Did I miss the boat? (new xm3000)

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TeamSlacker
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Did I miss the boat? (new xm3000)

It would seem I'm about 3 years late to catch the electric moped/scooter boat as most of you early odopters started this a few years ago... but I bought one anyway. Have a few motorcycles and gas mopeds in the garage to ease my gas bills in the summer, but the electric scoot route seemed intresting and another way to raise a middle finger to the oil companies.

Found a 'new old stock' xm3k. I've read probably every thread here in the past few months. So far I've:

-stripped the xm down
-tested all batteries on my CBAIII at the 20hr rate 6.45amps(4 tested good over 32ah, 1 was dieing at 2ah)
-sent xtreme my graphs from the CBA, they promptly sent me a new battery, the second battery doesn't test as well as the good 4, I"m hoping it improves with a few cycles.
-first set of invoice/mco from xtreme had the wrong VIN, they sent new one
-XM is now insured, and plated in MN
-wired and installed paktrakr
-wired for bank charging
-made a bank charger with 5 Schumacher SC600's
-went for a couple short rides the last few nights to condition the new battery

Impressions so far... this might just be fun :)

jdh2550_1
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Re: Did I miss the boat? (new xm3000)

Hi - and welcome to the fun! I started out on an XM-2000, then an XM-3000 - now I've started my own company. I wish you similar good fortunes! ;-)

John H. Founder of Current Motor Company - opinions on this site belong to me; not to my employer
Remember: " 'lectric for local. diesel for distance" - JTH, Amp Bros || "No Gas.

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Re: Did I miss the boat? (new xm3000)

I was going to submit a support ticket with x-treme, but maybe someone here has an opinion first.

My new battery still seems to be .3v lower or so than the others after a few cycles.
I'm charging at home with the bank charger, and with the factory charger at work.
When I charge with the factory charger at work, I get an 'overvolt' error (batt5) on the paktrakr (15.8v today I saw).
If I shut the charger off, and then turn it back on, the led is green/fan off, like it has a full charge.

Think batt5 is going high because of #2 being lower? Or is there an issue with batt5 that the CBA discharge graph didn't show? Or does this sound like a charger issue? When I looked today, I think 1-4 were 14.x volts and 5 was 15.8. If I recall bank charging they go up to 14.7, I think 1-4 were lower than that when 5 was high.

No errors if I charge at home with the bank charger.

reikiman
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Re: Did I miss the boat? (new xm3000)

Think batt5 is going high because of #2 being lower?

Yes that's a good assumption.

Bank charging is not a perfect panacea. What if the charger maker makes chargers with slightly different behavior? What if one of the chargers crap out? That said, I do agree bank charging is a great idea.

It's good that you have a paktrakr installed and can watch the behavior during charge and discharge. I found it extremely fascinating to watch the paktrakr display while riding and could directly see which battery was weaker than the others. Of course you have to remember to watch the road while riding and not get too caught up with the fascinating paktrakr display ;-)

- David Herron, The Long Tail Pipe, davidherron.com, 7gen.com, What is Reiki
- Electrified Electra To

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Re: Did I miss the boat? (new xm3000)

Just thought I'd share some updates here, since it's been a while since I've posted.

The XM-3000 is still working well. Commuted on it almost daily for the first summer. This past summer at work, work duties had me driving my car or truck for hauling, so the 3k didn't see much riding, just a few comutes and some errands. Still seems to be running well. Job duties have changed a bit at work, so hopefully for the summer of 2013 I wont need to drive my 4 wheel vehicles and the scoots will be back on the most used list.

In the meantime it's been fun, so I've been watching for others in the area to purchase as winter projects.
You may have seen the XM-3150 not working posted here FS, that one now sits in my garage. The shop that had it, had it completely torn apart and couldn't figure out the problem. I got it home, rolled it off my truck and started pushing it into the garage and knew within 5 seconds what was most likely wrong. Felt like a tire was flat.. nope pushed hard so I knew most likely the ESC was shorted. So that was suposed to be a winter project, and within a week I had some new FET's ordered, installed, and the 3150 is running good. I had all 5 batt's out and tested with my CBA3, one of them tested around 15ah rather than the others 35ah or so, so I may have 1 bad batt in it yet, but I wired it to charge with my bank charger and figured I'd give it a few cycles before I installed a new batt. Winter project #1 never made it into the winter.

