ERider 8000W scooter - Australia (similar to xm5000li)

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pcarlson1979
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Re: ERider 8000W scooter - Australia (similar to xm5000li)

Hi all,

I have been busy riding my scooter and having fun. I have now passed 1,700km, that's now passed the 1,000 mile mark still without a problem.

The only thing I am not happy with is the lighting on this scooter, as you can all understand. So I have decided to upgrade from crummy 35w halogen bulbs to a street LEGAL HID system. To be legal in Australia, the HID must be housed in a projector lens and NOT the normal reflector. The projector gives better light spread and stops the spread from the HID and gives it a nice clean cutoff so you don't blind on-coming drivers.

With the stock head lights on these scooters, I ride on high beam all the time and still don't get flashed. Even high beam is too dull to ride safely.

To make this all happen I have bought a new 72v DC/DC Converter with a 300W to handle the high power demands. The HID lights draw 35w once ignited but they can draw up to 120W EACH for a period of 5 seconds during the igniting stage. By the looks of it, The standard DC/DC converter looks to be a non-isolated 150w model and I think it would burn out after a few attempts to ignite a HID.

Here is my replacement DC/DC converter.56-97v Input and 13.5V output, Isolated and regulated.
300w DCDC converter.JPG

Here is a HID Bulb in the stock reflector and the average spread it produces. This is an ILLEGAL installation in Australia.
hid bulb - reflector.PNG
hid - reflector.PNG

Here is a HID housed inside the Projector with lens. The whole thing is then mounted inside the reflector housing. This is what is required to be LEGAL in Australia.
hid bulb - projector.PNG
hid - projector.PNG

So not only does the projector make it LEGAL, it actually gives a MUCH better spread of light with the sharp cutoff for low beam.

I have ordered my DC/DC converter and I am now in the process of measuring my scooter headlamp reflectors to decide which HID kit will fit. Once I get going, I will take photo's of my actual bike being converted.

------------------------------
eRider 8000w Scooter - PDT Version
72v 50AH CHL battery
350A Sevcon controller

24km: Delivered - 24 September 2011
2490km: Installed dual 35w HID lights Bi-Xenon Projectors - 27 November 2011
8313km: Installed BMS -

MEroller
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Re: ERider 8000W scooter - Australia (similar to xm5000li)

Have you tried adjusting your stock lights already? I know you're a geek, but that would be the very first thing to try. And the second would be to put in that 13.5 DC/DC converter because that is the ususal automotive voltage and will enhance bulb brightness too (and slightly reduce it's lifetime).
Converting to a HID (or Xenon lamp as it is called around here for the gas content) is a truly geeky thing to do, and in these quarters here it would require a lot more than just the mechanical conversion work :-)

My rides:
2017 Zero S ZF6.5 11kW, erider Thunder 5kW

pcarlson1979
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Re: ERider 8000W scooter - Australia (similar to xm5000li)

Hi Meroller.

I found out tonight after pulling apart the bike that it actually has H4 sockets so I can install a normal H4 car bulb but at 55w/60w I'd need the bigger dc/dc anyway but I still think hid would be the way to go. I'm a litt,e worried if I put I. A 55w halogen it would melt the reflector.

Edit: yes I have tried adjusting the lights, but it's like moving a candle up and down, either way it's still only a candle.

------------------------------
eRider 8000w Scooter - PDT Version
72v 50AH CHL battery
350A Sevcon controller

24km: Delivered - 24 September 2011
2490km: Installed dual 35w HID lights Bi-Xenon Projectors - 27 November 2011
8313km: Installed BMS -

Johnny J
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Re: ERider 8000W scooter - Australia (similar to xm5000li)

Hi Meroller.

I found out tonight after pulling apart the bike that it actually has H4 sockets so I can install a normal H4 car bulb but at 55w/60w I'd need the bigger dc/dc anyway but I still think hid would be the way to go. I'm a litt,e worried if I put I. A 55w halogen it would melt the reflector.

Edit: yes I have tried adjusting the lights, but it's like moving a candle up and down, either way it's still only a candle.

Beware of the extra heat from the 55/60W bulbs, there´s not alot of air space in the reflectors and they are made of plastic.

pcarlson1979
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Re: ERider 8000W scooter - Australia (similar to xm5000li)

Well after seeing the quality of the plastic reflectors I don't think H4 55/60w bulbs would be a good idea. I am committed to installing HID. I have been in contact with an eBay seller and found a kit that will fit (i hope) in the H4 socket so I can still adjust the light up/down with the screw.

