Vectric official service and warranty policy?

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Todd
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Vectric official service and warranty policy?

Hi all,

Having some issues with my bike I called Vectrix several times last year. The last time a very nice lady put me in touch with a tech names Matt Hair. Matt was very informative about the issues with my V and suggested I try several things. He also told me that he would come by when he was down this way and run test on my bike to determine if the battery was going bad or just needed some equalization.

Unfortunately I never heard from him again. I assume they are very busy and I have emailed him twice with no response. One of the things that he told me to my dismay was that the ONLY warranty available was to people that files claims before the bankruptcy. That any problems with the Vectrix that developed after the bankruptcy were not covered by the new Vectrix. I was surprised but figured he knew what he is talking about. However in reading on the forum it seems some people have gotten warranty parts and work since.

Before I call them back again I was wondering if someone had a definitive understanding of the warranty on parts and service as it stands with our bikes and the new Vectrix company.

Thanks,

Todd

HarryS
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Re: Vectric official service and warranty policy?

Todd,
Matt Hair is one of the nicest guys on the planet. He travels the county on a pickup truck with Vectrix parts. He knows his stuff for sure. I have a 2008 Vectrix that had a failing battery. I contacted Vectrix in the Spring of last year and reported the problem. In September, Matt came by my house and exchanged the battery for a new one. It took two trips, spaced about a month apart because on the first attempt the controller would not take the software update so I needed to have the logic flashed.
Anyway, when Matt left on his second visit, he left me with three baseball caps (2 from Vectrix and one from the gamecocks, his team) a key chains and a Vectrix t shirt. The man knew what he was doing and was able to fix my problem.
I suggest you contact him again and give him the benefit of doubt.
Best
Harry

marcopolo
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Re: Vectric official service and warranty policy?

Matt Hair is one of the nicest guys on the planet. He travels the county on a pickup truck with Vectrix parts. He knows his stuff for sure. I have a 2008 Vectrix that had a failing battery. I contacted Vectrix in the Spring of last year and reported the problem. In September, Matt came by my house and exchanged the battery for a new one. It took two trips, spaced about a month apart because on the first attempt the controller would not take the software update so I needed to have the logic flashed.
Anyway, when Matt left on his second visit, he left me with three baseball caps (2 from Vectrix and one from the gamecocks, his team) a key chains and a Vectrix t shirt. The man knew what he was doing and was able to fix my problem.I suggest you contact him again and give him the benefit of doubt. Harry

You're kidding right? The roving Vectrix repair-guy? Wow, even baseball caps, and a T Shirt!

With all due respect to ol' Matt, (I'm not saying he's not a nice guy, he's probably really sincere), this is what's wrong with the whole Vectrix dynamic!

Because the original Vectrix started in the heroic pioneer days of EV development, it developed into a sort of social club rather than a consumer business.

Can you imagine the uproar if Honda relied upon one good ole boy, in a pick truck, to provide its service warranty obligations? Incredible!

Todd, the simple answer is, you have no warranty! All Vectrix warranties were extinguished by the chapter 11, buyout and the approved warranty claim fund.

The new Vectrix has no obligation to repair your VX1. So any service you receive from Matt Hair should be gratefully received, and hope that Gold Peak will sustain services for a while longer.

marcopolo

oobflyer
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Re: Vectric official service and warranty policy?

If Matt is the one I heard about - he had to have some kind of surgery last summer, maybe he's been ill? Dana DeCosta, who usually covers the east half of the U.S., came to California from the east coast to help me with a problem I had last summer (free; no charge, no warranty).

When I first called for help I left several messages on the service voice-mail recorder, but never got a response. When I selected the other option to talk an operator, I reached a lady named Morelia, who gave my number to Dana. Dana called me back and told me that he was making a run to the west coast to work on some Vectrixes and would stop by my place. Sure enough, a couple of weeks later he was at my house and had my bike up and running in no time.

The number I called was 508-717-6510, ask for the operator.

Meanwhile, I'm having another problem right now - I contacted Dana by email (DDeCosta [at] Vectrix.com) and he answered right away, saying that he would be making another run to the west coast after the first of the year. I haven't heard anything since then, but it's only been a few weeks; I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt - I'm sure he's busy. Maybe he'll have Matt come out this time - who knows?

If I don't hear anything from Dana soon, I'll try to call him again and post again - let us know if you get a hold of anyone!

marcopolo
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Re: Vectric official service and warranty policy?

Dana called me back and told me that he was making a run to the west coast to work on some Vectrixes and would stop by my place. Sure enough, a couple of weeks later he was at my house and had my bike up and running in no time. Meanwhile, I'm having another problem right now - Dana saying that he would be making another run to the west coast after the first of the year. I haven't heard anything since then, but it's only been a few weeks; . Maybe he'll have Matt come out this time - who knows? If I don't hear anything from Dana soon, I'll try to call him again and post again - let us know if you get a hold of anyone!

