Hello Folks,
In an attempt to consolidate the information into one simple script, I offer you the following text describing:-
What the Latest 'Modified' Software Does
The software was modified in an attempt to reduce the damage caused by Vectrix's attepts to charge the NiMH battery in a very short time scale. The sole reason for the 'short charge time' was marketing. The idea being that if the bike could be charged very quickly then it would have greater appeal to the riding public.
Unfortunately Vectrix got it wrong. They charged the battery at such a rate that it heated up. They 'cured' this heating by having a 'cool off' period i.e. the tr period for an hour. Someone didn't have the sense to realise that by using a lower rate of charge there would be no heating and therefore no need for a 'cool off' period.
The damage was compounded by taking the battery voltage far too high in the initial stage of chargeing. C/P. 152 takes the battery into the overcharge state where heating is a serious problem. Again, Vectrix used a cool off period in a vain attempt to 'solve' the problem.
My engineering education taught me that preventing a problem from developing is always better than trying to 'fix' the problem that has developed.
What the modified software does is to charge the battery at a rate which does not generate heat.
In the first stage of charging I have used 6amps for the initial 'fast charge' (C.P.) period. This is maintained until the battery reaches about 70%/80% capacity which occurs at about 142/144volts. The tr stage is now used just to 'check' that 142/144volts has been attained.
The second stage of charging (C.C.) takes place at 2.0 amperes and lasts for up to four hours. This adds up to another 8 Ahr and brings the voltage up to 146/148 volts and the charge up to about 90%/95% capacity.
The final stage (E.C.) is a 'finishing top up' of 1 hour at 1.5 amps.
Total charge time: to 70%/80% = 4hrs maximum.
to 90% = 8hrs maximum
to 95%/100% =9Hrs maximum
Plus an occasional Equalising charge of one hour.
All of this with NO battery Heating and NO heat damage.
Summary:-
C.P 143 = 4 Hours (max)
t.r. 143 = 10 minutes.
C.C. 147 = 4 Hours (max)
E.C. 148 = 1 hour.
E.Q. 149 = 1 hour.
In addition to the above, the modified software causes the plenum fans to run all of the time that the battery is in use, whether charging or riding. This helps to maintain even cell temperatures throughout the battery and helps to keep battery temperature steady. The intention here is to prevent any cell becoming hotter than the others and should reduce the imbalance problems which have been caused by the hotter cells having greater internal leakage (because of the higher temperature of that cell) than the cooler cells.
The fans also run on for ten minutes after the bike is switched off. Again this is to remove any residual heat which will tend to escape from the innards of the battery in the time following use.
I have attempted also to persuade the 'fuel gauge' and 'estimated miles' readout to be a little more 'honest'. I know that seeing 126 miles to go on the 'est miles' display is ever so exciting, but no-one I know ever got that sort of mileage. Hopefully, it will now be a little more truthful. My main aim being that you should always 'run out' of fuel and 'est miles' before the bike actually stops, NOT as Vectrix had it, that the bike always 'stopped' with the 'fuel gauge' insisting that there was fuel remaining and that you still had 5 miles to go. I suppose if you were willing and strong enough, you could still get another five miles, but it would be by pushing the bike yourself and not by anything to do with electric power.
So for those who want to know, there it is. What the modified software does in a few short paragraphs. There may yet be some changes/updates and I intend to run a separate post detailing these as and when they become available. Suggestions will be considered.
Have fun folks.
The Laird
Telling it like it is, as always.
I have a fair idea of how far I can ride by checking what voltage the battery has by turning off the kill switch and pulling the left lever. Can you remind me....does your software update still do that?
I'm wondering if we could go one better,
The charger drives the est km remaining counter
I wonder if instead of showing a range estimation, the firmware could be modified to show current battery voltage
Sandy - does that look doable? or would the changes be too complex?
Are you still modifying the code in assembly?
Thanks for your work modifying the code, I hope I'm not being too pushy asking for more :)
Matt
Daily Ride:
2007 Vectrix, modified with 42 x Thundersky 60Ah in July 2010. Done 194'000km
for me, that little trick would be as good as it gets. voltage is my fuel gauge. I ignore everything else.
