New Technology: Elite Long Range E-Motorcycles Approximately 100 Miles, Per Single Charge, while maintaining 65 mph! Maximum

Hey! How about a "Free Loaner?"---Why? Because I am a long-time motorcyclist and retired Broadcast Engineer that understands electronics AND motorcycles. In addition, I do NOT rely on "Spell-Check" to write things, and I realize that your companys bike probably (Hopefully) does
not have "Regenerative Breaking" as so boldly stated in your advertisement! I DO believe that the vehicle may very well have regenerative BRAKING--the ability to convert energy of forward momentum into electrical power, for added range, rather than regenerative BREAKING, which implys that regeneration causes something to BREAK, or FAIL! (I think you intended to say BRAKE, as in STOP!)--Most computer programs FAIL in proper word selection or usage!

"100 miles at 65mph"

Impressive claim, but I find it hard to believe.

Looking at the website you mention what seem to be conflicting stats:

1. "10.8 kilowatts" - which I assume is a typo for 10.8kWh?
2. "155V, 75Ah" - which would be 11.625kWh. BTW, how many cells is "155V"? 46? 48? 50?

Assuming an 80% depth of discharge that results in energy usage of either 86Wh/Mile or 93Wh/Mile @ 65mph. That's pretty impressive but doesn't seem to correlate with other efficiency numbers for similar bikes.

Also a vehicle weight of 440lbs sounds suspiciously low. The battery pack alone likely weighs in at around 300lbs.

Hmmm.

Hi Jennifer,

Yes, I remember now. I wasn't sure whether it was you - but now I remember the conversation and your issues with X-Treme. However, if I were you I'd take a long hard look at that mileage and weight claim personally. Until you've personally ridden the bike that distance at that speed I'd remain leery. Alternatively wait until you've fully understood the data that goes into that claim.

For the range claim: One of the things that I think is happening with mileage claims from *some* (not all!) vendors is that they're extrapolating from dynamometer data. That might have worked somewhat when said vendors were selling <30mph speed bikes. However, with speeds greater than that wind resistance is going to play a big part. And at 65mph it's very significant indeed. So power draw at 65mph on the dyno is not equal to 65mph on the road unless you have a VERY expensive dyno that has been calibrated for the aerodynamic drag of your exact bike.

Hey, your range might be possible it's certainly much closer to the realms of possibility than some other claims out there. I'm just suspicious by nature ;-)

Weight & Battery Tech: Although newer technology packs have significantly higher energy density by volume they don't have the same gains energy density by weight. For example you might see a 75% gain in volumetric efficiency but only 20% gain in weight efficiency. So, while I might have been a little high on the 300lbs, I still imagine that the large pack is going to be 250lbs or more.

One thing you'll want to make sure you do if you're going to be better than X-Treme is take your own independent measurements. I do like what I see with your dealership requirements (and I remember having a long discussion about that!).

BTW, I do believe the top speed, and I'd love to ride the bike (155V vs our 96V would be fun!). Unfortunately I'm in the Midwest.... :-(

Good luck!

Hi John!!

You and I have talked at length before. I don't know if you remember me or not. I use to sell X-treme Scooters and didn't want to sell their scooters becuase the owner wouldn't put on a BMS on their scooters.

The reason why we can get the mileage is because we are using a new battery technology that is lighter weight than regular lithium ion cells. It is lithium Ion colbalt magnesium pouches. We are able to fit more of them into the motorcycle than regular GBS batteries, hense more mileage.

We are still in the testing stage to prove that the motorcycle will pull the mileage without any issues. But we are sooo excited!!

We hope to also educate others regarding the batteries and be a distributor for the west coast if everything works out right. If we can get a lot of orders at one time from the manufacturer, than the price of the batteries go down. Right now the batteries are very expensive.

Call me and we can talk at length about what we are doing. We are also looking into having dealers for our motorcycles. We would love for you to come and take a look at it and even ride it to get your opinion.

