Fried Zapino Stock Battery Charger

I had to check the Zapino web site for a critical piece of data. The pack voltage is: 60v.

This presents a little problem. It's hard to find 60v chargers. 48v no problem. 60? It seems that 60v is a rare pack voltage except for the fact we have several instances of scooters commonly used here that are 60v.

My Lectra motorcycle also has a 60v pack and I had a bit of a journey last winter finding a charger.

http://visforvoltage.org/blog/reikiman/2726

I eventually bought this. It is unfortunately a 1.8 amp charger meaning it's a slow charge. But.. it's small, light, etc, and 60v.

http://monsterscooterparts.com/60vo18ampbac.html

However I've since switched to a pseudo-bank-charging setup. Laying around my garage was a pile of chargers and I had 2x24v5A and 1x12v5A chargers. Today I carry these three chargers on the bike, they're ziptied together to make it simpler to connect, and they go in the trunk. I have less worry about pack balance, the bike charges more quickly, and there's that extra geek factor to have multitudes of power cords ziptied together.

BTW I would think your charger is under warranty...????

How much was the replacement charger from Zap! and what number did you call. I've been quoted something like $250 for a new charger. The one I have seems to just shut off and not charge (no smoke or anything). It's been about a year using my Zapino so apparently it's out of the 6 month warranty even though this feels like a defective charger.

I've found some 5amp, 60v battery chargers online, and it looks like the if I use my original Zapino cord to the adapter it should work, anyone know anything about chargers and batteries and the 2008 Zapino and can tell me if I should buy this charger:

60 Volt, 5 Amp Lead Acid Battery Charger:
http://www.batterymart.com/p-6010sr-xlr-60v-5a-battery-charger.html?utm_source=Google&utm_medium=Base&utm_campaign=ComparisonSho...

* Max. Output Power: 360W
* Input Voltage: 115Vac / 230Vac
* Output Voltage: +72+/-0.2Vdc
* Output Current Range: 5.0A+/-0.2A
* Voltage Tolerance: +/-0.2V
* Safety approvals: CE
* Meets UL/cUL requirements

From what I can tell from the Zapino 2008 manual (page 6) it's stock charger is:
http://www.zapworld.com/files/zap-docs/zapino-owner%27s-manual-revised.pdf

Zapino Charger:
5A
110v~250v
50Hz~60Hz

You can plug in two chargers to once like I do on most of my scooters. On the XM-2000 and XM-3000 it comes with IEC connectors and I installed a three pin microphone connector and use a Yellow Teking charger rated at 60 volt pack at 3.0 Amp and really does 2.5 to 2.6 Amperes. I got mine from TNC scooters. I mainly use one or two low current chargers and when I have to get home fast I use stock 5 Amp charger and one Teking charger and get a near full charge in3 hours. One good thing about TNC scooters does is test each and every charger and put their own label on it. I have 6 chargers and most are 69.1 and two say 68.9 and wow so close. I would rather replace low cost chargers vs the expensive Soneil chargers.
Having a 3 pin and IEC plugs gives me versatility I need and like. I am glad you got a replacement in warranty.
Rusty

My stock charger died;lasted less than 5 months. I need to replace it desperately. $250 seems so spendy to me; for a device that may fail in less than six months.

I got a total run around from Zap customer service. It was still under warranty at the time but now is not.

Any advice? I love my Zapino.

my first post here, (hi everyone),

Here is one for sale on ebay:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=290373678509&rvr_id=&crlp=1_263602_263622&UA=WXF%3F&GUID=fd6ba0171240a0e20285...

I have a used one I will sell you for $35. Let me know if you are interested. This is a 3 amp charger, bot as fast as the 5amp stock charger but more dependable

My Origional Charger is still working but the power cord connection is really loose. I used electrician tape to temporarily fix it but may need to replace the whole unit if that fails.

thanks, but it is 60 Volt Charger PC Style Plug Electric Scooter Charger, can you offer me a 12 volt charger?