Dang, that's good service!! Only a few weeks! Yeah, I know, it's easy to make fun of such a pathetic service. Actually very good that at least a couple of dedicated guys care enough to accept such a position. But what can't be overlooked is the telltale signs that if Gold Peak were actually serious about reviving Vectrix they could simply re-accredit the old service netwo... oh that's right Vectrix, didn't actually have one!

OK, so same old problem! It's logistically unprofitable to conduct an in-home service, unless you can accredit one of the existing automotive mobile networks. Not really practical, since most operatives are mechanics, not auto-electricians.

Dana and Matt, are undoubtedly sincere, but Gold Peak, who own and call the ultimate shots at Vectrix, are obviously not serious about keeping the VX1 in production.

If Gold Peak were serious, they would have mounted a PR/Publicity campaign, including regular postings on by the Vectrix President on forums and the Vectrix Website. They would also sponsor a VX1 owners association, etc etc....Inviting owners participation would be invaluable, especially owners like Mik, with a wealth of knowledge.

But in the end why would GP bother? The VX1 is redundant and the badge engineered products with have a different method of distribution and service.

marcopolo

yamez4u
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Re: Vectric official service and warranty policy?

Marcopolo I have to wonder why you even bother read or replying to this forum, You seem to not only hate Vectrix, but electric transport in general. Could you not spend your time doing something more productive?

Todd
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Re: Vectric official service and warranty policy?

When I spoke with Matt, I think it was Nov, he was newly rehired at Vectrix. He had been with Vectrix previously and was just hired back to do support with the new company.

He was in the middle of moving his daughter up from another state but took time to talk with me for quite a while and gave me some pointers and things to try( I have been getting the disappearing bars syndrome and it has been getting progressively worse ) Matt was friendly and genuinely interested in helping me get the bike back to good health. We talked until all my questions were answered. He had other bikes in Texas to service and said he would come by Houston and run some diagnostics but thought my battery was probably good just needed equalization. Frankly I would like to know either way. With the company in transition I was grateful to know that there were some official company resources available. I did not expect him to pop down to Texas right away but I thought I would have heard something back from my emails by now. Since I read others had gotten assistance I was wondering if it was official warranty work or Vectrix restoring some good will.

Todd

marcopolo
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Re: Vectric official service and warranty policy?

Marcopolo I have to wonder why you even bother read or replying to this forum, You seem to not only hate Vectrix, but electric transport in general. Could you not spend your time doing something more productive?

Either you have only read this thread, and none of my other 600 odd posts, just obtusely offencive, or Mike Boyle's buddy.

On the basis that you have only read this thread, I shall try clarify your misconceptions!

I don't hate Electric vehicles. For the last twenty-five years I have been a very vocal exponent of both biodiesel and EV transport in many forms. More importantly, I have also been an investor/lobbyist.

I own and operate over 70 electric vehicles of different types, including 18 VX1's. I was also an investor/shareholder in the Original Vectrix. Despite the corporate faults and product defects, I am still very fond of the VX1.

Because I spend a large part of my year in Australia, I am fortunate to be able to own and operate, not one, but two, models of the first mass-production, freeway legal, plug-in electric saloon-cars, (Blade Electron). This excellent little EV is sold with a nation-wide 5 year warranty, at over 160 service centres, backed by its joint venture partner, Hyundai. I have contributed many posts praising the virtues of this little car.

I have also paid tribute to the pioneering efforts of Smith Electric Vehicles of UK, William Clay Ford,etc as well as the less well known, Jacobsen's, John of CoMoCo, and countless others. (even the eccentric Mountain Chen).

I was, like many others, hopeful that Vectrix would prove successful. I do not hate Vectrix. I was very angry at the selfish, egotistical, incompetent mismanagement by Mike Boyle, and his cronies. In fact I am currently involved in litigation against these looters of shareholders funds. But that's a separate issue.

I have immense respect for Dr Wolfgang Gohl, and regard his departure from Vectrix Mk2 as an ominous sign. I don't blame Gold Peak for trying to do the best commercial deal they can, that's responsible business.

Where we differ, is that I believe the heroic days of Electric Vehicles, when the only people who extolled the virtues of the EV were either visionaries or hobbyists, are past. EV manufacture has now entered the mainstream. Massive capital investment from major automakers, has rendered the 'true believer' and hobbyist redundant.

EV production and development is now a business, not a hobby! There is no longer room for heroic failure, poor production, and quality defects. Like ICE autos, EV's will retain a fringe of customisers, enthusiasts and hobbyists, but essentially, today's Ev maker must compete to the same standards of quality and business practise as we have come to expect from all major manufacturers.

The VX1 couldn't sell enough to be viable, no crime, but putting your head in the sand won't change that fact. Many beloved Marques disappear, to the anguish of enthusiasts. Quite correctly, Vectrix mk2's Asian owner, Gold Peak, will not support an unprofitable product, no matter how nice or idealistic the US employees maybe.

