Starting sequence fail--everything else fine

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geomoo
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Joined: 03/31/2012
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This is probably explained in incredible detail somewhere, because my search skills are terrible. This is a very frustrating problem, because I think it's a small one, but right no it's fatal. The GO will not appear even though everything else seems fine. I have had it no work once, or even twice in a row a few times, but it always worked by the third try. Now it will not work no matter what procedure I follow.

This is my first serious issue with my VX-1. I installed The Laird's brilliant software update last spring, and it has been working flawlessly. I have lost some range--I think I know when I drained it too low--but that has been stable for over two years. The thing is, and I'm delaying telling this embarrassing bit--I dropped the bike on the ground while trying to park it in sandy soil. I was trying to sue the new two-point kickstand that I haven't gotten a handle on yet. It dropped on the right side. It started after that, but the next time I went to use it, after an early-morning charge, I could not get it to start. Is there any info on this? Is there a physical switch somewhere? Please I hope someone has information on this.

Thanks for any help. I was relieved to see interest in Vectix still going strong among some. I love this motorcycle.

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Domi422
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Re: Starting sequence fail--everything else fine

Maybe something has gone wrong with the side stand sensor? Have you checked if the side stand warning is lit on the dashboard while trying the starting sequence?

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ofx210p
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Re: Starting sequence fail--everything else fine

has the throttle gone out of range ?

turn bike on
turn off kill switch
hold in left brake

when throttle is untouched, speedo should show around 43kmh and should go up and down according to actions

see if that is functioning to begin with as the throttle is definatley a weak point when the bikes get dropped on the right side.

Obviously if the throttle isnt working - GO wont be achievable.

hope this helps as a starting position.

Mik
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Re: Starting sequence fail--everything else fine

If just one of the brake light sensors does not work, then "GO" will not appear.

To check this, turn on the scooter, then pull one brake lever at a time and check if the brake light comes on.

Hopefully it's just a loose cable on the brake connector.

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myvectrix2008
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Re: Starting sequence fail--everything else fine

I had this problem before and was advised to check the brake levers and associated connectors too. This was a good tip, but wasn't the issue.

Earlier in the day, I accidentally knocked my Vectrix against a wall whilst trying to get used to the new centre stand I had fitted. It only seemed like a gentle touch, but it was enough to damage the regen. throttle sensor.

That was back in August 2011 and since the new sensor was fitted, it's been fine.

geomoo
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Re: Starting sequence fail--everything else fine

This site is teh awesome. Where would I be without it? Thanks, Domi422, ofx210p, and Mik.

So, you guys all nailed it, I think. First the throttle: with the bike on and the left brake engaged, there is no response to the throttle, but I do wonder whether this is something that the laird's software changes. Can anyone confirm that the dash should respond to the throttle in that condition?

The brake light tells the tale, however. When I engage the left brake, the brake light comes on--goes off when I release. When I engage the right brake, no light. When I jiggle the brake connector right at the connection to the right brake lever, the light comes on and stays on, still no responding to the lever. The "Go" light does not light up even with the right brake light permanently on. There clearly is an issue with the cable connecting to the brake, but I would have guessed that the cable is either shorted or connected. I don't understand how moving the cable turns the brake light on or off completely independent of the brake lever. This makes me wonder whether there is another problem in addition to the cable, or perhaps the issue is the switch the cable connects to rather than the cable itself?

So, I don't if I mentioned that I'm mechanically a little slow. Does this mean taking apart the right brake lever, box, and cable and having a look-see? Is there a switch that may be implicated as well? I guess I repair the brake cable first and see what happens, right? Then if the issue persists, move on to switches and the throttle.

At least it looks like a minor and easily fixable problem. What a relief. Thanks again.

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Mik
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Re: Starting sequence fail--everything else fine

Try this to get to "GO":

Turn on key with kill switch in the "ON" position.
Pull left brake lever.
Wiggle right brake light cable.

Let us know how it goes.

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Drew
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Re: Starting sequence fail--everything else fine

I agree with Mik. Both the brake switching functions need to be detected in the right sequence. If the switches are failing for any reason (muck inside/furring/out-of adjustment/wear) then the sequence you go through to get the GO indicator might not 'reach' the controller. A simple way to get round the faulty switch function (for testing purposes) is to remove the rubber boots (on on left, on on right lever) that protect the switch terminals, pull the crimps off the switch terminals and then short the terminals together in the correct sequence..

This is as follows (as seen from riding position)

Switch bike on at keys

Ready light flashes

Side stand up, check side stand light goes out

Ready light steady (on)

Short left terminals and hold together (brake light on)

Momentarily short right terminals (GO symbol should appear)

Release left terminals

Bike should ride as normal (for test purposes)

Hopefully this should help with the diagnosis

Best wishes,

Drew

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geomoo
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Re: Starting sequence fail--everything else fine

Bingo! Jiggled the right brake cable and the GO light comes on. The throttle seems to work as normal, just giving it a little test forward and back. So, I guess this narrows the issue right down to likely a simple connection at the switch. I'll be looking in there later today.

Am I right to assume that this is simply an electrical issue which has no implications for braking?

And Drew, thanks for that smart suggestion for testing as well. Thanks to everyone.

I'll let you know if I get confused when I start looking into connections, switches, brake lever and such.

