XB-600 Rear Hub Motor Wiring Repair

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polecat
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XB-600 Rear Hub Motor Wiring Repair

The rear wheel nuts worked themselves free, on my XB-600, resulting in the spinning of the rear axle and ultimately the chewing of the hub motor electrical cable. I've removed the rear plate of the hub motor (brake side), but am currently unable to remove the front plate (free wheel side). What is the proper method to remove the front hub motor plate, so that I may expose and repair the hub motor wiring? Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

mf70
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Re: XB-600 Rear Hub Motor Wiring Repair

OUCH!

As far as I know on this forum, you are the unfortunate pioneer. I have split the case of a 500W permanent magnet hub motor. It was difficult. Unless you have experience with disassembling frozen aluminum castings, I would see if you can get the help of a mechanic for getting the castings apart. (Once apart, I added tapped holes around the edge for jack screws to separate the halves for the "next time." It turned out to be helpful.)

There might be some more specific advice over at the Endless Sphere site.

If all else fails, they still list the XB600 hub motor at a fairly reasonable price.

Mark

mf70
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Re: XB-600 Rear Hub Motor Wiring Repair
polecat
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Re: XB-600 Rear Hub Motor Wiring Repair

X-Treme scooter suggests I use a gear puller and rubber mallet to remove the front plate and free wheel. I'll let you know how it goes.

polecat
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Re: XB-600 Rear Hub Motor Wiring Repair

O.K. The front hub plate is off. I've removed the wires from the axle (needed a mechanic to extract; the wires were forced tightly into the axle. Looks like I'm dealing with 3 X 20 guage wires and 5 X 22 or 24 guage wires. Anyone know if I need specialized insulation, or would standard wiring do? Cheers.

mf70
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Re: XB-600 Rear Hub Motor Wiring Repair

I'm pretty sure that it is thin-section, perhaps teflon. I would strip a sample and check the gauge.

Do you have any pictures of the opened hub?

MF70

polecat
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Re: XB-600 Rear Hub Motor Wiring Repair

All Righty then. I have the new wires soldered in and ready to accept the spade connectors (Thought I'd use spade connectors. In the event the axle spins in the future, I hope to avoid freshly cut wires. My hope is that the connectors will separate before the wires do the same.) I plan to have pictures of the motor online shortly, just as soon as I can locate a functioning camera.

marylandbob
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Re: XB-600 Rear Hub Motor Wiring Repair

Using a "Torque Arm" attached from the hub to the vehicle frame, will eliminate problems related to a loose axle spinning and damaging wires! If there is no torque arm installed, having one added would be a good idea. ("WAVECREST" bicycles do have one, and if the axle is loose, it still will not turn.)

Robert M. Curry

mf70
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Re: XB-600 Rear Hub Motor Wiring Repair

Anti-torque bars are wonderful. In fact, the brake plate on the other side of the XB-600 has one. Unfortunately, the X-Treme hub motor has NO exposed portion of the non-rotating hub. the only torque restraint in this case is the flats on the axle. The best possible thing we can do is to make sure that those flats can pick up the torque and transfer it to the swing arm:
axle detail

Both the "tabbed lock washer" (both sides) and the "flat plate lock washer" (both sides) should fit closely to the axle flats. If necessary, the lands on the washers could be built up with weldment. The tabs fit in the swing arm slots and transfer the torque to the swing arm. The tabs should not be so long that they interfere with tightening the axle "lock nuts", and the swing arm slot should be free of grinding flash that also would interfere with tightening the lock nuts.

In the case of my XB-600, both the tab length and the slot clearance made getting a secure axle unlikely. The swing arm slot had been ground out roughly, looking like the result of an angle grinder rather than a punch or mill. It needed careful file work to get a secure assembly. So far (knock wood) is has lasted two years.

One other caution: If you EVER have a shop replace the tire, remind them not to pinch the wiring that is coming out of the axle. YOU know how much trouble is is to replace, but they may not realize it.

Mark

polecat
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Re: XB-600 Rear Hub Motor Wiring Repair

Right then. I've mounted the motor, reconnected the wiring and tested the unit......behold, the patient has a pulse. I then added enough blue Loctite to the wheel axle nuts, to choke a horse. Hopefully my axle spinning days are over, but I'll keep you posted if they're not.

DSCF2857.JPG

polecat
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Re: XB-600 Rear Hub Motor Wiring Repair

Here is an additional motor pic.

DSCF2858.JPG

marylandbob
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Re: XB-600 Rear Hub Motor Wiring Repair

Keep in mind that the stator hub, (the motor plate with the windings) is very likely to get vey warm/hot in operation, and your "taped down" wiring may come loose due to the heat causing it to loosen! Be sure that whatever is done inside this area can withstand the heat and vibration without failing. Vibration is largely from road roughness--I would also carefully solder all connections after making a good, clean, mechanical connection, rather than rely on wirenuts, because of this vibration. "Liquid Tape" and/or heat shrink insulation might be good choices to insulate your wiring splices.

Robert M. Curry

polecat
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Re: XB-600 Rear Hub Motor Wiring Repair

Thanks for the suggestions marylandbob. I soldered all the wires together with copious quantities of solder (even those under the wirenuts). Only time will tell if the repair can withstand the heat and vibration ( I was a little concerned about this myself). For now, I have my fingers and toes crossed.