When the Vectrix Mark 1 directors were still spending like drunken sailors and announcing vast new expansion plans, I predicted that Vectrix was insolvent and would be bankrupt within the year. The howls of insane, indignant protest and posts (far more inaccurate and rabid than yours), didn't alter the fact that all the denials and passionate posturing were pointless. Vectrix collapsed, and with it evaporated over $800 million of other people money!

I am neither an engineer or tinkerer/hobbyist. I report on EV business analysis. It's not my duty to comment positively, but inaccurately, in the hope of not hurting some employees feelings, just because the Business is EV. My only obligation is to be accurate.

If you find any inaccuracy, in either my facts or my analysis, please feel free to enter the debate and contribute your point view, just contributing petulant personal abuse is pointless.

But as I say, maybe you are only judging me from this thread, so I hope the above may provide a you with a different perspective.

Since I read others had gotten assistance I was wondering if it was official warranty work or Vectrix restoring some good will

Todd, I would imagine that many of the US Vectrix employee's are motivated by a really strong desire to see Vectrix mark 2 succeed, and so they are going the extra mile. Very commendable. Only time will tell if these efforts are sufficient to convince GP of vectrix viability. The bankruptcy warranty claim fund has been closed for months.

marcopolo

Mik
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Re: Vectric official service and warranty policy?

So what is happening with the European remnants of Vectrix?

Is the factory in Poland under GP control or independent?

This information may be used entirely at your own risk.

There is always a way if there is no other way!

marcopolo
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Re: Vectric official service and warranty policy?

So what is happening with the European remnants of Vectrix? Is the factory in Poland under GP control or independent?

Hi Mik, I'm not sure what is happening in Poland. The Polish factory was part of the deal with Wolfgang Gohl. I should imagine that without him, the factory is surplus to needs.

I am visiting Europe after Korea later this month,I will try to visit Dr Gohl and try to ascertain the status of the Polish connection.

How are you doing in Queensland? Have you been affected by the floods personally?

marcopolo

Mik
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Re: Vectric official service and warranty policy?

...
...
How are you doing in Queensland? Have you been affected by the floods personally?

No, just minor problems. I'm high and dry. Wind and fire are my biggest worries...

This information may be used entirely at your own risk.

There is always a way if there is no other way!

israndy
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Re: Vectric official service and warranty policy?

You guys have heard my complaints about Dana not coming out my way for months now. I send him photos of my telltale lights and of my battery as it drops from half to empty while driving. He has said several times he would be right out or contact me after the weekend but It's gonna be half a year soon... At least I can still crawl to work and back so I am not paying gas prices, but I miss flying in on the freeway and I would love to go 68 mph...

-Randy

______________________
I also own a 2018 Tesla Model 3 and a 2012 Mitsubishi iMiev

R
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Re: Vectric official service and warranty policy?

I'm curious, what voltage do you read when the red battery light appears on the dashboard?

Todd
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Re: Vectric official service and warranty policy?

Randy,

I have emailed Matt several times and not heard back from him. Never heard a thing since our conversation last year. Sounds like Vectrix service dept is MIA. I was hoping he would make it out here but guess that's not going to happen. I will call Vectrix this week and see what comes of it.

Todd

marcopolo
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Re: Vectric official service and warranty policy?

I have emailed Matt several times and not heard back from him. Never heard a thing since our conversation last year. Sounds like Vectrix service dept is MIA.

Todd, I'm afraid this sort of response is symptomatic of a company realising the logistical problems, and lack of resources to fund solutions. GP owned Vectrix was never going to be able to maintain the original Vectrix service plan. I would imagine they were hoping to establish a dealer-based service network in conjunction with E-Max( or any other large PRC maker).

Before James (yamez4u), gets all upset again and accuses me of Vectrix hating, I would point out that even if Matt had finally got back to you and fixed the problem after six months of waiting, would you really recommend the purchase of an expensive product, with such a poor service record?

Would you say that the parent company was really serious about restoring Vectrix in the market-place as a US manufacturer, if this is the way they treat service enquiries?

It's not about hating Vectrix! It's about any manufacturers obligation to maintain reasonable service facilities.

marcopolo

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Re: Vectric official service and warranty policy?

I called Escini to investigate my battery problem. They are willing to visit me, but now they charge around 65 euro for a visit. And my bike is still under warranty.
It seems that the old service model is changing here too.

Once you go EV, Gas is history!

Todd
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Re: Vectric official service and warranty policy?

Marco.

You have a better overall understanding of Vectrix than a lot here. Don't fault me for trying to be optimistic though. I don't see that many USA V's here on the forum. I looked on the tread about where is everyone located, on the map posted and there are not that many listed in the USA. Especialy for two guys to cover. Even if they only fixed 2 a week each, that's 16 a month. I cant imagine there being more than 250 Vs in the US. So what am I missing. If they have 2 service techs on staff what are they doing???

Anyone know about how many Vectrix were actually sold in the US? To end users I mean, not just parked in dealerships.

Todd

marcopolo
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Re: Vectric official service and warranty policy?

