Need a bunch of help.

I was afraid of something like this. If you read the reviews of the "Jetson" at amazon, there are quite a few that arrived with defective batteries, and their customer service is terrible.

"I am frankly getting very tired and angry at the goddamn Chinese, who seem to have unscrupulousness bred in their genes, swindling people who are only trying to "do the right thing" for the planet. Call me a Sino-phobic racist, I don't care."

I agree about Chinese manufacturing in general, but it isn't anything to do with genetics - it's a cultural issue. They acquired a 'bad meme' from us Criminal Capitalists, and it's thriving...

Anyway, if you want a really good battery pack for the bike, I strongly suggest you order a Ping Pack, from Li Ping at http://www.pingbattery.com He is the exception to the rule about Chinese products, from his excellent communication via email, to the actual products. I have a 20AH 24 volt Ping pack that I've been using for about a year now, in all seasons, multiple times a week, with zero problems. Few people have problems with Ping packs, and when they do he resolves them. I suggest you price a 20AH 48V pack and charger from him, and see if he can build it to fit your battery compartment.

Garmp

Since you say that you do not need speed or range, just carrying ability and the ability to load on your RV---the low cost option is the ZEV Electric Cargo Bicycle in the higher power of 2000 to 4000 watts. They are not really a bicycle, but were originally designed for us to sell in Vietnam and India to haul freight. But it is now selling in the USA where people want something that fits the no license laws and by hunters to carry or drag dead deer. In the higher power with the 72 volt system its a pocket rocket. http://youtu.be/ROacWS5YWqY The bike comes with double rear shocks and fold out load platforms to haul big loads. It has 6 20 ah cells for a lot of battery capacity. Since this dual rear shock photo was taken the front suspension was changed to like on this yellow 4000w. The double stator motor has dual controllers so you can switch down to low power and squeeze really good range out of it.

The other bike that has seen a lot of use by customers for exactly what you write of is the ZEV 2700. It was built as a delivery cargo bike also. One of the customers has one on the trailer tongue. Several have them on the back of RVs and people have them on their boats. There is more weight carrying margin in this bike. It has a double stator motor in it also.

As Lefti Biker suggested, the no brainer is the ZEV3600 or 4100. It can do anything you want with ease, but you need a carrier or rack that will handle the higher bike weight.

We do use oil cooling in our motors. They are not oil "filed" up full, but do contain quite a bit of special oil that increases the dielectric aspects of the wiring, stops corrosion, helps cooling. Contrary to speculation, there is not one sign of drag or resistance on the motor. On the dyno, when run to full rpm with and without oil, there is not one rev lost.

The motors are assembled in the USA and we make the controllers using USA MOSFET and other parts. We do have motor windings made in China and do use castings we can buy in China for the less than 20 kw motors.

The State of West Virginia just notified us that they are funding a grant for the development of a 30 kw motor.

The demo area is Morgantown, WV. You are welcome to come and drive.

DH Zehrbach II

" I strongly suggest you order a Ping Pack,... with zero problems. ... I suggest you price a 20AH 48V pack and charger from him, and see if he can build it to fit your battery compartment.

Thank you for your feedback and vote of confidence in Ping, as I suspect others have gone through these battery issues.

This makes a lot of sense to me, as I do like the Jetson bike itself.

You're welcome. A high quality 48 volt pack is useful for more than one vehicle, whereas a new "Jetson" pack would only be useful for that bike. The only caveat re the Ping packs is that while the discharge rate is more than high enough to power your bike, it might be a little low for, say, a large scooter. On the other hand, the newest version (V2.5) may well handle that as well. Mine can do "2C" for short bursts, which means 'twice the capacity of the pack as power output', in my case 40 amps. I never use more than 25 amps or so on my EZIP electric bicycles.

there will be points to check individual cell voltages (don't short across them!) on the board or wire leads going to it.

I don't know what you mean by 'short across them'. I'll have to learn more before I do anything.