Here are some photo's

Here is the headlight housing on my scooter....still loving the red :-)
Headlight_0.JPG

This is the 2" HID Projector with lens with a H4 socket to plug directly into existing housing.
2 inch HID.jpg

This shows the internal "shutter" that goes up and down to produce that low beam cut-off. So the bulb stay on at all times and only the shutter moves up or down via a relay.
low beam HID.jpg

------------------------------
eRider 8000w Scooter - PDT Version
72v 50AH CHL battery
350A Sevcon controller

24km: Delivered - 24 September 2011
2490km: Installed dual 35w HID lights Bi-Xenon Projectors - 27 November 2011
8313km: Installed BMS -

pcarlson1979
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Re: ERider 8000W scooter - Australia (similar to xm5000li)

Ok, so I have been able to find the perfect HID kit for my scooter but they only sell american low beam modules. They expect to have an Australian version around November 13th. Grrr. The waiting game... Ah well it will be worth the wait if it works.

I will be ordering a set of 4300k (white) HID's with a white angel eye (white ccfl circle around the HID for parking lights).

I've seen that my 300W DC/DC converter has been posted. This looks like a fun project to do on my Christmas holidays.

------------------------------
eRider 8000w Scooter - PDT Version
72v 50AH CHL battery
350A Sevcon controller

24km: Delivered - 24 September 2011
2490km: Installed dual 35w HID lights Bi-Xenon Projectors - 27 November 2011
8313km: Installed BMS -

JasonTaylor
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Re: ERider 8000W scooter - Australia (similar to xm5000li)

This shows the internal "shutter" that goes up and down to produce that low beam cut-off. So the bulb stay on at all times and only the shutter moves up or down via a relay.

What's immoral isn't the beam width. It's using a mechanical relay shutter motorized part like that on a chain-free, gear-free lithium-powered scooter!! And seriously in the summer it might get real hot.

Jason

Jason Taylor. Fresh rant each day @ http://twitter.com/jasontaylor7

pcarlson1979
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Re: ERider 8000W scooter - Australia (similar to xm5000li)

Hi Jason,

The relay is only activated for High beam to pull the shutter down. I don't understand how a light can be immoral? Is that something I quoted?

The HID stays turned on at all times and the shutter just blocks the top part of the beam to stop glare to oncoming traffic.

------------------------------
eRider 8000w Scooter - PDT Version
72v 50AH CHL battery
350A Sevcon controller

24km: Delivered - 24 September 2011
2490km: Installed dual 35w HID lights Bi-Xenon Projectors - 27 November 2011
8313km: Installed BMS -

pcarlson1979
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Re: ERider 8000W scooter - Australia (similar to xm5000li)

--

------------------------------
eRider 8000w Scooter - PDT Version
72v 50AH CHL battery
350A Sevcon controller

24km: Delivered - 24 September 2011
2490km: Installed dual 35w HID lights Bi-Xenon Projectors - 27 November 2011
8313km: Installed BMS -

pcarlson1979
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Re: ERider 8000W scooter - Australia (similar to xm5000li)

I bit the bullet today and replaced one of the headlight bulbs with a H4 headlight, a 60/55w halogen. I went for a test ride and now low beam is a lot better than before, I just need to aim it a bit higher, but high beam is still just as bad. So it looks like the reflectors are not designed that well. An interesting fact is that the stock DC/DC Converter is only supplying 11.1v to the headlight bulbs.

On the dark road in a 90 zone, I was still only comfortable going around 70km/h. It is an improvement over 60km/h with the original bulbs. I am hoping the HID bulbs will create enough light so I can ride safely and watch out for kangaroos because they are all over the place on the dark stretch of road.

------------------------------
eRider 8000w Scooter - PDT Version
72v 50AH CHL battery
350A Sevcon controller

24km: Delivered - 24 September 2011
2490km: Installed dual 35w HID lights Bi-Xenon Projectors - 27 November 2011
8313km: Installed BMS -

JasonTaylor
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Re: ERider 8000W scooter - Australia (similar to xm5000li)

The relay is only activated for High beam to pull the shutter down. I don't understand how a light can be immoral?

No, you don't. Let me ask you a question. How many other moving parts are there like the shutter that can break on that bike? Compare: how many on a harley? View a few of steve jobs' lectures. That might help. Or not.

Cheers,
Jason

Jason Taylor. Fresh rant each day @ http://twitter.com/jasontaylor7

Klas2k
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Re: ERider 8000W scooter - Australia (similar to xm5000li)

I am also totally lost here.
What are you talking about - A shutter is "immoral" !?

