Mennekes type 2 plug officially not for Vectrix?

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1charan
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Mennekes type 2 plug officially not for Vectrix?

Hi All,

My e-mail to the makers of the Mennekes Type 2 charging plug:

-------------------------------------------------------------
Hello Mennekes,
My e-bike is a highway capable Vectrix scooter. It has a standard Dutch Schuko plug at the end of the powercord. In Amsterdam all charging stations use the Mennekes Type 2 connector. On your website I have found SCHUKO®/grounding type Part no. *35050 but I need the opposite. On the Vectrix/electric rides forum I find a lot of people with the same problem. So there is potential for this kind of cable.
Question: Is it possible to build a charging power cord that uses the Mennekes Type 2 connector for connecting to the charging station, and a contra-Schuko for the motorcycle side of the charging cord? And where can I get it?
Thanks for your time,

-------------------------------------------------------------

and this is their answer:

-------------------------------------------------------------
Dear Mr.
we produce different types of charging cable according the standards. You find our portfolio on our web page.
You ask for a product which is not according the standard. So we do not produce it and we can't offer it to you.
For mode 3 charging in generell there is a communation between vehicle and charging station necessary.
So it is not allowed and not possible to use Schuko these charging stations.
Mit freundlichen Grüßen / Kind regards
i. A. Christoph Lübke
Product Manager Charging Systems / Sales Manager Infrastructure

-------------------------------------------------------------

It seems impossible but: Does anyone know whether it is possible to charge a Vectrix from a Mennekes charging point?

Thanks,

Charan
Netherlands

martinwinlow
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Re: Mennekes type 2 plug officially not for Vectrix?

Where did he get the impression you want to charge at Level3? Why don't these companies employ ex-engineers as their sales-people so they have at least SOME idea what they are blathering about?

(Rant over...)

Have a look here...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FK56l_v87jk&feature=youtu.be

... which appears to describe what you (and I) want to do. I have obtained a mennekes plug from http://uk.farnell.com/jsp/search/productdetail.jsp?CMP=i-ddd7-00001003&sku=2066617
for £90 but have not put the cable together yet. So, don't blame me if it doesn't work!

Good luck. MW

Regards, Martin Winlow
Isle of Colonsay, Scotland
evalbum.com/2092

tt-tronix
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Re: Mennekes type 2 plug officially not for Vectrix?

Hello Charan,

have a look here:
http://www.grossrollerteile.de/shop/index.php/cat/c1107_ELEKTRO.html/XTCsid/68cf14ebca0baee04fa3a2308ee74d8a

Here you can buy several adapter cables for your Vectrix. And yes, it is possible to charge on a Mennekes charging point but only one of three phases (230V) is needed.

Tip: Be sure to buy a long adapter cable so you can lock the Schuko connection in the trunk. Mine looks like this:

The switch is for locking the connection between the cable and the charging point.

Tido

kingcharles
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Re: Mennekes type 2 plug officially not for Vectrix?

You will need also a communication box for communication with the chargepoint. Just the cable won't work in The Netherlands. I have bought a Vectrix cable from Oscar Motorservice and it works great on all Dutch public charge points (lolo, evbox, e-laad, etc.) I tried most already. Here you can find a link to a picture of my cable.
It's an expensive part though, I paid nearly 300 Euro!

Once you go EV, Gas is history!

tt-tronix
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Re: Mennekes type 2 plug officially not for Vectrix?

You will need also a communication box for communication with the chargepoint. Just the cable won't work in The Netherlands.

Did you look inside the 'communication box'? My communication box consists of a few resistors, a diode and a switch - like this one:

The only difference is, that I only need one of three phases....

If you have a 'real' communication pcb in the box - would you mind taking a photo of it?

Tido

martinwinlow
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Re: Mennekes type 2 plug officially not for Vectrix?