I have a number of bikes and scooters. And a fair collection of chargers also. But my best one to find in an instant is my VARIAC and a full wave bridge rectifier with an amp meter. I dial up a voltage and dial up current till I get to the approximate voltage and current I want and need. I now watch it like a hawk. If you want to make it limit the current put in a 12 volt RV lamp in series and the max current you can get is 5 amperes for a 50 watt bulb usually it hangs around 4 amperes. That way will help diagnose pack voltage by measure each 12 volt battery. That is how I found out one battery was different on my XM-3000 and I ignored it till one day if blew up. You can make adapters also to convert one brand to another brand too. BTW a company in Tenn sells a cheap and reliable charger and they SMOKE test each and every one they sell so you don't have to let the smoke out your self. Just make every battery in your scooter is 2.3 to a max of 2.35 v/c id est thirteen point eight tish or so. I think most people on this list has a VARIAC - reg trademark or a varying AC transformer otherwise known as an autotransformer.

Happy news!
On a wild hunch, I ordered one of these, even though it was described as being for 220 volts, 50 Hz:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/60V-10A-14A-60Volt-Battery-Charger-for-Electric-Scooter-Bike-E-bike-/251237442664?pt=Other_Vehicle_Parts...

I was thinking it might be McGuyvered to run it on 120-volts 60 Hz. Happy surprise. It uses a switchmode power supply, which works just fine on good old American AC. Not bad for thirty bucks! I've tested it against the stock Zapino charger, and the cutoff point is right on. Have logged a few hundred KM using it; no problems. Being lower current, it does take longer, but your batteries should be much happier with a lower charging rate.
Hope this helps.
Scoot on,
Randy W
Santa Rosa CA

Has anyone thought of adding a 6th battery for a 72V set up? Should get a bit more speed and range, no? I wonder if the controller handle it? Guess I'd need a 72V charger then, right?

So I did it. I connected a 6th 12V battery in series and tested the motor and controller at 72V. No way to test RPM's but in low speed settings, RPM's increased noticeably. I think I'd get an extra 5-7MPH easy (32-37mph). In High speed mode, I heard a significant increase in motor speed, WOW! Sounds like a difference of about 10-15MPH not to mention extra torque and pulling power. Looks like the stock controller can handle it. Not sure how it will do under load but I will find out this weekend when I fabricate a box and install the 6th battery. While testing, the motor got only slightly warm and the controller did not seem to heat up at all. I'll report back when my set up is complete!

Hey Ookba (Jim?)
This is exciting news! You are a brave man! We're all eager to see how this works in real-world use. Have you thought of just attaching the battery to the floorboard as a temporary test? We can't wait! Thanks for being a true ZaPioneer!

If the 72-volt mod proves successful, I'd just charge the additional battery separately, with a 12-vold charger. Ideally ALL batteries should be charged individually (bank-charging), rather than in series, (string-charging) as they are now.

In another post, you mentioned attaching your battery charger to the scoot. I'd be kinda, no, VERY careful, here. These are not nearly as rugged at the controllers. Inside, there is a large toroid, wound with #16 (?) copper wire. It is heavy, and is not supported well. It could pull our of the PC board or the wires could chafe against each-other and short-out. I'd recommend adding supporting devices to this toroid so it doesn't flop around. Maybe popsicle-sticks and silicone caulk?
It runs plenty warm, so don't cover it with too much goop or block the airflow. Better yet, carry it carefully, wrapped in a towel or your coat under your seat.

Cheers!
Randy W

Hey Randy! Brad (LA area), not Jim. :) Haha, Zapioneer! Thanks for the tip on the charger. Haven't had time to crack it open yet but will have to do so now. Wonder if I can mod it and install a switch for it to output 60V and 72V (resistors?). Anyways, I did it! I wired in another 12V 35A in series, dropped it in the seat box. Output voltage jumped to around 77V. DC-DC output remained 12V which is good for the low voltage circuits. Took the Zap for a spin around the hood. Felt a bit torquier off the line, still laggy in the middle but definitely got some top end now! Low speed setting at 60V got me up to around 26-28 mph, with 72V I get 32-33. Couldn't quite max it out in the high speed setting (25MPH local speed limit and ran out of road) but got up to 42 pretty easily and was still pulling. I am pretty sure it will get up 50. Pulled over and did the feel and smell test on the motor and controller and surprisingly all was warm but cool enough to touch (note that it is currently 90 deg outside and sunny). No mosfet burning smell to report. Still want to pull the controller apart and verify the part numbers on the mosfets and caps. At this point, I am almost sure they're rated above 60V since I did not run into any heat issues for full throttle 1-2 miles I rode at 72V. My hypothesis is that adding 12V to an already high voltage system is not much (15% or so). The battery gauge is going to need an adjustment since it's looking for 60V. Although it may be a good thing if the system is looking for 60V but it's getting 72V. May go slower as the batteries die but engine cut won't happen until the system sees below 60V (could be good and bad for the SLA's). I'll ride around a bit more later when it cools down and see if I can get more accurate calc's at 72V. So far, success!