As far as I know the shutter makes the light NOT blind oncoming traffic, so in what way is it immoral ?
And whay is that worse than for instance forgetting to turn the high beam off or turning it of too late ?

And what does that have to do with moving parts !?
'if the shutter breaks you'll fix it of course, as with other things on the bike.

Then a shutter may cause you to have a less robust design overall since you are adding more parts that can break (that goes for some immobile parts as well like a bulb for instance).

But what does it have to do with immorality ? Or am I interprenting that word wrog here (I am not a native English speaker) !?

/K

MEroller
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Re: ERider 8000W scooter - Australia (similar to xm5000li)

I think the "immoral" is meant "tongue-in-cheek" here, in the sense that our electric motors have done away with the last wear-sensitve parts (the brushes), and in general have exactly one single moving part, the rotor (wheel), which is HEAPS less than an ICE-scooter has, so adding an electromechanical part (that could brake down) might seem almost like a sacrilege to a modern electric scooter. I would also think "immoral" is a little strong in this context...

My rides:
2017 Zero S ZF6.5 11kW, erider Thunder 5kW

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Re: ERider 8000W scooter - Australia (similar to xm5000li)

MEroller: maybe you are right. To me though there is still a lot of advantages even if there would be an extra shutter :). And the rotor is far from the only moving part: wheels, Handlebars, brakes and brake levers, throttle, various buttons, locks, center-, and sidestands etc.
In addition a lot of electrical components are sensitive to overheating and vibrations etc

So I dont see why adding one electromagnetically controlled shutter is such an incredible bad idea to call it "immoral", even if I do agree in general that less moving parts is better.

/k

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Re: ERider 8000W scooter - Australia (similar to xm5000li)

Took a short pleasure ride today and checked the scooters trip meter compared to the GPS trip and strangely enough it seems like the scooter one shows to little.
It showed 12.6km and the GPS 13.2km....

MEroller
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Re: ERider 8000W scooter - Australia (similar to xm5000li)

Took a short pleasure ride today and checked the scooters trip meter compared to the GPS trip and strangely enough it seems like the scooter one shows to little.
It showed 12.6km and the GPS 13.2km....

Same here, particularly with my now slightly larger diameter winter tires. The digital trip meter and odometer on the Thunder appear to read ever so slightly too little. Pcarlson, how is it with your digital odo / trip meter?

My rides:
2017 Zero S ZF6.5 11kW, erider Thunder 5kW

IBScootn
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Re: ERider 8000W scooter - Australia (similar to xm5000li)

That's why I installed a Cycle Analyst - your speed and distance is always accurate because you can set the tire size. I don't understand why manufacturers don't create an Chinese equivalent for scooters.

Motorcycles: 2011 ZEV Trail 7100, 84V, 60AH, 60+mph, Cycle Analyst, TNC throttle, modified charger. 2013 Kymco GT300i
Bicycles: 2017 Sondors Thin
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pcarlson1979
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Re: ERider 8000W scooter - Australia (similar to xm5000li)

The digital trip meter and odometer on the Thunder appear to read ever so slightly too little. Pcarlson, how is it with your digital odo / trip meter?

Hi all.

Ok so today I rode the the dentist and back home. I reset all trip meters and here is what I found.

Cycle Analyst: 9.544km
Digital Trip meter: 10.4km
Analogue Odometer: 9.4km

On another note. I got an email today saying my HID projector headlights have been made to meet Australian standards for low beam. They are being sent express so hopefully they will be here in 1 week. They are from "auto retrofitters". They are 2" projectors but small enough to fit inside the original headlight buckets. Hopefully. They surely will be brighter and better than the stock lights.

Today I hit 1990km without a problem. But the lightning bolt sticker has fallen off. But that's about it. I'm very happy with the bikes so far.

------------------------------
eRider 8000w Scooter - PDT Version
72v 50AH CHL battery
350A Sevcon controller

24km: Delivered - 24 September 2011
2490km: Installed dual 35w HID lights Bi-Xenon Projectors - 27 November 2011
8313km: Installed BMS -

pcarlson1979
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Re: ERider 8000W scooter - Australia (similar to xm5000li)

UH-OH!

1,997km and I may have just come across my first problem.

For the last week or so, starting the motor from still sometimes produced a "bang" like the hall effect sensors were not lined up correctly, but nothing to worry about as it didn't happen all the time.