He means do not short-circuit the plus and minus poles of the cells you measure, i.e. make sure you do not put an electical conductor accross both poles. People have accidentally dropped spanners/wrenches, screwdrivers, plyers and the likes on their cells and the resulting fireworks can be catastrophic. If the cell poles are close enough together and the contacting tips of your measuring leads are long enough even one of those could accidentally short-circuit the cell. Or you accidentially could have your multimeter turned to current (A) instead of volatage (V) measurement.

So all that was abbreviated to "don't short across them!" ;-)

"but it isn't anything to do with genetics - it's a cultural issue..."

I agree, I was using the term figuratively. But the deadly machine failure we investigated and found to be caused by Chinese shoddiness has left me with little patience with them.

Battery Type: Lithium Battery
Battery Voltage: 48V (12V x 4)
Battery Capacity: 17Ah

That's peculiar. Except for a now-defunct US start up (forgot their name), I've never heard of high capacity lithium cells (bigger than a laptop PC pack) in a 12-volt battery format (presumably 4 cells in a case in the manner of the six cells in a 12V lead-acid battery). And the 17AH is suspicious too - that's a standard SLA battery size.

How heavy is the battery pack? Could it actually be a SLA (sealed lead-acid) pack? Send pictures when you can.

How heavy is the battery pack?

The pack is about 20 pounds.

Could it actually be a SLA (sealed lead-acid) pack?

I started to question this myself after you mentioned it.

I took a picture of the outside of the battery. I didn't have the long screw driver (thin) to open up the case. I'll have to find something to open it up. On the recharging, I'm limited to about 2 miles of range. Good enough for my downtown Chicago errands but I cannot venture further than that. I'm at a loss as to how to solve this and I will continue to keep searching for a solution.

How heavy is the battery pack?

The pack is about 20 pounds.

Could it actually be a SLA (sealed lead-acid) pack?

I started to question this myself after you mentioned it.

I took a picture of the outside of the battery. I didn't have the long screw driver (thin) to open up the case. I'll have to find something to open it up. On the recharging, I'm limited to about 2 miles of range. Good enough for my downtown Chicago errands but I cannot venture further than that. I'm at a loss as to how to solve this and I will continue to keep searching for a solution.

This what mine looks like inside:

It's in a scooter very similar to yours, this is also supposed to be 17Ah, but I doubt it. There are 13 packs in serial consisting of 5 cells in parallell. Do not think that these cells (26650 size) has 3.4Ah each..

I have had this scooter for like 3 years (not using it very much) and a couple of months ago the range reduced drasticly and soon after it wouldn't go at all.
After taking the box apart and measuring the cells I found that the BMS had not been able to keep the battery balanced and one pack was very low causing the BMS to cut the power.
After charging this pack (5 cells) and another lowish one separately it runs fine again. Don't know for how long though, going so low in voltage might have caused damage to certain packs.
I also changed the BMS to a better one thinking the old one could be causing the problem.

After taking the box apart and measuring the cells I found that the BMS had not been able to keep the battery balanced and one pack was very low causing the BMS to cut the power.
After charging this pack (5 cells) and another lowish one separately it runs fine again. Don't know for how long though, going so low in voltage might have caused damage to certain packs.
I also changed the BMS to a better one thinking the old one could be causing the problem.

You are way ahead of me on skill level. I've started reading all that I can and I'm searching for books that can give me direction. I ordered a multimeter and will soon open up the battery case to see what I have to work with.

Ordering another battery is an option but then I risk getting the same results.

Thanks for your input on this.

Here are some 3.3AH 266560 Li FE PO4 cells here:

http://www.batteryspace.com/lifepo4-26650-rechargeable-cell-3-2v-3300-mah-19-8a-rate-10wh---un38-3-passed-ndgr.aspx

So it might be close to 17AH.

