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Lets define some of those for your average LiFePO4 cell:
Over charge:
over 4.2v is over charge
3.65v @ 0.05C is not, *but* 3.65v @ below 0.05C is
so if the charge current is below 1.5A for the 30A cells and current reaches 3.65v, you are overcharging
overdischarge:
below 2V (you can actually do this even while at full charge)
over heating:
the solvent starts breaking down at 65 deg C
usually either the ambient temp is near that value, or the cell has already failed in another way
temp rise becomes almost non-existant once the cell temperature reaches 45 deg C
My old TS 40Ah cells would happily pump at 80A @ 3.2v when the cell temperature was around 50 deg C
I would point to overcharge while balancing as the culprit here
Matt
Daily Ride:
2007 Vectrix, modified with 42 x Thundersky 60Ah in July 2010. Done 194'000km
@jprates
Don't get me wrong. I agree with most of what you say. I don't pretend you did wrong or lie or etc.
The only thing I disagree with is encouraging people to do equalization charges as often as possible. I did the opposite. I unplug the bike when all bars are full and charging current at 0,5A. I takes 3,5 hours and temps are low. Antiscab tend to agree with this.
Yesterday night, for the sake of testing again, I did a full charge. It is summer. Charge took long. Some cells stayed at 3.65 for 6 hours waiting for others. Temps went up to 45 °C measured by sensor (what is the temp of the solvent inside ? ). In the morning, I checked voltages : Hi 3.49, Low 3,38, Voltage 139v. About the exact same result as when I interrupt. That is why I would recommend, waiting for the new soft, to prevent from overheat cells.
João:
Having more money than sense, I've had Vectrix upgrade my 2007 with the Li batteries--I got it back last week. They claim that they loaded it with the latest firmware, but I'm wondering if there's any way to verify that. Do you know a way to identify the latest firmware?
Thanks,
Ron
When you plug in the bike you should see CC 140 in the center display. The charge will end at 140V or 3.5V/cell. So Hi/Lo cell readings during EQ should peak at 3.5V.
Great--I believe that's what I saw this morning when I plugged it in. Thanks!
Apart from using the Vectrix diagnostic software I don't know of a way to do it Ron, I would take X-Vectrix info, he knows what he's saying.
Anyway I still don't have my bike back. Yet another problem on my Vectrix prevented the importer from returning the bike to me.
Basically I noticed that riding the replacement bike they lent me (a NiMH) was much smoother than my Li+. A lot more smooth.
I passed on this information to my importer, and upon inspection they declared my bike's transmission as being too rough.
While replacing the tire, and with the wheel off, they had to push very hard for the transmission to revolve.
As a result they activated the warranty once again, and once again here I am waiting for parts to arrive from Poland.
My only consolation is that Toyota in Portugal has given me a Prius PHV for an extended test drive (1 month) to write some articles about it in Prius-PT.com, and therefore I don't miss the Vectrix at all... In fact I'm beginning to think about selling it.
I never had any vehicle of any kind or maker that was so problematic as the Vectrix. It's probably time to wake up and sell it to some adventurous soul.
jprates
Toyota is Toyota!!!!!
Is there any way to avoid the long equalization other than unplugging?
AZvectrix..how long is long? My 42Ahr pack normally takes less than an hour to EQ once the first cell hits 3.5V during constant voltage mode. My one way commute is 36 miles, 32 being on the hiway, so I run them down pretty good twice a day. If you always unplug during EQ, the EQ cycles will get longer and longer (assuming you eventually let it EQ). Is there any reason you dont want it to EQ?
Frankly, this was the first time I've charged it, after a first ride of 20 miles. It was still charging when I got home 10 hours later, and I just assumed, on the basis of previous posts, that this was a typical equalization period. So your advice is just to let it complete its charging cycle whenever possible?
Mr. X:
Is there a way to get the temperature and high/low-voltage readouts when not charging?
Thanks,
Ron
So I went for a short ride on a full charge, using up two bars' worth. I got home and plugged in. The two bars get replenished pretty quickly. 24 hours later, it was still running the equalization, with high at 3.51 and low at 3.34. Is this cause for concern?
