A new conversion LiFePO by Tennico

What I don't understand is why anyone would have to go to all the trouble when LiFeBATT has a "drop-in LiFePO4" solution right now using our new P-18 Prismatic Cells. I will attach a design drawing here for any comments? I don't have the interior dimensions of the Vectrix battery compartment. Interested parties may contact me directly by email: don [at] lifebatt.com
or visit our website: www.lifebatt.com

Hope to hear from you soon. I can't figure out how to attach a PDF to this message but I do have one if you contact me.

Hi to all, my friend tennico released a new conversion kit for the Vectrix.

I have had a few inquiries from Italy for my kit, but price and offering tech support in another language always seemed to be the stumbling block.

This new conversion looks interesting,

I can't tell from the video (not knowing the language doesn't help) but does that BMS interface with the bike CAN bus?

If it does, does it enforce low/high voltage limit in the charger and motor controller?

If not, does it disconnect the charger in the event of major cell imbalance or charger runaway?

If the BMS can not disconnect the charger, how have they overcome the locked up charger failure mode? (when the charger software locks up, it charges until the voltage reaches ~170vdc)

I counted only 40 cells, has the charger firmware been modified to lower the max charge voltage?
Ideally the pack voltage shouldn't go above 3.65v average (~146v for 40 cells)
Individual cells can be allowed to reach 4.2v, but after 4.3v the LiPFH6 begins to break down

What I don't understand is why anyone would have to go to all the trouble when LiFeBATT has a "drop-in LiFePO4" solution right now using our new P-18 Prismatic Cells. I will attach a design drawing here for any comments? I don't have the interior dimensions of the Vectrix battery compartment

How do you know if your solution is a drop in solution if you have yet to convert a Vectrix?

I would be interested to see the design drawing

how many Ah worth of the P-18 cells can you fit?

Matt

Hi guys I'm from italy tennico conversion was done with some of your tips but then I have worked out some things, first of all the bms it was modified to arrive at a cell voltage of 3.75 V, there are no interruptions the charger, then I modified the software loaded on the 38A, the bms so rarely intervenes, keeping bars and directions on the tools of the Vectrix, you soon will add another 2 cells to increase a little autonomy, and I'm planning for a conversion 50A while maintaining the flight instruments, Helping me that Laird has also given me thank you for understanding the operation of the HEX file carger. I hope that the translator has worked well. regards Stephen

I don't know for sure because we have never done it as you say. I just think it would make it much easier. I don't understand why so many BMS boards in the video?

I will try and upload a drawing here of the LiFeP04 Pack here:

So many bms, because one bms control 4-cell life,, so are 10 bms PCB x40 cells with LED indication of full charge. housing so that you do not cut or saw anything, preserving its fans for a possible dissipation bms that can cut on 3A charge.regards

We have One BMS that can handle 64 Cells mounted to it's own heat sink / Mosfet Board. This single BMS board saves so much space! Of course this is only for up to a 150Amp limit. Over this we have a VMS system that must be used. It is most important to understand the application, the motor / controller specs. in order to design an optimum battery pack system.

the bms it was modified to arrive at a cell voltage of 3.75 V, there are no interruptions the charger, then I modified the software loaded on the 38A, the bms so rarely intervenes, keeping bars and directions on the tools of the Vectrix, you soon will add another 2 cells to increase a little autonomy, and I'm planning for a conversion 50A while maintaining the flight instruments, Helping me that Laird has also given me thank you for understanding the operation of the HEX file carger. I hope that the translator has worked well. regards Stephen

Hi Stephen,

the lack of intervention needed by the BMS is what I have found aswell.

Since The Laird has been helping you, I presume you have been able to lower the chargers target voltage (good to see)

By no interuptions of the charger,
do you mean your BMS is not capable of disconnecting the charger?
or it just does not normally?

The reason I ask is there is a hardware fault inside the ESD charger that causes the processor that sets voltage and current limits to lock up/crash.
The result is the charger continues to charge at the full 1500W, but there is no voltage limit
It just keeps on going until it is disconnected from the powerpoint

I have seen this failure occur on several bikes including my own (firmware version didn't seem to matter)
It is relatively easy to spot:
the reported current stays accurate as that is reported to the CAN bus by the motor controller during charging.
The reported voltage and battery temperature does not change as that is reported by the charger.

On one of the bikes I have seen, all the cells were swollen, and the compression banding had failed as it had been left on charge for several hours over night.
on a nimh battery, this failure merely ruins the battery.
on a lithium battery, the results are somewhat worse....

If your BMS does have an output to drive a relay or something similar in the event a cell goes over voltage, than just use that to interrupt the charge in the event of a runaway condition.