Today as I just had a left hand turn to turn into the work car park (slightly uphill) when the light went green I slowly rolled on the throttle as normal and the bike gave a full 1 second of "grinding" noise and then proceeded to drive with a very low torque, but sped up fine after 10km/h.

I tried to reproduce the fault but can only get the normal single "clang". It was raining this morning, so I can't be sure if my rear wheel lost traction at the lights (I doubt it) or whether the hall sensors have been wet.

Anyone else had these clunking noises when trying to start from dead still? I've worked with hub motors in the past on eBikes and it is definetily a hall sensor problem. I noticed the motor has 2 hall sensor cables so I may try swapping the hall sensor plugs and see what happens.

Here is the YouTube link so you can see and hear the clunk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?nomobile=1&v=_zzal-mixC4

Edit: I have swapped the hall sensor cables and problem remains.

I have even disabled regen as a test and it still does it when you apply power. It seems to go clunk when you apply power ot when you apply regen. I may try swapping my motor out with my wife's motor this weekend and if the problem goes away then I'll know 100% it's the motor.

------------------------------
eRider 8000w Scooter - PDT Version
72v 50AH CHL battery
350A Sevcon controller

24km: Delivered - 24 September 2011
2490km: Installed dual 35w HID lights Bi-Xenon Projectors - 27 November 2011
8313km: Installed BMS -

MEroller
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Re: ERider 8000W scooter - Australia (similar to xm5000li)

With my Kelly controller suddenly applying lots of throttle at standstill will produce a thump maybe about 1/3rd as loud as that, but I assume it has more to do with the sudden magnetic surge caused by the sudden startup current on my bike. Yours sounds way worse !

My rides:
2017 Zero S ZF6.5 11kW, erider Thunder 5kW

JasonTaylor
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Re: ERider 8000W scooter - Australia (similar to xm5000li)

UH-OH!

It's to be expected. As I recall, your sticker came off recently. And if you know anything about hard drives, or most any electronics, like say an xbox, once you remove the sticker, you void the warranty. And once you void the warranty, the system is designed to fail. (Basic econ 101, need fresh sales asap after manufacurer's liability period ends.) I'd put the sticker back on and hope for the best.

Cheers,
Jason

Jason Taylor. Fresh rant each day @ http://twitter.com/jasontaylor7

pcarlson1979
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Re: ERider 8000W scooter - Australia (similar to xm5000li)

Hi all,

Well I sent an email off to Erider in Melbourne and I am still super impressed with their after sales service. First I will test with my wife's hub motor and if the problem goes away then Erider will simply send me a new motor?! Wow. So if anyone in Australia is worried after sales service from Erider, you have nothing to worry about. My wife's scooter suffered a broken front fender during transport and the dealer sent a new one express post so we had that fixed in just 2 days!! Holden are not even that quick to fix something on my car!

I will keep you updated as to whether it was the Motor or something else playing up.

edit: Oh, I am still riding my scooter into work so it's not broken, just a 'clunk' when you accelerate or regen. It sounds like the drive shaft is moving about 5mm but I checked the axle bolts and they are as tight as can be.

------------------------------
eRider 8000w Scooter - PDT Version
72v 50AH CHL battery
350A Sevcon controller

24km: Delivered - 24 September 2011
2490km: Installed dual 35w HID lights Bi-Xenon Projectors - 27 November 2011
8313km: Installed BMS -

pcarlson1979
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Re: ERider 8000W scooter - Australia (similar to xm5000li)

Update: I got home today and pulled off the swing arm covers and found both of the axle nuts to be very loose. So I tightened them and the problem has gone! Just to make sure I went for a 54km test drive. The test drive went well and there is no more "clunks".

So if you have a clunk on acceleration or regen then check your axle nuts!

Edit: in my last post I said I checked the axle bolts. But I only checked the 3 torque arm bolts. Not the big 27mm bolt.

------------------------------
eRider 8000w Scooter - PDT Version
72v 50AH CHL battery
350A Sevcon controller

24km: Delivered - 24 September 2011
2490km: Installed dual 35w HID lights Bi-Xenon Projectors - 27 November 2011
8313km: Installed BMS -

Klas2k
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Re: ERider 8000W scooter - Australia (similar to xm5000li)

Nice to hear that it was a cheap fix at least.
Any idea why they have become loose ?