Don't fault me for trying to be optimistic. I don't see that many USA V's here on the forum. I looked on the tread about where is everyone located, on the map posted and there are not that many listed in the USA. Especialy for two guys to cover. Even if they only fixed 2 a week each, that's 16 a month. I cant imagine there being more than 250 Vs in the US. So what am I missing. If they have 2 service techs on staff what are they doing??? Anyone know about how many Vectrix were actually sold in the US? To end users I mean, not just parked in dealerships.

Todd, I certainly don't fault you for being optimistic! But I just want to spare you the pain of being unrealistic. Some Vectrix fans have really weird expectations and beliefs about what is really just a commercial consumer product.

In the entire production of the old Vectrix marque, less than 2000 VX1 unit were made. The corporate documents fled for the purpose of bankruptcy relate approximately 28% were either made, or earmarked for the US market.

Vectrix was so badly organised that many of these records are inaccurate and disputed. However assuming that those figures are approximately correct then its reasonable to assume that you figure of 250 or so so could be roughly correct. Researching the DMV figures in each state would reveal the accuracy of registered US Vectrix.

Given the wide dispersal of units, the cost of maintaining personal service by two guys in service vehicles on an annual basis, would be in excess of $600,000!

Can you imagine Gold Peak funding that sort of expenditure?

Currently, guys like Matt, are probably operating on a shoestring and sacrificing themselves for idealistic or future promises, but as GP cynically understands, that only lasts for a short period. Vectrix USA's, non-GP stakeholders may still believe in idealism, but in Europe GP is showing business sense by abandoning the old concept and charging for service.

When I contemplated buying Vectrix, a major deterrent was the servicing dynamic. It's simply not possible to service on such a vast scale without an established partner with an existing extensive network of dealers.

I still believe that the Vectrix VX1 should have been produced with a propane(or similar) fuelled auxiliary motor to charge the battery and act as a range extender(a'la Volt). This was exactly what the market demanded. Instead, Vectrix listened to the the idealists, resulting in a product that catered to a market that didn't exist. Very few idealistic, greenie, EV enthusiasts were prepared to pay the sort of money that the VX1 needed to sustain production.

After the initial launch excitement(and fuel spike)receded, Vectrix was left with virtually no buyers. Sales slowed to a trickle. Certainly nothing like the 35,000 units per year Vectrix need to survive.

The lesson was there to be learnt by observing the success of Prius/Lexus. Sadly,Vectrix was operating in a vacuum of realism. GP is hopeful that a hookup with some PRC manufacturer like E-Max, may prove financial successful to reach the limited objectives of loss recovery. E-Max is a completely PRC product, it may have some design origins in Europe, but so what? A Vectrix, it's not!.

Most of the contributors to V is for Voltage, are not in the demographic for a high end product like Vectrix. The Market demographic that Vectrix should have been chasing, were the same people who bought Prius, Lexus etc. This market required a product that spoke to a certain lifestyle, part new technology, part fashion statement, but all quality and user friendly reliability! This market includes fleet,up-market Hire, leasing, resort, government subsidised, inner suburban transport for the hip/chic yuppie and ageing cool guys. Sales targets such as the computer savvy, fashion conscious, (especially the Gay community)overseas/education Asian/European students etc, these were natural sales targets for the VX1. Marketing to these segments would have been more economical since these niche markets have extensive and efficient networks in which to target sales material more effectively than mass media.

A dealer network should have been established either in conjunction with another major manufacturer, BMW etc or utilised the Piaggio connection. Failing that, the VX1 could have been marketed through computer outlets and serviced by its ICE component suppliers.

Sure, a small market existed for other Vectrix buyers outside of these demographics! That's proved by the 12-1400 sold. But not enough of this market existed to make vectrix financially viable.

I know John at CoMoCo will disagree with me when I say that the only successful up-market freeway capable, two-wheel EV will be equipped with a range extender.

I hope he proves me wrong!

But, I have digressed a little off topic, I sincerely wish you the best of luck in finding servicing. In the meantime, until CoMoCo reaches the heights of success I'm sure they will achieve, maybe CoMoCo may consider a sideline in Vectrix VX1 servicing?

marcopolo

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Re: Vectric official service and warranty policy?