FYI, the 72-volt discussion continues on "Zapino Performance Mods".

Thanks Randy, forgot to post that. Off topic but what are the main differences of 2007 and 2008 Zapinos? I have a lead on a 2007 with only 100 mi for cheap and am wondering if I should pick it up as a spare. Ultimately, I want to find a good all-around electric scooter that will have good power, good stock parts, and will last. Not sure what that is right now. Looking at the X-Treme XM-5000Li or XM-3500Li. Don't want anything too big like the Vectrix though. Any thoughts?

Hi Brad,
I may be wrong here, but I believe the 2007s and 2008s may have been sourced from different manufacturers. ZAP! doesn't really "build" anything. The controller and motor appear to be different, though they are probably similar in operation. Not easily interchangeable. The "fuel gauge" changed from a series of LEDs to an analog voltmeter. As far as I know, there's probably nothing tragically wrong with the 2007s.
What is "cheap"? I see them on Craigslist for $750.00 to $1200.
My buddy and I will have two black '08s for sale, new batteries, probably at the $1000.00 mark.
ZAP! supposedly is introducing a new line-up, but nothing new on their website. They're looking for dealers, but with their history, no dealer wants to go there. They have some models on display, here in Santa Rosa. Those may be the only ones in existence, though.
As far as new candidates, the "BMW C evolution" looks promising; 65 MPH or 75 miles per charge. Probably not both.
Are the X-Treme people still in business?
E-Fun, R Martin, EVD may still be around?
Wonder if it's worth starting a new thread along the line of "What scooters are available NOW?"
If Yamaha or Honda got involved, our prayers would be answered. Not sure why they're slow to market something.
Good luck!
Randy

I would say, yes, start a new thread. I'd like to see other people's input on what's current and what's out there. After research and at the moment, the Zapino gives the most bang for the buck. Aesthetics are a bit dated but performance and specs seem to hail in comparison to other electric "mopeds" out there. Did you register yours as a moped in CA? So far, I've been cruising around unregistered with a E-BIKE plate insert- no problems yet. The Zapino I found was listed for 750 but I may have talked them down to 500, which would be a good deal assuming the batteries are healthy and it's in good physical shape. Still am considering doing the 72V mod permanently but I keep thinking of issues that may arise such as the 60V regen system, battery analog gauge false reporting, and heat (controller components) to name a few. Was nice doing 52 MPH on a straight road when I was testing though. (Scary about the motors seizing!!)

I've registered mine officially as a moped in CA. I figure the law-enforcement officials will see it is a moped, and will not stop me to ask why there is no license plate.
I have started the thread "What large scooters are "current"-ly available in the U.S.?"
It is just below a "sticky", which is just below the "Zapino" heading. Let's see what turns-up!

I've registered mine officially as a moped in CA. I figure the law-enforcement officials will see it is a moped, and will not stop me to ask why there is no license plate.
I have started the thread "What large scooters are "current"-ly available in the U.S.?"
It is just below a "sticky", which is just below the "Zapino" heading. Let's see what turns-up!

Thanks for the info. Don't see the thread though. Oh, do you get a weird motor vibration when the battery gets well into the yellow section under 15MPH? Or is it just me?

I think they all do this. I suspect the "logic" that creates the multi-phase drive is being starved for juice, and it freaks-out. Hard acceleration (large voltage drop) provokes it. Slow throttle roll-on eases the problem.
The thread I started is here:
http://visforvoltage.org/forum/13564-what-large-scooters-are-current-ly-available-us

Ahh, yes, makes sense. Another thing 72V will most likely help since it's looking for 60V. As voltage drops, the Zapino should still create good power. Gonna tear apart the Controller today. I'll post pics later.