There is no 'communication' in a digital electronics sense - it's all done with passive components. The 880 ohm resister, diode and switch tell the EVSE (charge point, post, whatever) to lock the plug and commence charging and opening the switch unlocks the plug when charging is complete to allow the plug to be withdrawn. I'm guessing not all EVSEs will have this locking mechanism. The Rpp resistor defines the maximum charge current the EVSE will supply - 1k5 (1500) ohms for 16A and 680 ohm for 20A. It also provides a current path for the GFI in the EVSE should the cable be cut (apparently) to switch off the charger and prevent live cut cable ends flapping about.

The shop in the other post sells the appropriate cable for Dutch users for around 200 euros. I think you could make one for about 120 euros at current prices - I expect the 'Typ 2' mennekes plug price will fall quite quickly of the next 12 months or so and is by far the principle cost at around 90 euros. You can get 16A or 32A versions - the former is about 10 euros cheaper.

I plan to put a little DIY guide on my website soon detailing all parts required and where to get them as well as offer ready made cables for the UK for sale. MW

Regards, Martin Winlow
Isle of Colonsay, Scotland
evalbum.com/2092

1charan
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Re: Mennekes type 2 plug officially not for Vectrix?

Hi all, thanks for your quick reply. I posted this because of the official look it had. If Mennekes themselves say it can not be done, then who are we to say otherwise? Appearently a couple of very practical technicians.

Thanks for the pointers to the German and British suppliers of the plug. Yes, it is by far the most expensive part. Here in NL a dealer can supply me with a complete charge cord for 284 euro's. That is way too expensive. The German site has a DIY set for 169 euro's. The plug itself is 96 euro's plus tax! from Farnell. I think I'll go for the DIY, and maybe solder them together for others in NL who don't want to do it themselves.

The charging points in Amsterdam lock the connector when you swipe your chargecard, and unlock only when the chargecard is swiped again. So cutting the cord/opening a switch, is not enough to unlock the connector. I like the word chargecard here.

Charan
Krommenie
NL

jumpjack
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Re: Mennekes type 2 plug officially not for Vectrix?

I read that within a few months here in Italy no more SCAME-equipped EVSEs will be available, only Mennekes-equipped. ( www.e-station-store.it )
My e-scooter charges through a standard shucko plug, or through a shucko-SCAME adapter built by myself for a few bucks (I had SCAME plug for free, but I think it costs around 20 euros, and the needed internal diode&resistor costs 2 euros).
So, now what?
How am I going to publicly recharge my scooter in Italy?
How do all European e-scooter owners are going to solve the shucko-mennekes issue?!?

kingcharles
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Re: Mennekes type 2 plug officially not for Vectrix?

I bought an adapter for the mennekes sockets a few years ago. It was almost 300 euro at that time but I use it every day now!

Once you go EV, Gas is history!

bm3
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Re: Mennekes type 2 plug officially not for Vectrix?

Hi,
one can build easy an adapter to every type of connector one wants with the wiring diagram that Tido posted.
If you need only one AC phase you take only one.
Costs are with the Type 2 connector of Dostar instead of the Mennekes here in Germany and with DIY below € 100.
An external switch or a reed contact inside the connector is necessary to unlock the connector again after charging.

Klaus

jumpjack
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Re: Mennekes type 2 plug officially not for Vectrix?

What do I need to pull just 500W from an EVSE equipped only with Mennekes inlet? My ebike charger requires just a few amperes.
I currently use a SCAME plug containing a resistor and a diode; as far as I can understand, for such a small amount of amperes also Mennekes works that way, but I need detailed specifications on What&How to connect.

The plug could be also sefl-printed with a 3d printer; I was only able to find 3d model for inlet ( https://www.shapeways.com/model/1372776/j1772-inlet-cleaned-with-latch-and-angle-repaired.html?li=shop-results&materialId=6) , but getting the plug from it shouldn't be that hard; hard part will be creating the metal pins!
Printing it on shapeways costs around 50 euros.

jumpjack
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Re: Mennekes type 2 plug officially not for Vectrix?

What do I need to pull just 500W from an EVSE equipped only with Mennekes inlet? My ebike charger requires just a few amperes.
I currently use a SCAME plug containing a resistor and a diode; as far as I can understand, for such a small amount of amperes also Mennekes works that way, but I need detailed specifications on What&How to connect.