Marcopolo I disagree with you greatly on most of your points above. As with most of your posts I wonder why you ever bought a Vectrix in the first place, you just don't seem to get what makes them great. First there was nothing that extreme about the Vectrix pricing. quite a few companies make good money selling hi-tech scooters: Piaggio MP3, Yamaha T-Max, Honda Silverwing, are all in the general price range of the Vectrix, and the Vectrix compares very favorably on many factors. Why Vectrix failed is they simply did not listen to what there customers wanted. I sat on the fence for two years before buying a Vectrix, each year waiting for them to make a Lithium model, I did not and still do not mind spending good money on a hi-end scooter, but if I do it needs to be hi-end, and that was never NiMH. You could make the Scooter with the best parts in the world but it simply did not matter if the most important part was second best. Many people where like me. Watching Vectrix year after year, writing them year after year, asking them when they would have a Lithium model. And year after year they did not make what we wanted. Worst when they finally did announce a new model it was a cheap lead acid version, I knew right then, the company had no future at all. Most of there potential customer where simply waiting on the bike they really wanted, the bike Vectrix never made. They would have had three year with the market to themselves The only game in town selling a hot seller. If it had just been Lithium. Brammo is going to sell a crap load of thirteen thousand dollar bikes, because they listened to there customers, Like Vectrix, Brammo's first product was technically impressive but not quite what there potential customers wanted, they got asked over and over are you going to make a bigger bike with better range and they listened and built it. It will be a success. And Vectrix could have been a success as well, if they simply would have made the VX-1Li (80mile of range!) the second year they where in business instead of the year after they died, they would have made it.

As for the Volt, My money is on the Leaf, once both companies ramp up to meet demand, I have no doubt the Leaf will take the sales lead.

marcopolo
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Re: Vectric official service and warranty policy?

As with most of your posts I wonder why you ever bought a Vectrix in the first place, you just don't seem to get what makes them great.

You just enjoy bating me don't you? C'mon, you can't actually be that obtuse! I answered your questions fairly comprehensively first time 'round.

But, what the hell, I'll bite! Don't you read what you write? If I don't get what makes Vectrix 'great', (and I presume you do!) then why the hell did you "Sit on the fence for two years" waiting for an event that never happened! Oh, and along the way you decided " the company had no future at all!!"

Mind-bogglingly inconsistent? That's nothing in comparison to your next statement.

First there was nothing that extreme about the Vectrix pricing. quite a few companies make good money selling hi-tech scooters: Piaggio MP3, Yamaha T-Max, Honda Silverwing, are all in the general price range of the Vectrix, and the Vectrix compares very favourably on many factors.

Firstly, you make no allowance for purchasers outside the US in your pricing comparison. Secondly, in what possible way could a Vectrix, with unknown technology, a range of 60 to eighty klms, speed of 80-100 kmh (max) no service, no resale value, compare to a Honda Silverwing(with a first class, world-wide service network?)

If that sort of logic is baffling, the explanation may be found in the fact that although I own TWENTY-TWO Vectrix VX1's, you on the other hand " bought the bike Vectrix never made" !!!! (although, I presume,in reality, you bought the bike they did make, but shouldn't have?!)

As for the rest of your peculiar analysis, you don't get it do you? Vectrix needed to sell 34,000 units per year to survive. It needed, and still does, a logistically feasible servicing facility. Even more importantly, it needed customers, real customers, not imaginary arm-chair experts like you.

Vectrix failed for many reasons, poor management, poor component choices, market resistance, etc.. but basically, just not enough people wanted one to make it viable. Even with the best (at the time very expensive) lithium battery, Vectrix could never have sold 34,000 units per year. It sold less than 1600 in its entire history!

This is reality, not the weird fantasy land you inhabit. Annoying me for being accurate, will not change reality.

As for the Volt, My money is on the Leaf, once both companies ramp up to meet demand, I have no doubt the Leaf will take the sales lead.

You are entitled to your belief. For all I know, you may be right, the Leaf may prove popular. I don't believe it will outsell the Volt (except possibly in subsidised California).

For the last two years, I have owned, and driven, a fully functioning, production BEV, very similar to the Leaf. I have driven both the Leaf and the Volt. IMO, both cars have pluses and minuses. Both are superior to the iMev. I like the Leaf, but I would much prefer to market the more practical Volt. Citizens of the USA should be very proud of the GM Volt and Ford EV range.

The real competing will be when Ford and Peugeot enter the EV car market. The Peugeot has a PIEV/diesel configuration, which if run on biodiesel, addresses many drawbacks in relation to energy production and environmental issues.

Do me a favour, before issuing personal attacks, think about the logic of your own thoughts, rather than just venting your perceived prejudice. (nor will it get poor old Todd's VX1 repaired, a fact you seem to overlook in your Great Vectrix world).

marcopolo

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Re: Vectric official service and warranty policy?

I don't enjoy bating you, I am just tired of your completely redundant rant, You posted the same complete driveling rant multiply time on multiply unrelated threads. We have all heard it. So you lost a boat load of money on Vectrix, your lose get over it. Thats what happens when you speculate. Some time you buy into Google on the ground floor, some times you don't. Vectrix was not the best run company it went under. But your inane rant that they could never have sold 34,000 scooters in a year is a farce. There was nothing wrong with there model, it was there execution that was lacking. Piaggio made it on exactly the same model of high quality mostly niche product. And they like most companies started small just like Vectrix. Vectrix made a great product. There failing was not moving to lithium fast enough. Brammo is a very similar company in many ways, but unlike Vectrix they listened to there customers. And they will most likely make it with the very same model you keep harping about as flawed and broken.

