Battery Wiring

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phoenixx
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Battery Wiring

I'm not electrically knowledgeable, so please forgive me if these questions seem like common sense to some of you. I need help on electric scooter battery wiring. There are four batteries in scooter, however, one of the cables is red and has two red caps so not sure which one is negative and which side is positive. Does it matter? Currently hooked up as a negative and positive. Also, if anyone has info on how to hook all four of these up correctly (read this was important) would be appreciated since I can't find the correct service manual.

IBScootn
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Re: Battery Wiring

If you are not electrically knowledgeable then find someone local who is via craiglist, local EV club, local college student, or local golf cart repair shop. With these batteries you are working with huge amounts of current that at best can melt the batteries and worst injure you.

But if you insist on trying to fix it yourself, let the folks here know what model scooter it is and provide photos / full description of the parts in question.

Good luck

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marylandbob
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Re: Battery Wiring

Making an incorrect connection often results in the IMMEDIATE damage/destruction of expensive parts!--Seek knowledgeable assistance, get it right the FIRST time, or spend $$$$$ later!

Robert M. Curry

marylandbob
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Re: Battery Wiring

Making an incorrect connection often results in the IMMEDIATE damage/destruction of expensive parts!--Seek knowledgeable assistance, get it right the FIRST time, or spend $$$$$ later!

Robert M. Curry

robert93
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Re: Battery Wiring

Without absolutely knowing which scooter you have, any advice could have disasterous results. There are at least two logical ways for four batteries to be hooked up, so we would need more info to safely help you. Bob is right, get this wrong, and it gets expensive,,,, and DANGEROUS! the voltages and amperage of these packs can KILL you. Insulated gloves are a very good idea when working inside battery boxes.

phoenixx
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Re: Battery Wiring

Thanks for the quick replies, concern. Thinking about taking it to a scooter shop, it's a chinese Panterra Retro 750 electric. Haven't been able to find any service manual just for the electric version. The cables are unhooked except for the battery wiring. Recently bought it, was trying to troubleshoot it when I found out one of the circuits on the controller board and the end of the green wire to it was burnt. So I ordered a new controller and regulator, but when taking a closer look at the battery wiring, it looks like it may be hooked up wrong? I won't mess with the wiring until I take it in, but can someone at least tell me if I need a new battery cable? I don't want to hook up the controller and regulator and fry 'em, even worse the motor. I'll post a pic of what the battery wiring looks like when I get a chance.

phoenixx
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Re: Battery Wiring

Forgot to mention that I did test the batteries with a multimeter after I charged it. Each one had a range from 12.6 and above. That's also why I thought the wiring might be wrong because I read they're supposed to be at about the same level. A couple of them were above 13.

phoenixx
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Re: Battery Wiring

Ok, the wire I was talking about is actually a black/black wire. It's connected to a negative/positive connection from the second battery from top of pic (negative) to the third battery (positive).

The very first battery which is hard to see (very top of pic) the negative connection goes to the positive on the second battery.

The positive wire on the first battery goes to the switch. The green wire on the third battery goes to the adapter.

The other question I had was regarding the charger port. Isn't the L pin connection on the port supposed to be negative (green)?

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robert93
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Re: Battery Wiring

Ok, what you have is a 48 volt "series circuit" (12+12+12+12)for the batteries, Green is NEGATIVE, Red is POSITIVE, the connections from battery to battery are all Positive of one to Negative on the next, making a big circle of the batteries, going to the switch, and back to the charge port. (Port_red_switch_redB+ B-_B2+ B2-_ B3+ B3-_ B4+ B4-_Green_Port) The color of the rubber boots isnt quite as important as the marks on the batteries where they go. After charging, those batteries should all be 13.5-14.4 or so. Might be a good idea to replace all 4 with new ones. Wash hands thoroughly after messing with those batteries. As to where the wires go on the port, the charger plug is the best guide for that, use the meter on the charger to get your polarity and positions verified. Be careful, work slow, you will get it.

