Fast charging our scooters off SAE J1772 stations

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IBScootn
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Fast charging our scooters off SAE J1772 stations

Ok, check out: http://modularevpower.com/

J1772 to Nema 14-50 adapter

Looks like I should be able to take a hot, a neutral and ground off the Nema 14-50 plug and connect that to my 120v Nema 5-15 charger to charge by scooter.

-IBS

I have 2 of the http://modularevpower.com/ J1772 to NEMA 14-50 adpaters that are rated up to 50 Amps. Got prompt delivery, high quality units and both work flawlessly. No hassles.

The J1772 standard does not have a neutral connection:

The round 43 mm diameter connector has five pins, with 3 different pin sizes

AC Line 1 and AC Line 2 - have same size power pins
Ground Pin
Proximity Detection and Control Pilot - have same size pin
Proximity Detection - Prevents movement of the car while connected to the charger.

Control Pilot - Communication line used to coordinate charging level between the car and the charger as well as other information.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SAE_J1772

120V J1772 will have line conected to one of AC Line 1 pin and AC Line 2 pin and Neutral to the other for a 120V J1772 EVSE.

240V J1772 will have line 1 conected to one of AC Line 1 pin and AC Line 2 pin and Line 2 to the other for a 240V J1772 EVSE. There is no Neutral, so you CANNOT get 120V from a 240V J1772. Even if you do somnething dangerous, like use ground instead of neutral to get 120V, it won't work because the J1772 has a GFI that requires all the current on AC Line 1 to return through AC Line 2.

You also cannot get 120V from a 240V J1772 to NEMA 14-50 adapter or 240V Avcon to NEMA 14-50 adapter for the reasons above.

Also note that there is a grant in California to upgrade many of the Avcon stations to J1772. So it's best to get the Avcon station upgraded to J1772 and put a J1772 socket on your vehicle (or use a J1772 adapter if your vehicle needs that.) J1772 charging stations already far outnumber Avcons and the existing Avcons will likely be upgraded to J1772 in the coming year or so. The Avcon stations will not be maintained. If there's an Avcon you need to use and you have an Avcon adapter already or don't mind spending the money for an Avcon adpater that will be useless in a couple years, then you might get an Avcon adapter. You'll definitely want a J1772 connector (assuming you can deal with the J1772 being 120V or 240V, but not both from the same charging station.)

EV,

Thanks for the clarification. Do you know whether the J1772 station is looking for good power factor from the load? The reason I ask is that I want to help design an inexpensive high current version of the "Freddy" charger, and I expect this design will be seen as a poor power factor load.

-IBS

IBScootn
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Re: Fast charging our scooters off SAE J1772 stations

Here's the link that made me think the J1772 had a neutral line available:

http://jackrickard.blogspot.com/2011/01/j1772-2009-charging-for-your-ev.html

I see the "neutral" is really just the GND line. Still the blog article has some good info.

My game plan is to buy one of the modularevpower cables, add Jacks resistive control switch, and hook that to an inexpensive 30A 240V charger for 40AH cells, or 45A 240V charger for 60AH cells. GBS cells have a recommended charge rate of .3-.8C, so the above charge rates should be fine. It sure would be wonderful to get a quick opportunity charge at one third the normal charging time for my bike (normal 10A charge rate isn't an issue for home charging).

One thing I have to look into is how much current my BMS can handle, as it seems the charging current is controlled by the BMS (i.e. HVC cuts charging current). I don't want to over load the BMS relays.

-IBS

Motorcycles: 2011 ZEV Trail 7100, 84V, 60AH, 60+mph, Cycle Analyst, TNC throttle, modified charger. 2013 Kymco GT300i
Bicycles: 2017 Sondors Thin
Cars: 2016 Leaf SV, 30KWH pack. 2007 CR-V
Solar array: 5KW. Cost per lifetime KWH produced $0.073
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Ebikeparts
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Re: Fast charging our scooters off SAE J1772 stations

no picture?

conversion kit-030-1.JPG

Kevin

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http://www.b-t-n.cn/ www.b-t-n.org

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reikiman
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Re: Fast charging our scooters off SAE J1772 stations

I'd take things he says with appropriately large chunks of salt. He's the one who's been preaching for years you shouldn't have a BMS on lithium packs .. because ..? Maybe he likes killing cells?

The piece had a couple useful snippets of data but surrounded by unnecessary rants and one bad bit of advice. He says he uses a NEMA 5-15 plug on his cars, and sends voltages up to 240v through the plug. Right. I'd rather he standardize on a plug that's built for more amps such as the NEMA 6-20 I'm using on my car.

The basic idea is sound, have one socket on your vehicle - then build conversion cables to adapt from the various plugs you find on your travels, to adapt it to the one socket on your vehicle. Good idea, I'm doing it myself. As he says it's technically a code violation to send 240v through a 120v socket and obviously he thinks he's got his situation under control. I somewhat agree and am doing the same on my car. Where I diverge from him is his plan to use a plug/socket rated for 15A with higher amperages than 15A. There are plug/socket's readily available for higher amps. He said his plugs get warm, and they wouldn't get warm if he used ones with higher ratings.

The question about charging 40AH cells at 30A rate .. etc .. is whether the cells can withstand that charge rate. If they can, that's great, go for it.

As for "inexpensive 30A 240v charger" .. uh ..? The biggest Elcon charger is their PFC5000, does 24A 240v, it's a relatively large box, bigger than I'd want to carry on a motorcycle, and costs close to $2000. What do you have in mind?

IBScootn
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Re: Fast charging our scooters off SAE J1772 stations

GBS 40AH cell recommended charge rate is .8C or 32A max. Elcon PFC2500 is $540 and can be set for 72V @ 25A max. That will work for me, but instead of using a standard charger I would like to modify the Freddy charger to produce 30A constant current. But I need to find out first if the J1772 will take a poor PF load like a Freddy charger. If yes, it would be a perfect low cost, light weight solution for fast charging my lithium scooter.

But a Freddy charger isn't idiot proof, so for most folks a standard charger would be the better solution.

Motorcycles: 2011 ZEV Trail 7100, 84V, 60AH, 60+mph, Cycle Analyst, TNC throttle, modified charger. 2013 Kymco GT300i
Bicycles: 2017 Sondors Thin
Cars: 2016 Leaf SV, 30KWH pack. 2007 CR-V
Solar array: 5KW. Cost per lifetime KWH produced $0.073
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Iccarus
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Re: Fast charging our scooters off SAE J1772 stations

I just carry a book, to keep me occupied when charging. I highly recommend it : )
Not a bad idea though, to have a quick charger for the road, and a slow one for home.
So no regen braking on the zev?

2008 XM3500li Mods/Kelly KBL12251/84v 28cell 40AH pack/ Variable regen brake trigger on left brake handle/Givi/Cycle Analyst/Homemade BMS

KMX Typhoon Home build (recumbent pedelec) with two Astro Brushless 3220motors/twin castle Phoenix ICEHV 160/ Cycl

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