Not enough torque to beign with, or maybe a poordesign and very much torque from the engine ? :)

/K

MEroller
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Re: ERider 8000W scooter - Australia (similar to xm5000li)

I would reckon that the obligatory check of the tightness of ALL nuts and bolts on the bike prior to delivery to the customer was not done by Erider Australia. A loose rear axle can easily end in a fiasco with damaged wiring! Good thing this problem was solved so easily :-) But I also second Klas' notion that maybe this motor is being driven slightly beyond it' s original design intent with the Sevcons or my more powerful Kelly conversion. Though Phil's fleet scooter was apparently downgraded severly with just 115A maximum current. That big Sevcon is good for far more than that, and even my original KEB72201 let loose up to 160A of battery current for a few moments during acceleration around 40km/h...

My rides:
2017 Zero S ZF6.5 11kW, erider Thunder 5kW

pcarlson1979
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Re: ERider 8000W scooter - Australia (similar to xm5000li)

I would reckon that the obligatory check of the tightness of ALL nuts and bolts on the bike prior to delivery to the customer was not done by Erider Australia.

The bike was fine for the first 1997km maybe it just vibrated loose?

A loose rear axle can easily end in a fiasco with damaged wiring!

I know! That's what happened to my 500w eBike hub motor. It torque rolled and bent the STEEL forks. I know use torque arms to stop this from happening again. I'm glad to see eRider had 4mm steel torque arms held with three 12mm bolts as standard!!

But I also second Klas' notion that maybe this motor is being driven slightly beyond it' s original design intent with the Sevcons

No? Mine seems to be held back quite a bit.

with just 115A maximum current.

If I'm lucky! Usually around 107 to 110A is normal. 115A on rare occasions.

That big Sevcon is good for far more than that

It's a monster being held down by software. But they've done that for a reason I guess. I wonder if they use field weakening?

------------------------------
eRider 8000w Scooter - PDT Version
72v 50AH CHL battery
350A Sevcon controller

24km: Delivered - 24 September 2011
2490km: Installed dual 35w HID lights Bi-Xenon Projectors - 27 November 2011
8313km: Installed BMS -

pcarlson1979
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Re: ERider 8000W scooter - Australia (similar to xm5000li)

I was so happy to have my silky smooth scooter back I went for a ride at 10pm last night. 70km later I come back home and happy to report all is well again. Next time a service schedule comes up, I'll check the axle nuts.

So I now have 2,230km

------------------------------
eRider 8000w Scooter - PDT Version
72v 50AH CHL battery
350A Sevcon controller

24km: Delivered - 24 September 2011
2490km: Installed dual 35w HID lights Bi-Xenon Projectors - 27 November 2011
8313km: Installed BMS -

LeftieBiker
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Re: ERider 8000W scooter - Australia (similar to xm5000li)

The E-scooter manufacturers are way behind the motorcycle industry in this area. A 30 year old Japanese bike will have axle nuts with locking pins to keep them tight, and locknuts on just about everything else. I haven't gotten into the nose of my ZEV yet, but I *hope* to find loose nuts holding the front forks in place...

MEroller
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Re: ERider 8000W scooter - Australia (similar to xm5000li)

I wonder if they use field weakening?

The Sevcon Gen 4 is capable of a limited amount of field weakening even in permanent magnet synchronous motors, or so I heard. Your top speed does indicate some trickery in that area, but I am sure PDT could enlighten us if they actually let the controller do that or not.
It is a real shame your bike is so heavily reined in. The reason I assume is that for the fleet version they set up the controller in light of a heavily laden delivery scooter having to constantly climb steep hills. If I had my "tuned" beast constantly stopping and accelerating on steep hills the motor leads would most likely start to fry their insulation. But I DON'T constatntly climb steep hills so my motor leads are safe. As PDT already indicated it is surely possible for Erider Australia to pimp your bike too, as Canberra is not really moutainous, only hilly.

My rides:
2017 Zero S ZF6.5 11kW, erider Thunder 5kW

pcarlson1979
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Re: ERider 8000W scooter - Australia (similar to xm5000li)

This is a photo of the big axle nut that was loose. Both this side and the other side were loose. There is no locking pin or locktite used at all. This is my first motorbike/scooter so I didn't even know bikes had locking pins. At least if the sound comes back then I know what to look for. There is a spring washer inbetween the nut and the hub motor.
axle nut.JPG

------------------------------
eRider 8000w Scooter - PDT Version
72v 50AH CHL battery
350A Sevcon controller

24km: Delivered - 24 September 2011
2490km: Installed dual 35w HID lights Bi-Xenon Projectors - 27 November 2011
8313km: Installed BMS -

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