60v to 72v upgrade on a VRLA EVD

Alternatively, we could drive in foot-deep streams always.

For cooling the controller, I am wondering about installing a large-sized vacuum bose nipple on the front and back sides of the controller unit. If I sized it to be accommodate a PCV hose, I could run the hose up to the cowel and put a standard PCV breather filter on it. This would be a cheap way to get filtered air into the inside of the controller. Then I'd have to create a way to bring air into the cowel through a grille of some sort. I'm not home right now but am pretty sure that can me done. There may already be an opening there to cool off the DC to CD converter. I'd put a breather filter on the exit tube as well, after routing it into the rear cowling.

My first impression is to make room for the front nipple at at the front bottom of the controller case and the rear at the top. Because the controller tilts forward some, that design should send in the maximum amount of air flow over the components.

For the hub motor. my recollection is that every part of the case spins with the wheel. The shaft, with its opening for the wires, appears to be the only stationary piece. I'd have to dismantle the thing to figure it out but am wondering about sending a vaccuum tube into the unit, accompanying the wire loom. The question then is how an airflow would be established through an exit point.

Does this make any sense?

Jeff

Tim:

I found a threaded heater hose fitting on eBay. The question is whether the end panels on the controller (non finned pieces) have enough clearance to accommodate the threads and nut on the inside of the panel. You would know better than me, having disassembled the controller.

To see the fitting, type in 'Stainless Heater Hose Fitting' into the eBay search box. Typd in 'crankcase breather filter' to see what I am thinking about fitting on each end of the hoses.

Hopefully, there is room to affix the fitting.

Jeff

Tim

I sent a separate email to you in detail but thought it wise to post my response in case others are following this string. If a fan is used, I'm thinking it can be directed as an exhaust unit on the back side of the controller, where there isn't anything attached, if memory serves me correctly. I found a brushless 25X10mm on ebay (an inch square and about 3/8 deep). That could mounted directly on the controller end panel. The upper end make sense, given the diagonal mounting. Type in ' brushless 25X10mm ' into eBay and you'll see what I mean.

With forced air flow, I will likely opt to put the input and output breather tube filters inside the plastic storage compartment under the seat, with the circuit breaker. There will be a little challenge funneling down the output from the inch square fan to the actual tube size but that is doable with some creativity.

Jeff

Tim

Very helpful perspective. I'll be home next week and give this a try. Many thanks

Jeff

Well, I do admire your fortitude in ordering a Kelly. From what I've seen online, customer support appears to come from a Mr. Li in China. Variable regen makes sense and could lead to shutting it off altogether in favor of a cooler motor. I'll be interested in seeing your results with that and your experience with the new controller. I am developing a bill of materials for the controller cooling process. After I install and give it a try, I'll post the results.

Tim:

Sorry to hear about this. Hopefully they will allow a return. In March, 'Fany' from Kelly had this recommendation about my overheating issues:

'I will suggest the controller KEB72601 (72V 200A peak 100A continuous regen) to you. Do you like regen brake? If not, you may consider the controller KEB72600. Please see: http://www.newkellycontroller.com/product_info.php?cPath=24&products_id=278 The controller can operate with 24V-72V nominal batteries. I think the controller you are using is not enough strong to drive the motor.' Looks like they want $349 for it.

After seeing this I considered looking at some of their motors as well, thinking that a matched set might be the most effective method of overcoming the deficiencies of the current setup. What I found on the positive side was that Mavizen, a builder of road-racing electric motorcycles, is using Kelly Controllers. On the negative side were the individual users who dealt with various customer service issues.

Their web site does not seem to indicate the motor or controller phases but, logically, a pole every 60 degrees ...

Jeff

Tim:

I've actually made some progress on my cooling project. I have two, one inch plastic pieces epoxied into the end plates of the controller. Also have a good length of 1 inch inside diameter plastic piping, a fan and a filter for the incoming end.

All this sounds great except while working on the end plate there were these paired black an white wires that appeared to extend across the plate area and must plug in somewhere on the curcuit board. As I was working on the plate with all the wires on it, the black and white wire set fell out, exposing a two-pronged plug on the end. I have no idea where this is supposed to plug in. Also, sicne the heat syncs are glued in, it is nigh unto impossible to extract them so that I can do a thorough once over of the board to find a sympathetic recepticle.

