Wiring help or other troubleshooting

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Colleen
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Wiring help or other troubleshooting

We need help with some wiring on an EMax Sport. The download library (http://visforvoltage.org/topics/schematic) doesn't work. We are in the process of installing new batteries, and we have everything mounted and all the batteries hooked up, but when we try to drive it, nothing happens. The lights, key, horn, battery level indicator, and even the charger work like they should, but it doesn't drive.
However, when we removed the old batteries, there were three (maybe four) wires that we're not sure we got right. They are thin (12-14 gauge?) black, green, yellow, and red wires that we THINK may have been attached to what in our diagram is labeled terminal 8 (we know AT LEAST one thin wire was hooked up to that terminal). This is where two thick (8-10 gauge?) black wires connect (one comes up from below the battery box, and the other connects to another battery (terminal 9 in our diagram).
Does anyone have a wiring diagram for these vehicles or can just tell me how those wires are supposed to be connected?
If they're all supposed to connect to terminal 8, then I have another problem, and our question becomes this: what else would make it so that revving the throttle fails to make the bike move? For example, we know there is a problem when you have a sticky brake or faulty brake sensor (or kick stand), it disables the accelerator. What else might disable the accelerator, particularly something that I might have messed with while doing this battery change?
Thanks,
Mike and Colleen




PJD
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Re: Wiring help or other troubleshooting

Mike and Coleen,

I have wiring diagrams that will help you. PM me with an e-mail address and I will send them to you.

I believe a green wire, and a (thin) black wire, are supposed to be attached to the negative terminal of the battery pack. The other end of the green wire should go to the terminal on the white "black box" labeled "0v". The "black box" (which you are calling the "controller" - the actual controller is the big box on the left side of the bike), should have terminal labels like A+, Ax, B+, Bx, AB, 0v etc.

There are a number of recommended battery pack changes from the stock arrangement - changing the parallel-strings of four batteries to a pairs-in-series arrangement, and eliminating the "black box" which was the cause of many problems.

For the scooter to run, both of the relays under the right side of the floorboard must be closed (listen for the click when you turn the switch or raise the kickstand), and the red "logic power wire" to the controller (the real controller) must be energized with +48 volts. Check with a voltmeter. A stuck brake lever switch will also stop the scooter - this is easy to diagnose as the brake tail-light will be stuck on as well.

And, when charging, did you verify both sub-packs got charged with a voltmeter? The black box would often fail and charge only one of the sub-packs. Plug the charger into the socket on one side until charged, than plug it into the other side. The charger should not run for long on the other side.

Cheers,

Paul

Colleen
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Re: Wiring help or other troubleshooting

Thanks for the info Paul. Currently, both relays are working. There are 48 volts coming out of the relays, actually 50 volts. Is there a way to test the controller to find out if it is good or bad?
Thanks again.
Colleen and Mike.

Colleen
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Re: Wiring help or other troubleshooting

Oh, also, the charger only seems to work when plugged in to one side.
On another note, is there a way to disable the brake sensor? I just want to make sure that's not the problem.
Thanks.
Colleen and Mike

PJD
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Re: Wiring help or other troubleshooting

The "brake sensor" is simply the 12 volts from the brake light circuit. +12 volts disables power to the motor. So, if the brake light works properly (not stuck on) the controller stoppage not likely to be due due to a brake signal.

Remove the black panel on the left side of the scooter to access the controller connections. The brake signal (and the "turbo" button signal) is in 2-wire connector to the controller.

As far as charging on one side - a bit of background is needed. The e-max was designed to be charged with one charger for a standard charge, or two chargers for a quick charge. They decided to do this in an unnecessarily complex way. Each charge receptacle is wired to one of the two 4-battery sub-packs - plus the positive side or each receptacle is connected to the A+ (one sub-pack) and B+ (other sub pack) terminals on the black box. The third prong in the receptacle provides a signal from the chargers to the Ax and Bx terminals respectively. If only one of these terminals are signaled, the black box closes the connection between A+ and B+ (actually, I think it is normally closed) and one charger can charge both sub-packs. If both Ax and Bx are signaled, A+ and B+ are opened, and each charger charges each sub-pack separately.

This whole setup is unnecessary. If faster charger is desired, two chargers work fine charging the whole pack together in parallel. But worse, imbalance between the sub-packs, which can be caused by sticking relay while riding causes a rush of current through the A+ and B+ circuit and burns up their little relay. If this happens, you must plug the left side until it is charged, then plug the right side until it is charged.

So, most e-max owners have learned that the best solution is to re-arrange the pack into parallel pairs ("buddy pairs") and do away with this whole function of the black box. Eventually we learned to simply do away with the black box altogether - run the keyswitch circuit directly through the relays and controller logic power and do away with the side stand switch. The only thing that is needed to put a 50 ohm resistor, and an NTC type inrush suppressor (I used a thermometrics CL-40) in line with the key switch circuit, to supress inrush current into the DC-DC converter and controller which reduced key switch life.

The above background is important to understand, but your charging problem lies elsewhere. A connection is missing between one of the receptacles and its respective sub pack.

And, you still need to find out why there is no power to the controller and/or motor. What information did you get from the previous owner?

I have e-copies of the the repair and troubleshooting manual. All you need is a multimeter and an ability to interpret the not-quite correct English words the author uses. The file size is too large to e-mail. Are you familiar with Bit-Torrent? I can send you a .torrent file.

The main items to check next are that there is power to the controller - both the main power from the relays and the controller logic power wires, and then check that there is +5 volts to the throttle and the is a 0-4.5 volt throttle signal.

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