Thanks,
Ron
I'm bumping this in hopes of getting a response. I've e-mailed Dana DeCosta, but he hasn't responded either...
azvectrix....not yet. What was the EQ status prior to the ride? Also, what is the current during the EQ cycle? It should be around 300mA or 3 on the speedo. If its lower (like 1) then there could be a problem with one of the discharge resistors not turning ON. If a cell is at 3.5V and its resistor is not turning on, the charger will compensate by reducing the current to keep the cell at 3.5V.
Do you normally allow it to EQ during a charge?
Thanks for the response. I won't panic yet--this is only the second equalization I've attempted. I'll keep an eye on that current the next time.
Hi. I had / have the same « problem » with my Li+.
As I come home late usually (08 PM) and leave quite early in the morning (07:15 AM), my machine never has a chance to EQ.
As time goes by, charges took more and more time.
I decided to do an EQ during the week end and then an other one. I took 18 hours and more.
The I did EQ charges not from empty but from 75 % charged. It took 6 hours.
After a couple of EQ charges more, now it takes a reasonable 6 hours or so to do a full charge from empty to EQ.
I never do a long charge in the direct sun nor if it is a hot day.
I usually do EQ when temps don't go up 40°C in any cell.
I think the less you do EQ the longer it takes. (But, it is my personal opinion : I try to avoid long charges when it is hot, I prefere slight imbalance over long hot temp in cells waiting for EQ and disipating heat).
My Vectrix LI+ is a year old and my soft goes up to 3.65v in each cell (and not 3.50v).
Any updates wether the problem is solved now?
I just read a blog post where it mentions there are still problems in Paris...
Link-1
On another post on the same blog there is an interesting statement regarding bottom balancing.
I would love to hear some reactions from the experts here!
Link-2
Once you go EV, Gas is history!
Hi Kingcharles,
I got my bike back on Sept 26th, but unfortunately I had my first bike accident ever, soon after on 17th October, so not much time yet to say something about the behaviour. See http://prius-pt.com/cafe/forums/p/3503/36105.aspx#36105 for photos of how the bike got after it.
From what I saw in less than one month it all matches what X-Vectrix has told us here, and my charges did not take long.
What I did notice was a noticeable loss of power, i.e. the max current delivered to the motor has been greatly reduced.
The range is also far from what was advertised. At constant 90 km/h speed you get about 60 km of range, perhaps 70 if you're lucky.
All in all the bike is far from what was advertised, very far indeed, perhaps within the scope of what was advertised for the standard Li version.
I hope that at least with such a conservative config the batteries will last longer... let's hope so.
After the accident, not a serious one but enough to break my headlight and other minor damage, I requested price for the parts and had to wait for 1 week.
Then I ordered the headlight and the inner black cover behind the front wheel and I'm still waiting for it, another week has passed.
It is so frustrating to depend on their service, it is so bad, I think it's the worst part of Vectrix, hard as it is to choose the worst of the worst.
jprates
I hope no injuries!
Parts delivery has been terrible from day one. I had to wait for parts after a small accident for 3 months...
So be prepared for a long wait
Once you go EV, Gas is history!
After letting my Vectrix equalize for about 60 hours, and seeing that the low-voltage reading was only 3.35, I finally convinced Vectrix USA that my pack had a problem. Now, after reading this, I wonder if I've caused even more damage.
Even so, I've been very happy with the range.
Thanks. Yes indeed I was lucky, and since it was raining I was going slow, about 40 km/h, just bumped into the car in front of me cause the lady driving decided to do an emergency brake with no reason... I was the one to blame anyhow since I was driving too close to her. My bad.
I talked to the importer last friday and he told me that "your dealer asked for the price of the parts but did not submit any order at all".
You can imagine how happy I am that I was waiting for 2 weeks now for something that was not even ordered... Argh!
They told me they are about to receive headlights for stock, so I can get one fast next week, but it will be harder with the other parts.
Let's wait and see. With the headlight I can at least start using the bike again.
jprates
Parts delivery was no problem in my case. I needed a few body parts, a runke charger and a few days ago a new master brake cylinder because the old one was leaking.
I ordered them always directly from Vectrix Deutschland in Berlin. I never had to wait more than 4 days for one part, which is OK.
The next dealer is to far away from me (250km), so ordering parts directly is always the better option for me.
Best regards
Tido
Mirabile dictu, my Vectrix finally equalized! This last 12-hour session did it. It certainly took long enough...
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