Do you remember such a pair of wires that appear to go from one side of the circuit board to the other? My hope is that they are not normally plugged in (highly wishful thinking). If I have to find wherever it plugs in, I will definitely have to head to our physics department to get some help.

Anyway, thanks for whatever guidance you may have. Hope your experience with the controller(s) is successful.

Jeff

Well, It's been awhile since I posted here. After a four year hiatus, my R Martin EVD is back together. I created a cooling system for a controller using one inch clear aquarium tubing, a breather filter for a car's PCV system, some plastic inserts used for cables to go in and out of desks, some PVC elbows and a 12V cooling fan from Radio shack. Think I'll get a video together showing what I did if anyone is interested.

Since putting it together again, the temperatures have been quite cool so there have been no issues with the controller heating up. Oh, and it was converted to 72 volts a few years ago.

Would love to source some spares for this unit - like a working controller. I only have one key and need to work on finding a spare.

Anyone else driving these things around anymore? PM me at jeff [at] cfocolleague.net if you want a video of what I did.

Been enjoying the R Martin EVD . Top speed is a bit higher with the new batteries. I am getting 57 and over 60 down hills. Today, however, a ne issue cropped up. As is the case when the motor gets hot, the machine drops to 5 mph mode for no apparent reason. It happens after I have been running about a mile or so. It then limps along until it chugs a few times and regains its speed. Switching it off then on again works sometimes. Nothing feels hot. I'm thinking a sensor is malfunctioning somewhere.

The reality of these machines is that there are precious few parts to be had anywhere, they have an interesting but unique six phase approach to propulsion and they have the quality of a Chinese engineered and manufactured unit.

So, I'm looking for ideas. One thought has been to somehow disconnect the motor heat sensor. Also giving some thought to a Kelly controller / hub motor combination. Have seen a 72V/6kW controller with regen and a matching 13" hub motor, also rated for 6kW. Top end is potentially over 60 mph and regen is an interesting addition. Might even get me a little reverse action if I put on the brake and twist the throttle (brake switch activated). Problem is that it will set me back a grand. Added to new batteries, I'm staring at a recent download of $1,500 for this machine. Alas, had I done nothing, it wasn't worth much.

I thus may have two hub motors and a possible controller for sale. The controller would be somewhat unreliable but, if you're looking to cannibalize the circuit board components, you may find what you need there. All of it would go cheap to a good home. The shipping would not be cheap but at least it wouldn't be marked up. Other ideas are welcome as well.

deleted duplicate entry

Have seen a 72V/6kW controller with regen and a matching 13" hub motor, also rated for 6kW.

Careful with the 6kW Kelly: They only talk about ELECTRICAL power. With the motor it is always MECHANICAL power. So you must always size your Kelly taking into account controller and motor efficiency. Usually divide your motor power by 0.8 to find required Kelly power, which would be 7.5kW. So if you get yourself an 8kW Kelly with the right battery voltage rating your 6kW "Kelly" motor (it is actually a Quan Shun) can be fed suffciently ;-)

I picked up a motor and controller from what I think was this Rmartin EVD. Everything matches up to what is said here.

I am going to mount it on a different 2 wheeler. I understand the 3 wire plug is the hall throttle. And the plug coming out halfway on the harness is the kickstand safety. (open= kickstand up)

The other two plugs I was looking for confirmation of what they are. I am guessing the purple/orange wire is for a controller cutoff/brakelight? Purple goes to BRK on the controller.

Then does the other 2 wire plug (red/white) go to ignition (and so I need to short these to turn on controller?

And if you want to read more about this motor, I think it's the same 6 phase hub as JohnInCR sells as "Hubmonster" on endless-sphere, and was used on this build, among others: http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=41414
hillsofvalp used two Kelly controllers to drive it, with over 30kw from the battery.

I am thinking of putting this on a small motorcycle with my 75v Nissan Leaf cells. It sounds like there might a HVC that might not allow that voltage though.

I believe I have a wiring diagram at home for this. Traveling at the moment. Can look it over when I get home (Monday) and potentially scan it and send it to you.

That would be great, thanks!

Also, does anyone know if this stock controller can regen?

I am attaching a PDF of the wiring diagram for the EVD. I will also look up the wiring coloring schema from a previous post that Tim Williams provided in 2010.