Meanwhile, back to Battery chargers...
I found a couple of vendors selling THESE on eBay:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/60V-5A-Charger-For-LiFePO4-Battery-ebike-DIY-220V-110V-By-air-mail-/140956168314?pt=Battery_Chargers&has...

Bought one, just to see how it might work with our 60-volt SLA packs. WINNER! Full 5 amps, like the stock unit. The one I got cuts-off just a smidgeon after the stock charger, at 72.9 volts or 14.58 per battery. They seem to be much more efficient; not nearly as hot or noisy as the stock unit, are nicely-built, and are more rugged than the stock charger. Those had parts inside that flop-around if the unit is treated roughly. I wouldn't hesitate to carry this one with me on the scooter. A neat bonus is that the fan continues to run at a lower speed after the charge cycle, until the unit cools-down.
Comes with the proper IEC ("computer-type") connector, polarity is correct, has an LED for POWER and a two-color LED for CHARGIBG and CHARGED. Has a 110/220 switch that came set to 220.
Y
For around $60.00, you might want to consider picking one of these up as a spare.

Meanwhile, back to Battery chargers...
I found a couple of vendors selling THESE on eBay:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/60V-5A-Charger-For-LiFePO4-Battery-ebike-DIY-220V-110V-By-air-mail-/140956168314?pt=Battery_Chargers&has...

Bought one, just to see how it might work with our 60-volt SLA packs. Tested it, took it apart to check it out, ran it through a cycle on a mostly-discharged Zapino, and tested it again.
WINNER!
Full 5 amps, like the stock unit. The one I got cuts-off just a smidgeon after the stock charger, at 72.9 volts or 14.58 per battery. They seem to be much more efficient; not nearly as hot or noisy as the stock unit, are nicely-built, and are more rugged than the stock charger. Those had parts inside that flop-around if the unit is treated roughly. I wouldn't hesitate to carry this one with me on the scooter. A neat bonus is that the fan continues to run at a lower speed after the charge cycle, until the unit cools-down. They do look a little -uh- homely, though
Comes with the proper IEC ("computer-type") connector, polarity is correct, has an LED for POWER and a two-color LED for CHARGING and CHARGED. Has a 110/220 switch that came set to 220.
For $55.00 delivered, you might want to consider picking one of these up as a spare.

Hey Randy,
I too am needing to replace my fried Zapino charger and looked online at the one you bought from eBay. Is yours still working? I don't know a great deal about how these things work and I noticed that the title of the product says it's 60v but the product description says the output is 75v. Is that a problem? I tried the other Chinese 60v charger available on eBay http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=251237442664&fromMakeTrack=true&ssPageName=VIP:watchlink:top:en but fried it most likely due to the fact that I don't have 220 available at my cabin and I carried the unit in my scooter on bumpy roads. I just talked to the guy at the Zap warehouse today and they are selling the stock charger for $109 plus tax and shipping. I live in Sonoma county so I could pick it up myself but I am not convinced it is the best solution for me as I travel on bumpy West County roads. I'd love to find a solution that doesn't end up in the dump after 2 months. Any advice you have would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks,
Kate
Occidental, CA

Hi Kate, fellow Zapinonista!
Thanks for the note.
The charger you asked about is still working fine. It is my preferred charger, and is used almost daily. Still recommend it. As I mentioned a few posts ago, the stock charger has a couple of heavy, un-restrained parts, and is really meant only for stationary applications. I believe the eBay one to be better-suited for carrying-around.
Not sure why your "little" one failed. Mine seems to run fine on regular 110-volts.
Let me know if you need any plastic pieces; I've got a back yard-ful!
Happy scootering!
Randy

See comment below

Hey Randy,

Thanks for your response. I posted a reply to the main thread but not to your comment directly - oops! Are you still in Santa Rosa and willing to help me trouble shoot a short in my Zapino? I have now fried 3 chargers :(. If you have the know how and are willing, I'd be happy to pay you. It is just sitting in the shed taking up space! I'd love to get it running and am willing to drive it over in my truck. Let me know what you think!

Thanks,
Kate