The plug could be also sefl-printed with a 3d printer; I was only able to find 3d model for inlet ( https://www.shapeways.com/model/1372776/j1772-inlet-cleaned-with-latch-and-angle-repaired.html?li=shop-results&materialId=6) , but getting the plug from it shouldn't be that hard; hard part will be creating the metal pins!
Printing it on shapeways costs around 50 euros.

martinwinlow
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Re: Mennekes type 2 plug officially not for Vectrix?

Well, you could buy one of my converter cables… £160 inc p&p (UK - you don't say where you are).

IMG_2281.jpg

PM me if you are interested. MW

Regards, Martin Winlow
Isle of Colonsay, Scotland
evalbum.com/2092

jumpjack
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Re: Mennekes type 2 plug officially not for Vectrix?

Sure, I'll give you 160 pounds as soon as you explain us why a piece of plastic, 4 resistors and two microcircuits (10 pounds total) should cost 160 pounds to me.

jumpjack
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Re: Mennekes type 2 plug officially not for Vectrix?

[double post]

martinwinlow
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Re: Mennekes type 2 plug officially not for Vectrix?

Because I know how it all goes together? Why should I (or anyone else, for that matter) spend hours researching a problem and hours more finding a solution to then just give it away? The Mennekes plug and cable is well over £100 before you even start. Anyway, you can buy my cable if you want… or not. I'm sure you can figure it out if you want. All the info you need is in this thread. MW

Regards, Martin Winlow
Isle of Colonsay, Scotland
evalbum.com/2092

jumpjack
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Re: Mennekes type 2 plug officially not for Vectrix?

Why should I (or anyone else, for that matter) spend hours researching a problem and hours more finding a solution to then just give it away?

Why not?
http://jumpjack.wordpress.com/2014/04/19/schema-elettrico-circuiteria-di-controllo-spina-mennekes-vde-tipo-2-per-ricarica-auto-e...

Just a few hours since I asked. ;-)

But above all... why asking 160 pounds rather than 100 or 50 w.r.t. 10 pounds of materials?
And why does a bare mennekes VDE plug costs 100 pounds?!? Intellettual property I guess... at least until I will be able to build a 3d printable model and then bye bye Mennekes! :-)

MEroller
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Re: Mennekes type 2 plug officially not for Vectrix?

And why does a bare mennekes VDE plug costs 100 pounds?!? Intellettual property I guess...

On the contrary: Mennekes rather cunningly did not patent it's plug design which probably gave it the decisive advantage over the likes of the very tight-lipped Chademo consortium in the race for the European and eventually international standard quick-charging plug.

As for the high price that may stem from the most probably machined and highly precise contacts, plus it consists of loads of high-grade fiber reinforced plastic. And then of course at least half a dozen traders all add their premium before us folks get to buy one...

My rides:
2017 Zero S ZF6.5 11kW, erider Thunder 5kW

Ampy
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Re: Mennekes type 2 plug officially not for Vectrix?

To be fair to Martin I don't think the price of his cable is unreasonably high, particularly as that includes P&P, and no VAT.
In comparison Curtis charge £300 for a USB programming cable and then the Courier and VAT nearly add another £100 !

I've always wondered why these Chargepoint stations don't have a normal domestic socket so all the EV's that just use normal home plugs can use it directly. It would be minimal cost to have that as an output and many of the smaller EVs still charge from those!

jumpjack
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Re: Mennekes type 2 plug officially not for Vectrix?
jumpjack
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Re: Mennekes type 2 plug officially not for Vectrix?

To be fair to Martin I don't think the price of his cable is unreasonably high, particularly as that includes P&P, and no VAT.
In comparison Curtis charge £300 for a USB programming cable and then the Courier and VAT nearly add another £100 !
[/qoute]
My basic 3d model costs less than 40 euros.

I've always wondered why these Chargepoint stations don't have a normal domestic socket so all the EV's that just use normal home plugs can use it directly. It would be minimal cost to have that as an output and many of the smaller EVs still charge from those!