I can't remember though, if you are on the west coast or not. Call me!! I don't mind sharing info! We are mostly interested in getting more electrical vehicles out on the road than worry about competition. I'm not a competitive person. I like to work with people and help eveyone to be successful. I believe it is time that e- motorcycles can be taken sesrious with the new battery technology!!!

Thanks for responding! Jennifer Northern 425-270-1351

Yes,good idea,everyone success thus lithium battery prices would be dropped very soon !

"100 miles at 65mph"

Impressive claim, but I find it hard to believe.

Looking at the website you mention what seem to be conflicting stats:

1. "10.8 kilowatts" - which I assume is a typo for 10.8kWh?
2. "155V, 75Ah" - which would be 11.625kWh. BTW, how many cells is "155V"? 46? 48? 50?

Assuming an 80% depth of discharge that results in energy usage of either 86Wh/Mile or 93Wh/Mile @ 65mph. That's pretty impressive but doesn't seem to correlate with other efficiency numbers for similar bikes.

Also a vehicle weight of 440lbs sounds suspiciously low. The battery pack alone likely weighs in at around 300lbs.

Hmmm.

I've been reading Zero and Brammo spec sheets closely lately and ... first ... both are claiming 100+ mile range, but at city speeds, and the claim for highway speed (70 miles/hr) is much lower (50-60 miles). In both cases the battery pack is 9 kwh or so, a bit smaller than this one.

The other thing I learned is that the SAE and/or Motorcycle Industry Council is working on standardized testing protocols for speed & range on electric motorcycles.

There was a recent press release about a protocol for determining top speed: http://blog.greentransportation.info/2012/04/protocol-for-determining-electric.html

John, I'm sure you are probably up on this, right?

Jen, if you want more range, please work on the body design. Scooter (and motorcycle) bodies have generally poor aerodynamics, so there's lots of room for improvement. And the effects of good aerodynamics are much more significant at higher speeds.

If you want to see a really serious approach to streamlining, check out the work of Craig Vetter:
http://craigvetter.com/pages/470MPG/Last%20Vetter%20Fairing.html

Vetter used a classic Honda Helix as his base, and went from there. I'm sure most any scooter frame would make a suitable starting point, it's the bodywork that counts. And with an electric scooter, you don't have the same space requirements and mechanical linkage issues as a gas engine, so you can stuff electrical components into places that might otherwise be unused, like the tapering tail space.

At what speed is the bike capable of 85 miles range? If it's 30MPH, then I suggest you reassess for 45MPH. If it's already 45MPH or better, than you alreday have enough range to make the bike exceptional. One thing we all want to see from manufacturers is realistic, real-world range numbers. My ZEV is capable of going 50 miles at 50MPH, but that's on completely flat ground, with, I assume, a light rider. The real-world range in terrain with hills is half that.

I went back over the topic to the first couple of posts, and you are claiming 80 miles range (revised here) at 65MPH? That sounds suspiciously like either an extrapolation or a run on completely flat pavement...

Sorry to bump.

But it looks like the Company is no longer. Not a surprise.
short google search shows that Ningbo Jianuo Vehicle Industry Co (china) was their supplier.

Again it would be to $$$ for anyone to want.

But it is a VERY good read and had some Great info from other readers here..... hence the bump in the topic.

I wondered if anyone else still likes their bigger rides ?

Bigger as in...?
I LOVE my e-Sprit Fury / Erider Thunder ride, particularly now that I can heat its battery not only from the grid, but also from the battery itself while parked at work. Never again do I want to ride an ICE motorcylce / maxiscooter, that is such ancient technology :-)

But my ride's importer has also gone down the drain :-(

Dang, that is too bad; sorry to see them fail. We need more e-moto companies. Good to see CUMOCO still in business and attending trade shows. ZEV seems to be more word-of-mouth marketing. The new Brammo & Zero offerings are quite impressive, and I believe will do better in the U.S. than maxi-scooters.

Maxi-scooters - I'm still happy with my ZEV 6100. In 5600 miles, drive train (motor, controller, and battery) has been flawless. Only problem was with a bad front wheel that developed a fracture or so the shop told me as they were trueing the wheel for a slight imperfection.