The reason I and most of there potential customers waited to buy a Vectrix or never bought one was we where all sure they where going to make a better lithium product. So why buy the current model. There is nothing "inconsistent" about it. That still does not change the fact that the Vectrix is a great bike. And once I saw that there where never going to make the bike I wanted, I settled and got the bike they made. And have been very happy with it, even with its lack luster range. But if they had made what everyone was waiting for, they very well could have sold 10,000 scooters in there second year.

And there is nothing "baffling" about my logic. New companies competing with existing companies, can and do sometimes succeed. With your logic only the first company to ever make a new product would ever succeeded. Sure Honda has a great network and great resale value, that does not stop new scooter companies from coming into being and doing well. Genuine Scooters and Kymco being two examples. They both started with no network and no known resale value. They both made it big.

I hate to beat a dead horse but Brammo is everything you say can't work. No Network, no known resale value and looking to enter high volume sales, making a cutting edge product, with a top of its class price. They are the mirror image of what Vectrix was, just better executed. Tesla being another example.

As for your "purchasers outside the US" comment I don't even know where you where trying to go with it. Europe is an even bigger market then the US with even better incentives to buy electric (higher gas prices!), And europeans are known to snap up odd expensive scooters, Think Piaggio MP3.

And lastly Lithium batteries where available Vectrix's second year and with not that much price difference from the batteries they where buying. As a matter of fact China was begging for customers for there prismatic cells that year. There was simply no excuse not to have moved to lithium in 2008. But I guess we can just agree to disagree on that along with about everything else.

marcopolo
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Re: Vectric official service and warranty policy?

yamez4u, You really are one angry little man, aren't you! Do you imagine that if you increase level of indignant abuse, it gives your argument greater credibility?

I'll try one last time to explain some accurate facts to you;

Genuine Scooters is an ICE scooter dealership. Not a manufacturer!
Kymco is a long established (1958) Taiwanese manufacturer of ICE products, including scooters, farm bikes, ATV's, and other agricultural items. Kymco do not produce EV transport.
Brammo is neither a scooter manufacturer nor a high volume producer. The Brammo product is styled for appeal to Motor-cycle riders. (no step through).

None of these are relevent comparisions to Vectrix.

Brammo has a much better business model than Vectrix, but Craig Bramscher would be horrified to be cast in the same market sector as Vectrix. Craig's backing is largely private funding, (interestingly a major investor,Alpine, is an oil and gas producer) and although Brammo as a business, does not make a profit, his investors are content with the growth of his technology. In contrast, Vectrix sought funds from the public via the stock-market with dividend projections and inaccurate financial information.

Vectrix and Brammo have only one thing in common, they both employ EV technology.(and in the early days appealed to the same enthusiasts). None of the above comparisons have anything in common with Vectrix. Apart from GP, Vectrix had no 'partners'. Graig's product is a model of component sourcing. The relationship with Flextronics, Geek Squad and Best Buy is inspired marketing and organisation.

Vectrix was always conceived as a mass selling, 34,000 unit per year minimum consumer, commuter transport. Hence the scooter configuration and Polish assembly line. Even with lithium batteries they couldn't have sold 10,000 pa. Lithium would not have made 10x more sales, just pushed up the price even further.

The assertion that it's obvious Lithium would have sold 10,000 more units pa, is just silly! If that were the case, the offers to purchse Vectrix would not have come down to under $5 million.

Customers bought Vectrix, based of a guarantee of warranty service. You might be content with your purchase, but at least 70% were very unhappy at how they were treated, (read Mik's posts). Remember, most of the VX1 units were sold to enthusiasts. Imagine the howls if more units had been sold to normal consumers.

Poor old Todd is still waiting for his bike to be serviced. You've got some nerve telling people like Todd to just 'get over it' and not criticise Vectrix!

As for your "purchasers outside the US" comment I don't even know where you where trying to go with it.

Of course you don't! You evidently lack experience of international trade. Vectrix was sold to distributors, in US dollars! In 2007-8, the US dollar was very strong against the Euro, pound and other currencies, pushing up the cost of a Vectrix by as much as 30-45%. Although the bike was largely produced in Poland, Vectrix distributorship contracts were defined in US dollars. This issue is highlighted in the VCorp v VAus litigation. The difference the 32% currency difference created a 52% percent increase in the retail price.(approx $Aus17999+ reg, and on road expences). $3000 more than a new small car, in a nation with the second cheapest petrol in the developed world! (the biggest Vespa was $5999).

and lastly Lithium batteries where available Vectrix's second year and with not that much price difference from the batteries they where buying. As a matter of fact China was begging for customers for there prismatic cells that year. There was simply no excuse not to have moved to lithium in 2008.

Once again you denounce others, without any actual knowledge! Vectrix did not 'buy', batteries from Gold Peak, the battery supply was on credit secured against Vectrix shares. Vectrix was not contractual free to choose a different battery supplier.

Let's face it, all you seem to know about Vectrix, or even the entire EV industry, comes down to the purchase of a VX1 and some half arse'd gossip, and ill-researched opinion.