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geomoo
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Re: Starting sequence fail--everything else fine

I wish everything were this easy. Simply slid the rubber protector off the connection, crimped the connectors down a tad to get a little friction, and it looks like I'm back in business. All systems go, situation normal, success.

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kingcharles
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Re: Starting sequence fail--everything else fine

That success may be temporary. Have a look at the picture in this thread.
Your brake switch plunger is probably worn a bit. You can either replace the switch or as shown in the picture tap a bolt in the brake handle.

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geomoo
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Re: Starting sequence fail--everything else fine

Thanks for that, kingcharles. That is good information. I bookmarked it in case.

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myvectrix2008
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Re: Starting sequence fail--everything else fine

Haven't used my Vectrix for a few months. Every couple of weeks, I switch it on, run it briefly on the centre stand and check battery voltage, the operation of the headlamp, indicators, brake lights, etc.

Today, after checking and inflating the tyres, I can no longer get the 'GO' symbol to show up. The turn on and boot up is fine and I get the 'READY', but when I press the right brake lever, I see the 'GO' for a split second before the bike returns to the ready state.

This did happen a few weeks ago, but worked fine after a few attempts. I have checked the throttle calibration, which was slightly off by maybe 1 or 2 digits, but is now spot on. Also tried wiggling the only small part of the brake cable that I can see. Both brake levers operate the brake lights normally, although I have noticed the left one is a bit loose and wobbles a bit, which does make the brake light flicker whenever it's wobbled about.

Any ideas what my next steps to try? The standing voltage is steady at 125V at the moment, but the battery gauge is well out of sync, so ideally would like to do a brief ride and gentle discharge to the red light to reset the gauge.

---

Update: Decided to partially recharge to bring the voltage up. Although I can plug in and the bike boots up and appears to start charging, there is no voltage displayed on the left and the speedometer needle does not move up to indicate how many amps are being drawn. What's going on?

Here's what happens:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t7AJoUXlzxE

kingcharles
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Re: Starting sequence fail--everything else fine

The bars in the battery gauge go up and down which may indicate that they are showing voltage rather than state of charge.
If this is true than your charger may be broken.
But if you are lucky it just needs a reset. Try that first.

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ofx210p
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Re: Starting sequence fail--everything else fine

To reset (with power off mains and bike) reach up under the front left of the bike (looking from the front) and there are two clipped plugs.
Unclip
pull out
wait 10 seconds
push in
re-clip

To be honest i've never found a vectrix that doesnt scrape my hands up trying to get these buggers back in. However that will reset your charger.

To reset the bike you need to unplug the main anderson connectors on top of the battery pack. This i can usually get to within 8-10 mins and you can often (although not recommended) do a really quick disconnect / reconnect within a second or two so the caps dont discharge. Otherwise any longer and it is fully recommended that you use the Inrush protection device.

Hope this helps

myvectrix2008
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Re: Starting sequence fail--everything else fine

Thanks for the suggestions given so far.

I'm not all that confident in dealing with Vectrix electronics and my hands are neither small or delicate enough to go exploring.

I have been in touch with David at Emissions Free Solutions, tried a few suggestions (including resetting the ICM). Outcome is I will be getting a vist next week to hopefully resolve the issues.

I will update this thread once I have the solution(s) as it may help out others in the future.

X Vectrix
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Points: 297
Re: Starting sequence fail--everything else fine

The charger has lost CAN communication. It could be as simple as one of the wires to the connector pulled out or the charger control PCB has died. The MC is controlling the dash fuel gauge and displaying pack voltage as noted above.

R
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Re: Starting sequence fail--everything else fine

Hi X,
When the PCB dies, is it possible to buy a New PCB board instead of buying the entire charger?

X Vectrix
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Points: 297
Re: Starting sequence fail--everything else fine

R
If you can find someone that has one, yes. I know there were alot of spare charger daughter boards when the V went under. Where they are now is anyones guess. Maybe the polish guys have them. If you get one I can help getting the bootloader in it.
If its the charger 12V DC/DC that is bad then its a little more complicated. That is on the motherboard.

myvectrix2008
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Re: Starting sequence fail--everything else fine

Quick update on my situation. Problem has been diagnosed today by David at Emissions Free Solutions.

Starting sequence fail ('GO' flashes up but not staying on), caused by dirt on the Encoder. Both brake levers, side stand, kill switch all working OK.

Charging fail (boots up, fans come on, stops charging and switches off after approx. 5 seconds). Caused by a 'thermal event' from the rear temperature sensor which also melted the wiring, also possibilty causing the front temperature sensor to fail and has also killed the charger (silver type ESD) in the process.

VX-1 assembled October 2007, first registered new in September 2008, over 7 years old, first major issue out of warranty since new.

Replacement charger, with 1 or 2 temperature sensors being fitted later this month.


myvectrix2008
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Re: Starting sequence fail--everything else fine

After a replacement charger and 2 new temperature sensors, my Vectrix VX-1 is back in good working order. It now charges, goes forwards and backwards and there are no more error codes or warning lights!

Thanks to David at Emissions Free Solutions for diagnosing and carrying out the work.

Here's a closer look at the culprit that caused the issue and killed my charger too.


R
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Re: Starting sequence fail--everything else fine

Good job David, he is proving to be very helpful!

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