robert93
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Re: Battery Wiring

Oh, yes, replace any 'burnt' wiring with wire of the same gauge or thicker. I did run across this site, I've never dealt with them, and know nothing about them, but, they do have a list of parts for the panterra , and may have some knowledge of them. http://www.partsforscooters.com/Vehicle-Type/Panterra-Retro-Fusion-and-Freedom-Electric-Scooter-Parts

marylandbob
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Re: Battery Wiring

I used to own a PANTERRA, it uses a matched set of 4 12 volt batteries, wired in series for a nominal 48 volts (55 to 57 volts at completion of full charge, with GOOD batteries) If you put new batteries in, get FOUR, all the same type and age!-Many of these scooters have been damaged by someone connecting the AC line voltage to the charging port! Do NOT connect AC voltage direct to the scooter! The separate CHARGER has a cord that connects to the wall outlet, and then the cable from the charger DC output connects to the charge port under the front lip of the seat. (Using the same type connector can cause problems!) If you do not have the separate charger, you cannot charge it.

Robert M. Curry

phoenixx
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Re: Battery Wiring

I figured I'd probably have to replace the batteries, looks like it's been in storage for awhile, but that's the way I bought it. I understand the positive from one battery to negative to another, where it runs into the switch has kinda got me a little confused. has got two positive cables running to it, but one runs to the battery and other runs to an adapter with the green from the other battery running to the same adapter, but it should be okay, because they both have fuses before going to the switch. just wish i had a diagram. I appreciate the help though robert93.

Thanks for the info marylandbob. Yes, I read I should get four instead of one or two batteries because the others may not charge right and I won't get the full charge on the new ones. The charger I have has a dc output and another one for the wall. I think it is a Soleil, has the green light when fully charged. I was just wondering about the charger port because in the pic the red wire that's coming off it, that's the side the L is on. One of the sites where they sell the ports, it stated the L was negative.

And my mistake in my last post I put the green wire as coming from 3rd battery, it's from the fourth.

mf70
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Re: Battery Wiring

The basic circuit, as has been mentioned, is a circle from the red lead on the controller box, to a positive terminal on a battery and out the negative and so on through all four batteries, through the circuit breaker, and back to the black lead on the controller. There will be a "side branch" to the charging port from the most positive leg on the circuit to the most negative leg. There MAY be another "side branch" to auxiliary circuits (lights, horn, etc...) with a smaller fuse in line. If you are confused about the wire routing, try making your own schematic of what you are seeing. When you are doing the drawing, don't worry about what should happen, just reflect what is on the scoot. You may have to re-draw the schematic for a more logical arrangement of components. Once you have a clear drawing of the circuit, you can then conduct "thought experiments" to understand what needs to be there.

Here's the XB-600's circuit diagram. This includes a second plug that merely serves to connect the battery pack to the scoot, there is a second plug for the charger.:

http://s200.photobucket.com/albums/aa122/mf70/?action=view&current=xb600wiring.png

Circuit breaker: It doesn't matter where the circuit breaker is in the series circuit.

Batteries: I would charge each battery separately with a good quality 12V charger at the 2A setting to start. If the fully charged batteries are more than .2V apart after charging, I'd say the pack is not balanced.

Charging port: as has been mentioned, polarity is CRUCIAL. The stock chargers will die quickly if hooked up backwards. Good quality chargers are more robust.

Mark

phoenixx
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Re: Battery Wiring

Ok, I think I found a basic wiring diagram for the batteries. On the pic, the top floor arrangement with 48v looks correct with the inverter being the controller and the switch somewhere inbetween. If wrong, let me know.

battery_wiring_arrangement1.jpg

Here's a link to a charger/charger port for the panterra's that had me wondering about mine, on this site the L is negative, mine it's hooked up with red wire where the L is.

http://www.monsterscooterparts.com/48vo20ampdch.html

Or maybe I need one of these?

http://www.neoscooters.com/proddetail.asp?prod=104%2D100%5F48v%5FCharger%5FAdaptor

Seems like previous owner had a different setup going on?

phoenixx
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Re: Battery Wiring

Under specs and compatibility on the link above, says polarity is reversed on these.

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