I have installed The Lairds software in the last couple of days and would like to make a couple of points/observations:
The installation was done in 5 minutes or less. I previosuly had a fully charged pack and took a quite spirited ride down to the red light or when I noticed a lack of power. The first thing that I noticed is that this version of MC software gives the bike SIGNIFICANTLY more power - the use of this extra power can of course give rise to battery heating but it is somewhat offset by the fact that the fans are running continuously. When you are riding this is not noticable. You don't even hear the fans when you are stopped at the lights.
The ambient was about 20 and by the time I had finished riding the battery temp was 24.
I started the charge at 6 amps - and noticed the temperature started to go down. OK it took a bit longer to charge than the previous software but even after equalisation and all the other stages the battery temperature was down to 20. The charge stopped 1 bar below full - I may have some slight battery damage which I think with time will improve. Time will tell.
Of course the winter time is not the worst time for these batteries even with the current Vectrix software. During the summer periods is when the advantages of this software will really come into its own. It might be nice for some of the folk down in the southern hemisphere to try this out now in the heat and see how things hold up.
What I liked also is that the displays are always on during the charge time - everytime I looked you could see what was going on. No horror story of turning on the key and finding your batteries are at 35 degrees or more!
I am in the South of France and if anyone wants to change I have a Can bus adapter and can help.
A big thanks to the Laird for this!
It really makes you wonder why Victrix did not do this in the first place when these problems started to occur... other agendas I guess...
Jonathan
Hello All,
Aircon. - No, it doesn't. The 'left brake/kill switch' readout is controlled by the MCR1017 motor controller and isn't available with the 1014b motor controller which the new charger software is paired with.
However, with a slight modification AND the 'loss' of the fuel gauge/est miles readout, it could be made to work alongside the MCR1017 motor controller.
Antiscab. - The firmware /software giving a voltage readout in the display instead of the est miles, is a distinct possibility. I have been considering this as a next step forward. It seems to me that the fuel gauge already gives a clue as to the miles to go (it is all we used to have in motor cars and other vehicles anyway). It may well be after Christmas before any progress is made there, but it is under active investigation.
Jonathanm. - Thank you for the informative post, I hope that it encourages others to consider the use of this software as it really is the only hope for those NiMH batteries out there currently being 'vandalised' by the Vectrix charger programmes.
My thanks to all of you who have requested copies of the modified software and information, my only wish is to extend the otherwise short life expectancy of the original NiMH powered Vectrix scooters. If anyone wants to know the cost of the modified software, It is free of charge. I will even send XVectrix a copy with my compliments, he might learn something to his advantage.
PLEASE remember, of course, that you must take total responsibility for the results of using and installing this software AND I am supplying it on the assumption that you agree to this condition.
Software changes/improvements are on-going, but as the bulk of the required changes are incorporated already, they should be few and far between.
It might be useful for someone to start a new thread/topic on this forum for the purpose of recording the successes? / failures? and other information and results obtained due to the use of the modified software. Just a thought.
Best wishes to you all,
The Laird.
(Telling it like it is as always).
The Laird,
I would like to thank you for all the work and engineering you did to produce this software. I will look forward to trying it out on my Vectrix.
I have one feature I would like to request in a future version. The ability to increase the charge rate back to 11 amps by pulling a brake lever or some other way of engaging it. The reason is that many times with a failing battery pack, My Wife and I have been stranded with a dead battery. The charging feature you have designed is wonderful, but need a way to override it to charge at a higher rate for dead battery emergencies. With the new software it would take too long to charge back up. Also most good Samaritans that would allow us to use their power would not let us stay there for that period of time.
Keep up the good work,
Louie
How funny. I was just thinking the same thing. I find that charging for an hour is usually enough for me to go for a couple of days,(I rarely do a full charge these days) but when I need a charge away from home, i really need it at the rate it charges now, but obviously for most of the time a slower charge would be fine. I'm just not sure getting rid of the fast charge would make me a happy camper long term......some sort of switch would be an amazing inclusion.