But it is dishonest to call it a "48 volt" pack. The nominal voltage under the maximum continuous current for these cells is about 3.0 volts per cell or just 39 volts for this 13S pack. It needs 16 cells in series to be a legitimate "48 volt" pack. It seems they are incorrectly using the end-of-charging voltage (3.6 to 3.7 volts per cell) to call it a "48 volts." This would be like calling a 12 volt lead acid battery a "14.2-volt battery"

And it just occurred to me that this may be one reason for the premature low-pack shutoff - the BMS may be set to shut off at 2.5 volts per cell x 16 cells or about 40 volts. This means that under a good load or cool temperatures or just a slight imbalance, it may be shutting off prematurely.

Here are some 3.3AH 266560 Li FE PO4 cells here:

http://www.batteryspace.com/lifepo4-26650-rechargeable-cell-3-2v-3300-mah-19-8a-rate-10wh---un38-3-passed-ndgr.aspx

So it might be close to 17AH.

But it is dishonest to call it a "48 volt" pack. The nominal voltage under the maximum continuous current for these cells is about 3.0 volts per cell or just 39 volts for this 13S pack. It needs 16 cells in series to be a legitimate "48 volt" pack. It seems they are incorrectly using the end-of-charging voltage (3.6 to 3.7 volts per cell) to call it a "48 volts." This would be like calling a 12 volt lead acid battery a "14.2-volt battery"

And it just occurred to me that this may be one reason for the premature low-pack shutoff - the BMS may be set to shut off at 2.5 volts per cell x 16 cells or about 40 volts. This means that under a good load or cool temperatures or just a slight imbalance, it may be shutting off prematurely.

Mine are not LiFePo4, they are Li-Po (or similar chemistry) and therefore have nominal voltage of 3.7V/each, total = 48.1V.

This means that under a good load or cool temperatures or just a slight imbalance, it may be shutting off prematurely.

I don't yet know the answer to that.

I did receive a replacement battery from the Jetson distributor in NY and it was fully charged when I received it. I was able to ride with my wife to her gym, which is about 6 city blocks away, at a 17mph, or so, speed. I went for a longer ride, of about 4 miles, and the Jetson bike handles itself on the streets nicely, cruising at about 20 to 23mph.

I'm afraid the laws of physics will slow the bike a lot with two people on board.

Yes, very true. There is less torque and much patience is required until the bike picks up momentum.

I recharged the new battery and it seems to fully charge. I have yet to figure out how to measure any wattage displacements.

A high quality 48 volt pack is useful for more than one vehicle, whereas a new "Jetson" pack would only be useful for that bike.

I did connect with Ping and I'm considering a pack from them, only I don't know what a 'high quality' pack is and so I've asked for a recommendation. Would their pack provide me with a better torque pick up?

By "high quality pack" I meant one with good to excellent components and build quality, a battery management system ("BMS") and a long life. Ping packs seem to provide all three. They aren't the first choice for high performance, but the relative lack of "voltage sag" in good lithium packs means better 'off the line' performance and better hill climbing. My EZIP bike is supposedly running at the same voltage as the SLA version, but it accelerates faster and climbs hills much better. It even runs a little faster for the first mile or so when fully charged. Since you have a lithium pack now I can't guarantee more performance from a Ping pack, but let's just say that it wouldn't surprise me...

more performance from a Ping pack, but let's just say that it wouldn't surprise me...

My short term problem is solved with two batteries to give me more range. I will get a battery from Ping as you mentioned. I appreciate the feedback.

Here's how I carried the extra battery on the Jetson Bike for about an 18 mile roundtrip ride.

I am looking for something to carry my wife & I around a campground. A vehicle that'll carry 370 lbs, yet manageable by a single person. Don't need to go far, nor fast. Maybe from our campsite to the beach and back, to the camp store for a bag of ice, etc. Want to carry it on the back of our van/trailer hitch.

Getting back to your question, Garmp. I took my wife to breakfast on the Jetson to a place that we have not visited for a while because it is two miles away. We returned home and still had enough battery juice to do other errands. Once we slowly started up from a complete stop, we could cruise at about 17 mph, good enough for city traffic. The bike is solid enough and the battery is also good enough. I would consider a spare so that you could always be on the go.