And here is the promised repost of Mr. Williams post some time ago. This should provide the wiring information you need:
---------

I dug into the wiring and documented everything as best I could. When I uncovered the heavy gauge wire connections, I see several covered in a heavy plastic/fabric tube, but two of them are covered in cheap plastic tape that has worn through at the bolts connecting the lugs. I suspect these shorted out when I was twisting the bundle to get to the diagnostic LED connector. So anyway, I need a new controller. I am 90% sure I will order a KBS7121 from Kelly Controls. Here are my wiring observations:
BLC3000 Rev A controller for 6 Phase 3KW hub motor on EVD Scooter

Two identical PCBs

Thick gauge wires:
Thickest RED - Power +
Two black med gauge wires - Gnd

Phase wires - connected to motor windings: Color in controller matches color from motor.
PCB1:
Label Color
MA Green
MB Yellow
MC Blue

PCB2:
Label Color
MA Black
MB Red
MC White

Motor sensor wire connector pin numbering: (arbitrary)

Clip
1 2 3 4 5
6 7 8 9 10

Note: Connections labeled Gnd and 5VO on PCBs is reversed.

PCB Label Signal Color Connector Pin Color on opposite connector
1 GND 5V Red 5 Red
1 5VO Gnd Black 4 Black
1 HA Hall A1 Yellow 3 White
1 HB Hall B1 Blue 1 Purple
1 HC Hall C1 Green 2 Blue

2 GND 5V Red 10 Red
2 5VO Gnd Black 9 Black
2 HA Hall A2 Yellow 6 White
2 HB Hall B2 Blue 8 Purple
2 HC Hall C2 Green 7 Blue

To Bike controls:

Red KSI Battery power from Key switch Red
Purple BRK Brake signal (12V?) Purple

Red +5V Diagnostic LED + Red
White CZ Diagnostic LED - Green

Black Gnd Ground to Throttle Black
White IN Input from Throttle White
Red 5V +5V to Throttle Red

Other:
Motor over temp sensor output to brake light circuit (which also cuts off controller)

Black
Black/White

From the wiring schematic, I noticed the motor overtemp circuit ties in to the brake lights, so you should be able to tell if the motor is overheating by seeing if the brake lights are on when you are not using the brakes (or the kick-stand).

The Diagnostic table show that overheating will cause the LED to flash 2, then 3 times, but I don't see any way for the controller to know when the motor overheats, just when the controller overheats, so I would expect the LED to not flash when the motor is overheating.

Thanks for posting the diagram. However, it is not readable. Is there anything you can do to make it clearer? Thanks

My email is jeff(at)cfocolleague(dot)net Send me an email and I'll attach the file.

Thanks Spearo for sending me the file. I can read it now.

Maybe I am bad at reading electrical schematics, but I still don't understand how to turn on the controller. Shorting the purple(BRK) and red(KSI - listed as orange in the above post) does not turn it on.

My best guess at this moment is that I need to connect KSI to battery+ to turn controller on. And then BRK to battery+ to enact the brake cutoff.

I want to try this, but don't want to ruin the controller if I am wrong. Can someone confirm that battery+ is connecting to the key switch?

Looking at the schematic, it appears to have an error as the are connecting the cathode(+) to battery neg. So that is kind of screwing up being able to read it. Or.... they meant to write anode, not cathode. That would make a lot more sense.

Sometimes you just have to take a chance. And this time it worked. KSI (orange wire next to purple wire on 2 wire connector) goes to Battery + to turn the controller on. I'm guessing BRK connects to Batt+ when you pull in the brake as a cut off.

By the way, with batteries the naming of kathode and anode are prone to be reversed from the normal definition, probably due to their reversable nature (charging and discharging). Good to hear of your success!

Is this system designed for a hall throttle or 5k? I can't get my hall throttles to work, but my 5k Magura does, with one hickup - when I let off the throttle the motor jolts badly with a loud noise.

I'm going to try more hall throttles because I read in another thread the input is 0-5v.

The no-load current is amazingly low on this motor though! I was reading 1 to 2 amps at about half speed.

I have it mounted on the back of a Ninja 250, eager to test ride it, but no brakes working yet.

I am told that a hall throttle is used on this scooter.

Now I hooked up an led to the diagnostic plug and can see I am getting an error code with my hall throttle connected. It is 3 very quick flashes, short pause and repeats.

Does anyone know what that means?