Vectrix (2008 VX-1) Won't Turn Off

I have connected the PCAN tool and runt he Scooter Diagnostics app. The only thing I can see adrift is that there is a 'tick' in the 'CANbus' box on the main 'Summary' tab under 'Faults'.

The only other obvious sign of the issue is that on the same Scooter Diagnostics app tab, if I click on 'Show Instrument' only some of the virtual instruments work correctly.

Can anyone advise how to get anything more on this, ie which part of the CANbus system is not working correctly?

Thanks, Alan,

Although disconnected from the pack (as the pack is now LiFePO4 - but not a Vectrix one) I have all the temp sense PCBs bundled up still connected to the bike. I was under the impression that they were still needed for anything to work. I will try removing them to see if it helps. It is worth mentoning that the temp sense PCBs have been as they are since I upgraded the pack ~6 years and ~10kmiles ago... but maybe the damp has got to them at least.

I don't appear to have the latest Diagnostics softwre either. My version is 2.1. I gather the version available from vectrixparts is 3.something... I shall have ago with installing it on my venerable Atom-based laptop.

If you know of anyone I could approach re persuing the CANbus side of things. I'd be interested to hear but I'll try Matteo.

Regards, Martin

I downloaded the latest Diagnostic App from Vectrix parts the afternoon and tried it on the bike but it did not sow anything new.

I tried disconnecting the temp sense PCBs at the connector and reconnected the pack battery. No change.

I tried disconnecting the battery charger via the controller plug bottom left as you look from the front of the bike. No difference.

The throttle responded normally in the DataSummary tab and the Can Bus Fault box there was still ticked.

I ran the Diagnostics app 'Fuel Gauge Test' under the 'CAN Bus Test' tab which responded normally (apparently... The fuel gauge levels on the bike went up and down in time with the test one on the laptop).

Under the 'Dashboard' tab, the virtual dash seemed to work better than before and I could, for example, set the bike's time via the laptop.

Any other ideas? I'm going to reflash the ICM tomorrow.

Hi Alan,

Thanks.

I have had the pack disconnected for over a year and always disconnect and reconnect (via a light bulb ICL) before tinkering with the wiring.

I have the manual and have seen that schematic before ... and it doesn't figure with me either, unless the charger, when connected to the mains, reproduces the effect of the ignition key in the 'on' position, ie turning on the bike/dash/ICM etc so that the charger's info can be displayed...? If so, it would support the theory that the charger is causing the issue... except that the ignition key still commands the bike to a 'run' state, enabling the usual double activation of the brake levers to get the 'Ready' displayed in the left dial (and it will then power the back wheel in a 'normal' way, turn on the headlight etc).

I did try disconnecting the charger from the motor controller but only the power connector, not the data. I'll take the fairing off and do that before I try re-flashing the ICM.

I had forgotten about Vectrixparts' videos. Something else to occupy my time during lockdown!

Regards, Martin.

So, today I tried:

Disconnecting both the battery connector and data connector from my Runke charger (which replaced the original ESD one at about 10k miles/6 years ago) which made precisely zero difference. Still turns on as soon as I connect the battery.

With battery disconnected, I removed the DC/DC converter connector on the controller (top right) and confirmed that the ignition switch gives no continuity between Pin 12 (ign+) and 4 Ign-) with the switch off and full continuity (1R) when on.

Disconnected the battery again, then disconnected the ICM and reconnected the battery and nothing much happens (as you might expect!), no ancillary electrics (horn, turn signals, headlight etc and no motive power either) but the storage box LED works - implying the DC/DC converter is working and on... I can't remember if this is normal or not? Should this light work if the bike is off? The PEAK CAN cable did not work either... also not a surprise.

Thinking that my issues may be sue to a low system voltage (due to removing the 5 3.2V LiFePO4 cells that I managed to ruin) of 120V. I tried disconnecting the battery and connecting the bike's battery leads to a 150V 3A bench power supply, set to 135V. Still no difference, bike comes on as soon as power is applied irrespective of the position of the ignition switch (ie exactly as when powered by the battery).

So, the question is, where is the bike getting its command to turn on without the ignition switch being on?

MW

Hi Alan,

Thanks for the input.

I would agree but rather than the MC it could be just the DC/DC converter (which is, as I'm sure you know, part of the MC PCB). I'm wondering if some muck has got onto the PCB and is causing a minor short somewhere that is commanding the DC/DC converter to turn on?