On a somewhat related topic, I noticed I 'liberated' one of my axle jam nuts. Does anyone know if I need an M14 fine thread 1.5mm pitch nut to replace the lost one?

Cheers.

polecat
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Re: XB-600 Rear Hub Motor Wiring Repair

I'm currently in the testing phase. I drove the e-bike 40km yesterday without incident. I even struck a few pot holes. The jam nut (which was not easy to find locally, I might add), turned out to be an M14 fine thread 1.5mm pitch.

polecat
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Re: XB-600 Rear Hub Motor Wiring Repair

I've added 300+kms to my e-bike since the repair and no problems to report to date.

polecat
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Re: XB-600 Rear Hub Motor Wiring Repair

Well, everything was going swimmingly until today. The rear wheel nuts worked themselves free...yet again (even after heavily torquing the axle nuts and the addition of enough blue loctite to choke a horse). Looks like I may have to resort to the purchase of a torque arm, as suggested earlier. Anyone know where I can buy a torque arm that will fit snugly on the rear axle of the XB-600?

mf70
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Re: XB-600 Rear Hub Motor Wiring Repair

Oooh!

As a first resort, I would closely check the existing parts that are "tasked" with transmitting the torque of the motor axle to the swing arm. I have detailed them in the sketch attached above.

In my scoot's case, there were a lot of "manufacturing errors" that compromised the system:

  • axle slot was coarsely ground, with flash un-removed. This could have interfered with getting a proper compression on the axle.
  • Axle washers were too wide for the swing arm channel, again compromising ability of axle nuts to clamp.
  • Tabbed washers had wrong geometry on their legs. They were too long, spacing the plain washer on the other side away from the swing arm.

I would also closely check the broached flats on the slotted washers. If they do not exactly match the axle profile, I would repair them by welding in new metal and filing them until they perfectly matched the axle.

Same for the large oval slotted washers.

If necessary, new washers could be hand filed out of 1/8" carbon steel.

The existing design is capable of handling the motor's torque. Whether the existing execution of that design is adequate is a completely different question. Adding a torque arm would only work if you were confident of linking that arm to the motor's axle.

Mark

polecat
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Re: XB-600 Rear Hub Motor Wiring Repair

Looks like my good fortune came to an end today. My e-bike developed a vibration/noise in the motor, along with dramatically reduced speed (~5km/hr). A short time later, applying throttle resulted in no response from the motor (volt. gauge showing full voltage; lights and turn signals operate, inspected the rear wheel making certain it rotated freely (no problem there) and I checked the brakes to make certain the brake switches weren't sticking). I removed and opened the motor, hoping that one of the main 3 electrical lines had broken free. All connections appear solid. I'll check the connections again tomorrow for continuity.

Is there a quick and painless method of checking the motor, the controller, and the throttle in order to isolate the problem? Any ideas would be greatly appreciated.

Cheers.

mf70
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Re: XB-600 Rear Hub Motor Wiring Repair

As I said at an earlier point in this adventure, it looks like you're a pioneer. Knowing its history, however, I would want to check the connections to the Hall effect sensors in the hub. Without those signals, the controller doesn't know where to send the power. You may be back on the road yet!

The folks over at "endless sphere" are remarkably technically adept; you could productively troll their message threads for more insight.

Mark

polecat
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Re: XB-600 Rear Hub Motor Wiring Repair

I tested the motor (while connected to the e-bike) and found some pretty peculiar readings emanating from all three Hall effect sensors (showing 0 DCV rather than expected: 0 - +5DCV). I opened the motor and tested continuity on each wire leading to and from the Hall effect sensors and low and behold, I found that the positive power lead was sheared at the axle (internal to the motor). Once the wire was replaced, I checked all connections and reassembled the motor. My e-bike returns from e-bike nirvana, once again!

mf70
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Re: XB-600 Rear Hub Motor Wiring Repair

So what are you going to name it in honor of its nine lives?

MF70

polecat
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Re: XB-600 Rear Hub Motor Wiring Repair

I think "Toonces" has a likable quality to it....just have to be careful I don't drive over any cliffs:)

schriz
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Re: XB-600 Rear Hub Motor Wiring Repair

been looking for topic about the wiring repair. i am a little bit confused after i look at the auto repair manuals. i thought i can repair the wiring however it gone bad. then when i keep on reading post from here, there now i know how to do on the wiring. hanks for this helpful posts.

mf70
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Re: XB-600 Rear Hub Motor Wiring Repair

"polecat" seems to have gotten his scoot back on the road - twice, at least.

Perhaps you ought to start your own thread. When you say, "i thought i can repair the wiring however it gone bad.", what is happening?

I would advocate doing the rear axle checks as outlined in this thread no matter what, but that alone won't fix a wiring problem.

Mark

polecat
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Re: XB-600 Rear Hub Motor Wiring Repair

Five months later.....Toonces is still purring like a kitten.

mf70
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Re: XB-600 Rear Hub Motor Wiring Repair

Hooray!

However, don't stop checking. Also look at the connectors (ESPECIALLY the three power phase connectors) to the hubmotor on a regular basis.

Mark

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