That's cool, you are entitled to express your opinion. But you make a fool of yourself when you try to pass yourself off as an authority by abusing others who know just a little more.

I have no wish to be offencive, but stick to what you know about! ( Oh, and less gratuitous abuse would be appreciated)

marcopolo

yamez4u
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Re: Vectric official service and warranty policy?

I find it very funny that a guy that spends his every waking moment railing agains a company he lost a little money on, endless heaping hateful post in one thread after another trolling a forum for a product he does not even like, Calls me "angry". Go back a reread your posts. Mine where simple disagreeing with yours. Your posts are the ones peppered with insults and put downs. I am not angry at all I am simply just tired off reading about YOUR anger. Just let your anger go. Just let it go. And move on with your life. You will feel so much better. ;-)

marcopolo
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Re: Vectric official service and warranty policy?

I find it very funny that a guy that spends his every waking moment railing agains a company he lost a little money on, endless heaping hateful post in one thread after another trolling a forum for a product he does not even like, Calls me "angry". Go back a reread your posts. Mine where simple disagreeing with yours. Your posts are the ones peppered with insults and put downs. I am not angry at all I am simply just tired off reading about YOUR anger. Just let your anger go. Just let it go. And move on with your life. You will feel so much better. ;-)

This is just a waste of time, even when you have nothing to useful to contribute, you continue with personal critisim. To paraphrase WC Fields..."go away, kid, y'bothering the grown-ups!'.

marcopolo

yamez4u
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Re: Vectric official service and warranty policy?

Now that I have some spare time to waste on you. Lets get back to this little bit

"Once again you denounce others, without any actual knowledge! Vectrix did not 'buy', batteries from Gold Peak, the battery supply was on credit secured against Vectrix shares. Vectrix was not contractual free to choose a different battery supplier."
First off disagreeing with you is not the same as denouncing you, But at this rate we might yet get there. Second even if Vectrix was not paying for there batteries which I find unlikely, And even if they had a contract to buy X amount of cells from Gold Peak at a discount, which is more likely. That is a supplier issue, that can be worked out or worst case taken to court. It changes nothing about the market dynamic of the time. IE no one wanted there Nickel Metal Vectrixes, A wise company would have listened to the market and made what the market wanted. A bike with more range. And Gold Peak having a big chunk of Vectrix stock would have surely preferred a stock worth something instead of a bankrupt company.

Which brings us back to the point, that the only truly catastrophic mistake the Vectrix company made was sticking with a battery technology that was second rate while trying to sell a first rate product. You of course have other options. I will not call you an ill-reseached moron just because I disagree with you. But I would again like to know why you spend so much time on this forum? Unlike the rest of us that want to keep our bikes running and give and get support and news about a product we like, there is you who's only purpose seems to be to bad mouth a now dead and defunct company. Just seem rather pointless to me.

marcopolo
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Re: Vectric official service and warranty policy?

I swear this is the last time I will enter into such a pointless discourse!

Second even if Vectrix was not paying for there batteries which I find unlikely, And even if they had a contract to buy X amount of cells from Gold Peak at a discount, which is more likely. That is a supplier issue, that can be worked out or worst case taken to court It changes nothing about the market dynamic of the time. IE no one wanted there Nickel Metal Vectrixes, A wise company would have listened to the market and made what the market wanted. A bike with more range. And Gold Peak having a big chunk of Vectrix stock would have surely preferred a stock worth something instead of a bankrupt company..

Do you imagine that such information is just speculation? The relationship with Vectrix and Gold Peak is not a secret. A little honest research would provide you with sufficient facts.

It's evident that you have very little commercial or legal knowledge. It doesn't matter what you find likely or unlikely, those are the events that occurred. Just because they don't suit your weird thinking, you can't dismiss the truth and propose your own.

Neither, even in the US, can a corporation just break contractual arrangements on a whim. Well, not without paying enormous damages. Gold Peak did not give 'a discount', Gold Peak extended credit with share security. No other supplier would have provided Vectrix credit, certainly not on such favourable terms, (especially since Gold peak would have litigated any such behaviour).

Despite raising considerable funds on the London AIMs exchange, Vectrix, due to poor management and a faulty business plan, VCorp was always short of money. Vectrix was geared up to be a mass-market volume seller, when the expected sales failed to materialise, Vectrix could not,and would not, downscale.

Do everyone a favour, do some research, and then offer your theories.

The story of Vectrix will continue to interest people for years to come. Simply because it was the first large scale EV maker to fail so spectacularly. What GP does with Vectrix is of even more interest as it will affect the direction of two-wheel EV development.

But I repeat, before you indulge in a debate, learn a little about your subject. Anyone, even you can check my facts, with a little diligence. Since you have done no research, you simply look foolish.

It's not my wish to be unkind to you, but in the end what are you trying to achieve? My original posts were answering questions from other contributors, by providing some additional knowledge. How will pretending that Vectrix is great get Todd's bike repaired, or any of the other issues which are discussed about the lessons from Vectrix.