Hey Laird. back from hols and catching up on reading stuff on the forum. One thing that springs to mind with the comments above. JohnathanM the extra power is best kept in reserve for when its needed. I've been using this MC/charger version since i owned the bike and changed (up?) to the 1017mc version only to find the converse, a significant lack of power. I very quickly went back to the 'older' firmware. Obviously from use of this version i've found if i keep my throttle usage down my temps stay lower and i get longer range. A couple of squirts of full throttle (especially up hill) and i can see my overall range drop quite significantly. However in overall usage i would say this version with the significantly higher available torque is far far more usable for anyone who been used to riding motorbikes rather than, say, 50cc mopeds.
Laird, remember the earlier version of your software we were testing whereby fans on/off was determined by cycling the power twice ? whether this was a programming glitch or a feature. Would the same system of operation be able to switch charging rates from 6 amp to 10 amp ? obviously it does defeat the purpose of your charging system so I could understand any reticence in doing this but i can also see other peoples reasons for wanting it available as an option.
Bike is still all good several months down the line from installing this software.
Cheers all.
Chris
I could imagine that it is quite a job to have switchable amp rates in the charging software. For these occasions when you need to do this would it not be quite simple to have a very small note book or I Pad or similar with the diagnostic software on it? Carry your can bus under the seat and in less than 2 minutes you are back to the "later" higher amperage charging software. Then when you are back at home go back to the Lairds versions. Probably not what you want to hear but it is a solution to those not everyday occasions when you need the extra power...
FWIW
Jonathan
I could imagine that it is quite a job to have switchable amp rates in the charging software. For these occasions when you need to do this would it not be quite simple to have a very small note book or I Pad or similar with the diagnostic software on it? Carry your can bus under the seat and in less than 2 minutes you are back to the "later" higher amperage charging software. Then when you are back at home go back to the Lairds versions. Probably not what you want to hear but it is a solution to those not everyday occasions when you need the extra power...
FWIW
Jonathan
I got my CanBUS Adaptor/cable - I'm ready to update my charger software, but my goal is to change the amount of charging (50AH), rather than reduce the current. The Li-ion batteries haven't had much temperature increase (just a degree or two) while charging to 30AH - it will be interesting to see what happens when they are charged to full capacity.
The Laird has generously offered to help with this modification and antiscab will be testing it soon - I am very grateful for all of the help with my conversion!
Huge round of applause to the Laird, antiscab & able assistants for this intriguing topic. Quick Q: my 09 V uses a Runke (ie Mk 2) charger which replaced the dead original. (I bought it as an ex demonstrator with the dead original charger). I suspect the new software for the Runke is kinder, as it rarely gets more than 8-10 degrees above ambient. Killswitch and left lever flapping gives battery temp/voltage FYI.
However, does anyone know for sure either re better firmware with Runke or if it's possible to load the Laird's improved software onto it to extend the battery life (NB- getting the replacement charger up and running resulted in 2 sets of dead temp sensors before it charged properly).
All opinions gratefully received.
Many thanks,
Matt
Huge round of applause to the Laird, antiscab & able assistants for this intriguing topic. Quick Q: my 09 V uses a Runke (ie Mk 2) charger which replaced the dead original. (I bought it as an ex demonstrator with the dead original charger). I suspect the new software for the Runke is kinder, as it rarely gets more than 8-10 degrees above ambient. Killswitch and left lever flapping gives battery temp/voltage FYI.
However, does anyone know for sure either re better firmware with Runke or if it's possible to load the Laird's improved software onto it to extend the battery life (NB- getting the replacement charger up and running resulted in 2 sets of dead temp sensors before it charged properly).
All opinions gratefully received.
Many thanks,
Matt
Oops- double tap... Apols
Hi Matt,
regrettably, The Lairds firmware won't work with the Runke/EVPS charger
The little computer inside the two chargers are different :(
the old charger running either the old firmware, or The Laird's firmware will work without temp sensors.
Matt
Daily Ride:
2007 Vectrix, modified with 42 x Thundersky 60Ah in July 2010. Done 194'000km
Thanks Matt- as I gloomily suspected. Hopefully the small temp rises during charging represent a kinder charging philosophy. Otherwise, I'll be contacting you for an antiscab Li+ conversion...
Cheers, M