Then I see the 2 XM-3500li's posted for sale here and craigslist, fairly local. So a few emails and phone calls are exchanged and I made the 5 hour drive to pick them up, so now they sit in the garage as the winter project. All the batteries have been removed, and I'm in the process of individually charging them and discharging them on the CBA. So far I still have my fingers crossed, out of the 40 total batteries, it looks like I'll have 24-25 that are useable. I have seen some variance in the voltage under load, but I'm hoping it's just the CBA and it's anderson connectors not liking the 20amps (I can actually see the voltage change just from wiggling the anderson as they are discharging). So my fingers are crossed that I'll get the best 20 installed, and they'll come around with a few cycles. Everything I've read here said it takes a few cycles to get these up to capacity. I'm planning to wire a charging harness and balance charge them with my RC charger as needed for a while to get them all charged equal.
For the second 3500, for now, untill I can possibly find some used lifepo4's, I might just install some 17ah AGM's and make it a short commuter, possibly sell it that way or hang onto it for now for parts.

Once I have 3500li up and running to my satisfaction, the 3000 and 3150 will be up for sale.

LeftieBiker
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Re: Did I miss the boat? (new xm3000)

I assume that by "ESC" you mean the controller unit? Damn, I hope so! I have a dead XM3000 that is also hard to roll, and while a new motor is $500 (and I'm not even sure it's the right unit) I should have a spare controller somewhere in the garage...

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Re: Did I miss the boat? (new xm3000)

Sorry, yes, interchaning my RC hobby terms and the scooter terms. I was refering to the Speed controller. You can verify by disconnecting the 3 heavy wires that run from the ESC to the motor, if the wheel spins easier, then you have some shorted FET's in the speed controller.
You will have to de-solder all the FETs from the board to test as they are grouped in parallel banks for each phase. The safe bet would be to replace them all but I just replaced the ones that were shorted.

LeftieBiker
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Re: Did I miss the boat? (new xm3000)

Replacing FETs is out of my league, but as I wrote, I believe I have a whole spare - and hopefully good controller to swap in.

ZE2Kart
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Re: Did I miss the boat? (new xm3000)

Talk about missing the boat. I JUST got a Kasea ZE2000($400) off of craigslist. It only has 60 miles on it so it has barely been used over the last 7 years and has never been licensed. That being said, the guy didn't have the original charger so I ordered one online($180) and after a slight modification to the 3 pin socket just below the seat, I plugged it in and it came to life. Everything electrical seems to be in order except when I give the throttle a twist, it tries and wants to go but gives a vibrating cluncking sound in the area of the motor in the rear tire. The battery meter on the right side of the dash jumps from full green to nothing red. Is that normal or should it just dip a little as you use the throttle? My hope is that the batteries just need to be replaced since they have been sitting for 7 years and that is all, but my luck usually is not that good. Judging by the dates of these posts, I'm not even sure anybody will read this but if somebody does, what advice do have for a first time EV owner who really wants this thing to see what being on the road is like?

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Re: Did I miss the boat? (new xm3000)

On a set of fresh charged batteries, the gauge on the dash should barely move when you give throttle. If it's been sitting 7 years, and most likey has not had a charger on it that entire time, there is a 99% chance the batteries are shot.

The only good way to test the batteries is remove them, charge individually, and test individually. But my bet is they are all bad by now.

ZE2Kart
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Re: Did I miss the boat? (new xm3000)

Yep TeamSlacker. You were right. Two of them were completely shot, 5 others were holding around 12 volts of charge but no amps, and 1 of them was ok. I replaced the whole lot and I'm in business. Runs like a champ. Thanks.

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