Being able to go to 50Ah while keeping the fuel gauge would be very useful
I have CALB 70Ah presently, but with the new Headway 16Ah cells out, the next one will be 112Ah
I wonder what the upper limit would be...

regards,
Matt

Yes with the bms I can drive a relay to disconnect the carger, here we have never verified the fault, and you say that I read on your forum, sure to be safe if I do the assembly of this kit I will take it for greater security, I thank you let's keep us updated advice to exchange our test

Hi Stephen,

The fault is intermittent, I have not been able to identify the cause

Your conversion kit looks good, perhaps even easier to do than my own
Good Work

I hope to see many more conversions in Italy :)

Matt

Hi Matt .I thank other changes to improve your driving style are: swap the position of the brakes so that you use the regen in the best way at least for those who have made ​​the conversion, mount a measure 140/70/13 in the rear wheel instead of a 140 / 60/13 much better performance when cornering and on rough road, if there are no violation because it is not approved on registration of the vehicle!!!!!

Stefano

I've seen my charger crashing like you describe... very dangerous for the battery.I'm using a timer to stop the charge afetr some hours. Since I installed the Laird's firmware, I haven't seen it crashing again.

Someone please tell me what the kWh spec is for this conversion and what the C-rate is on the Cells being used is"

Hello boys, with regard to the charger I'm using a Hex file modified by myself and it's going bene.LFP040AH cell specification
Model name LFP040AHA Alternative product-marking LFP40AHA TS, WB-LYP40AHA
Nominal voltage 3.2 V Operating voltage is 3.0 V under load
Capacity 40 AH + / - 5%
Operating voltage up to 4.0V - 2.8V min At 80% DOD
Deep discharge voltage is 2.5 V The cells damaged if voltage drops bellow this level
The maximal charge voltage 4.2 V cells is damaged if this voltage Exceeds level
Optimal discharge current <20 A 0.5 C
Maximal discharge current <120 A 3 C, for up to 15 continuous minutes from full charge
Max peak discharge current <800 A 20 C, maximal 5 seconds in 1 minute
Optimal charge current <20 A 0.5 C
Maximal charge current <120 A <3 C with battery temperature monitoring
Maximal continuous operating
temperatures
The battery temperature 80 ° C INCREASE Should not this level
During charge and discharge
Dimensions 116 x 190 x 46 mm Millimeters (tolerance + / - 2 mm)
Weight 1.6 kg kilograms (tolerance + / - 150g)
These are the specific cells that I used
sites are GWL-Power or Evassemble

Hi guys, fascinating stuff going on there. Does anyone know of a person or company in California that can handle or perform this kind of conversion? Thank you.

Hi guys, fascinating stuff going on there. Does anyone know of a person or company in California that can handle or perform this kind of conversion? Thank you.

There's a few guys in Cal who have converted their own bikes using my kit, I will ask them if they would be interested in either converting yours, or trading bikes to use my newest kit

Matt

Hi guys, fascinating stuff going on there. Does anyone know of a person or company in California that can handle or perform this kind of conversion? Thank you.

There's a few guys in Cal who have converted their own bikes using my kit, I will ask them if they would be interested in either converting yours, or trading bikes to use my newest kit

Matt

Thank you Matt. That would be great. Thanks.

Hi guys, fascinating stuff going on there. Does anyone know of a person or company in California that can handle or perform this kind of conversion? Thank you.

There's a few guys in Cal who have converted their own bikes using my kit, I will ask them if they would be interested in either converting yours, or trading bikes to use my newest kit

Matt

Thank you Matt. That would be great. Thanks.

Being able to go to 50Ah while keeping the fuel gauge would be very useful
I have CALB 70Ah presently, but with the new Headway 16Ah cells out, the next one will be 112Ah
I wonder what the upper limit would be...

regards,
Matt

Hi Matt,

When I read your post I remembered this video I saw a few days ago:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UXsPEp0gXqo&feature=related

The guy fitted 225 Headway cells (if they are 16Ah it's an 80Ah pack). Not bad!!! They seem to be connected as a 5 cells*45 for a total of 225 cells.
At the end of the video you can clearly see that there is still some room available where the cooling fans are.
For you to put 112Ah in a Vectrix you would have to fit an extra 69 cells for a 42*7 pack or even 90 cells for a 45*7 pack.
Are you sure you can do that?
Even if you group them verticaly instead of the horizontal solution of this conversion, a 294 or 310 cell pack with 112Ah is something I (and the EV comunity) would like to see :)

Best regards

Sugarstorm

Just checked and they are 38120s so it's "just" a 50Ah pack.

Hello people with a montage is not wise to do all those cells, moreover without BMS, and then as it is cargered? a better fitting to individual cells safer and more manageable