I listen and learn from Miks and Matt's technical knowledge. While MikeB, David and I have very different philosophic approaches to issues, we share a lot of common ground and respect. The Laird and John of CoMoCo and I do not always agree, but we can debate usefully because I respect that what they contribute comes from careful thought and research. This is true of most contributors to this forum.

If you love your Vectrix, that's great! If you love VCorp thats weird, but your own business! What you can't do is try to invent a fairytale of excuses, in place of the facts, and abuse those who take the time, (and have the resources) to uncover the reality.

Nor do I always criticise Vectrix,or all its people. If you read my posts, you would discover that my analysis is always fair, and as accurate as possible.

James, of your listed 26 posts, a disproportionate number would appear to be abusing me! I note that you list your website as www.deny.org. This would appear to be significant to your thought process.

For the sake of readers, why don't we end this fruitless exchange. If you do some research, and discover interesting information, especially if it corrects me, or provides greater insight. I will be delighted to learn.

But, please no more snide invective passed off as fact.

marcopolo

turok
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Re: Vectric official service and warranty policy?

Yamez4u

Marco has been a participant on this forum since for a long time.

He may seem crude about Vectrix stuff, but most of the time, he is just plain right.

If he hated Vectrix in the first place, he wouldn't have bought them.

I LOVE my V, but the service sucks. I'd hate that too if I needed it.. (I've ordered a windshield and a lower seat before the winter and still don't have them...)

keep smiling :)

"doing nothin = doing nothing wrong" is invalid when the subject is environment

Aircon
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Re: Vectric official service and warranty policy?

too long. didn't read.

:)

marcopolo
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Re: Vectric official service and warranty policy?

Turok, thank you for those kind words.

Of course you are quite right! I was really excited when I first saw the VX1. I was also impressed by the idealism and enthusiasm when I met the original the original founders and management team, especially Alex Bamburg and Dr Wolfgang Gohl. My involvement in utilising the VX1, was consistent with my investment, and passion for EV transport of all kinds.

I remain impressed by Wolfgang and Alex. Like everyone, initially I thought the market would receive the VX1 more enthusiastically than transpired. It was the product everyone praised, but no-one bought! Sadly, by then Vectrix was in corporate expansion mode, and with the arrival of M.Boyle as CEO, things just went from bad to worse.

But for all it's faults,the VX1 has a real place in EV history. Despite the VX1's defects, it's still a very desirable bike to own. I would recommend anyone to buy one and get someone like Matt to convert it to a better battery system and 'sort out' 'fettle'or 'modify' the various defects. Until John's Comoco hit the market a Vectrix VX1 is still the best two-wheel EV maxi-scooter available.

But sadly, IMHO the VX1 should have been built from gliders supplied by a major bike maker, BMW,Honda or even Harley-Davidson! This would have provided access to established service and sales networks. I would have included in the design a range extender, possibly propane fuelled.From our extensive marketing survey, range was the main disincentive to potential buyers.

The VX1 was way ahead of it's time. The investment and corporate infrastructure demanded sales of 34,000 pa, for a bike that was already considered too expensive. The service plan was crazy, and a fast recipe for bankruptcy! As the experienced sales strategists departed, and the investors dried up, the CEO, Mike Boyle, spent all his time keeping an unrealistic champagne party image going, and weaving optimistic fantasies, as Vectrix drifted onto the rocks.

As somebody said, it was a damn shame. Still the lessons learnt will be very useful for other Two-wheel EV makers, like Comoco and the brighter of the PRC makers. BMW spend a lot of time, speculating if they should enter the EV market, Piaggio announce every second day the are about to build an EV version of their products. The Vectrix experience makes or volume makers hesitate.

I can't wait to see if Dr Gohl and his Indian partners can produce the bike Vectrix should have built. As a fleet vehicle the VX1, should have been a success, and the market still exists for a manufacturer to fill the need. (John, Wolfgang are you listening?)

As for GP Vectrix, I can only speculate as to the future. My assumptions are largely guesswork, derived from previous GP behaviour and business logic. Although I would like to see a developed VX1 in production, I don't see the sort of commitment and investment from GP that would create any reasonable confidence in the future of Vectrix as a high quality manufacturer.

I hope I'm wrong, but.......

We live in interesting times!

marcopolo

yamez4u
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Re: Vectric official service and warranty policy?

I have found that handle bar muffs work a little better then the larger windshield for cold rides, you can find a pair that will fit your Vectrix at most four-wheeler dealers. The two items I'm waiting on are the rear cargo box and the center stand. Hopeful now that the new Vertrix has started updating there web site they will soon start shipping parts. Also for cold weather riding spray some WD-40 under the rubber seal for the break sensors on the break handles or the first time it frost you will most likly have issues engaging the "GO" handshake.

marcopolo
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Re: Vectric official service and warranty policy?

Hey Todd, I thought check in and see how you got on with Matt Hair and the Vectrix Service Dept.

I hope your problems have been resolved? Any news yet?

marcopolo

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