I will try a continuity check on the CANbus network later today. I assume that if I disconnect all the relevant connectors bar the ICM's one and attach one probe of my multimeter (set to continuity mode) to one side of the CANbus circuit (say, CANH) on any one of the other connectors then all the other CANH connector pins will show continuity (passing through the ICM’s CANbus … bus)? Then do the same to CANL?

It appears I do not have Mateo’s correct email address as my email to him bounced.

I have Dugas’ firmware (from 2015 following my upgrade from the original Ni pack to 42 x 40Ah Sinopoly cells, 6 of which have subsequently failed and been by-passed/removed) and a Runke charger (bought and DIY-installed from EmmisionsFree in 2017). I emailed Mr Dugas this morning through his website.

Yes, it seems Vectrix preferred the auto-industry’s rather pants method of repair ie replace stuff with new until the fault goes away. Hardly very scientific - but simple… and the customer will pay anyway, so who cares?(!)

I would like to think that, with the right bit of software, I could ‘sniff’ the CANbus network and establish what the CANbus error is and where it is originating. It’s a bit out of my experience but something that I would like to get to grips with, both for the sake of my Vectrix as well as many other EV-related projects I have on the go and planned. So, if you have any ideas, I’m all ears!

Earlier, I tried disconnecting the LED-converted headlight (just in case) and that made no difference.

I also did the same with the dash disconnected and again no difference but interesting (if not surprisingly) - with ignition switch on - the bike ran (as in the motor would turn the rear wheel), lights, horn etc worked as before. Still showing an intermittent 'CANbus' in the dash and occasional yellow spanner dash light.

I also took the following 2 screen shots, one with the ignition on and the other with it off…

Regards, Martin.

Hi Alan,

Thanks. The Charger Voltage (under Charger Status) is showing 118V which is accurate for the battery voltage.I don't think the Bus Voltage (under Motor Control Status is showing the battery volts but what the nominal system voltage is. Clearly I need to change that if possible.

The only other difference in the 2 screenshots is the the 'VPE' window under Motor Control Status is red in one and green in the other ... and I can't remember which screenshot was with the ignition switch in the on position! I'm guessing the first window is ignition 'on' and the second 'off'.

Mr Dugas has been in touch. More later.

I have checked all the CANbus network for continuity and it all appears good.

I'll try Matteo again.

(For the benefit of anyone else...) I have been struggling to get the PCANUSB dongle working with the most convenient Windows XP Pro PC I have that is in my garage (I'm using a laptop at the moment). This was due to the drivers not being correct (as usual). Reinstalling the VectrixParts Diagnostic App direct from their site did not help. In the end I found that the PEAK PCANUSB driver installer for Windows 2000 (https://www.peak-system.com/PCAN-USB.199.0.html?&L=1 click on 'Downloads' ... at the bottom) worked. Once I ran the driver installer app and plugged in the PCANUSB dongle, the usual Windows 'new device' driver config window popped up. Using the 'Install Automatically' option and pointing the app to the newly created drivers directory loaded up the drivers fine. Then the Diagnostics App fired up correctly and the LED on the PCANUSB dongle lit up, flashing slowly (it flashes faster if connected to the bike as per normal).

Regards, Martin.

An update; At the suggestion of David Dugas, I tried the bike with the 12-way MC connector unplugged and it does not turn itself on. Awaiting a reply from David as to what to try next.

An update. So, the latest is that it appears there is a minor fault with the MC PCB. My justification for this is that with *all* connections to the MC PCB removed (bar the motor phase wires... and the battery, obviously), the MC still powers up ie there is 12VDC between Pins 2 & 3 on J22 (12-way, top right). Apparently, there is a sort of feedback circuit on the MC PCB where one section monitors another for signs of the ignition switch being turned off. When it sees this, there is a timed delay to allow the MC to shut down and then the monitoring circuit is also supposed to shut down but this is not happening.

So, I am either going to have to buy a new/used PCB or sending this one off to VectrixParts (VP) for repair. However, I have, as yet, been unable to get any response from VP, either by raising a service ticket on their website (2, in fact) or by emailing Matteo directly.

One other thing I am minded to try is to reinstall the MC firmware. Unfortunately, the old PC the files were stored on has long since died. It had revision 1024 if anyone has a copy I'd be glad to hear from you. Alternatively, if the one on VP's site will work then I'll try that but it is for the official Vectrix lithium version whereas my bike was originally a NiM H one... (I can't remember the details now as it was 2015 when I upgraded to a Sinopoly Li battery pack).

I have now extracted the motor controller PCB and sent it off to Matteo in Rome for repair.