would be worth it. If I have to replace the batteries every two years at a cost of $600+, then suddenly it is not worth it to me. That same $600 would have paid for a lot of gas in a much less expensive scooter with higher quality components.

But if anyone has evidence that the LiPo batteries really will last 7-10 years, then please share.

PzlPet, you bring up some valid points. As I said I wasn't looking to debate anyone, just playing Devil's Advocate.
I'm still riding on SLA batteries so replacing mine isn't as bad (just over $200), however SLA types are pretty damn heavy and have other cons.
I just added a fifth battery to boost my top speed.

I just got mine from amazon. $1,600 no tax, free shipping. It has the older ? LiPO4 20Ah pack. It works great, if 27 Mph top speed is acceptable. I took my girlfriend out on it (combined weight 350lbs) and was able to get up to 23 mph, the handling at low speed was iffy but need to get used to it. With the LiPO4 pack I can get a spare from Ping and use the same charger. I got the the last scooter available direct from Amazon, all the ones there now are from associate vendors asking $1,800.00+. I was told by Batteryspace.com that the less number of cells in a pack is better, assuming total Ah and Voltage equal, easier to balance, and each cell has a more robust construction. After a year, when I get my drivers license back, I will probably sell it, and get a BMW motorcycle.