[/qoute]
Two reasones:
- people would fry upon attempting charging while raining
- people would use EVSE to use vacuum cleaners into their cars :-)

Johnny J
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Re: Mennekes type 2 plug officially not for Vectrix?
To be fair to Martin I don't think the price of his cable is unreasonably high, particularly as that includes P&P, and no VAT.
In comparison Curtis charge £300 for a USB programming cable and then the Courier and VAT nearly add another £100 !
[/qoute]
My basic 3d model costs less than 40 euros.

I've always wondered why these Chargepoint stations don't have a normal domestic socket so all the EV's that just use normal home plugs can use it directly. It would be minimal cost to have that as an output and many of the smaller EVs still charge from those!

[/qoute]
Two reasones:
- people would fry upon attempting charging while raining
- people would use EVSE to use vacuum cleaners into their cars :-)

Not true about the frying, in Sweden almost all charging stations also have normal European 16A Shuko sockets as a compliment. Of course the American unearthed variant would not be safe..

hempev
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Re: Mennekes type 2 plug officially not for Vectrix?
To be fair to Martin I don't think the price of his cable is unreasonably high, particularly as that includes P&P, and no VAT.
In comparison Curtis charge £300 for a USB programming cable and then the Courier and VAT nearly add another £100 !
[/qoute]
My basic 3d model costs less than 40 euros.

I've always wondered why these Chargepoint stations don't have a normal domestic socket so all the EV's that just use normal home plugs can use it directly. It would be minimal cost to have that as an output and many of the smaller EVs still charge from those!

[/qoute]
Two reasones:
- people would fry upon attempting charging while raining
- people would use EVSE to use vacuum cleaners into their cars :-)

Not true about the frying, in Sweden almost all charging stations also have normal European 16A Shuko sockets as a compliment. Of course the American unearthed variant would not be safe..

I've never heard of anyone suing because they plugged in at an RV park and got shocked, even in the wet-and-stupid areas of America. These establishments have parking spots fully exposed to the weather, but this is where many EV drivers traveling far afield would go to pay for a charge, at least in the previous century.

Ampy
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Re: Mennekes type 2 plug officially not for Vectrix?

Jumpjack do you own a 3D printer?
I think that is very interesting technology.
How much worth of plastic ribbon (or whatever its called) do you think it would use to 3D print that (in £'s)?

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Factory Manual for Vectrix? How to remove body panels

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JimmyB
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Re: Mennekes type 2 plug officially not for Vectrix?
To be fair to Martin I don't think the price of his cable is unreasonably high, particularly as that includes P&P, and no VAT.
In comparison Curtis charge £300 for a USB programming cable and then the Courier and VAT nearly add another £100 !
[/qoute]
My basic 3d model costs less than 40 euros.

I've always wondered why these Chargepoint stations don't have a normal domestic socket so all the EV's that just use normal home plugs can use it directly. It would be minimal cost to have that as an output and many of the smaller EVs still charge from those!

[/qoute]
Two reasones:
- people would fry upon attempting charging while raining
- people would use EVSE to use vacuum cleaners into their cars :-)

Not true about the frying, in Sweden almost all charging stations also have normal European 16A Shuko sockets as a compliment. Of course the American unearthed variant would not be safe..

Here in the Land of the Free I use 'Chargepoint' on-street charging stations on occasion. These all have an (earthed) 110v socket as well as the more fancy stuff.

martinwinlow
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Re: Mennekes type 2 plug officially not for Vectrix?

The cost of the 62196 plugs will come down in time like everything else does. I don't suppose they actually cost more than £20 or so in materials - one cost saving would be to use plastic pins for live phase 2 & 3 (which aren't used on the converter cables, obviously) or no pins at all. The'll be near £50 within a year or so I would imagine. MW

Regards, Martin Winlow
Isle of Colonsay, Scotland
evalbum.com/2092

martinwinlow
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Re: Factory Manual for Vectrix? How to remove body panels

Dan - Are you a new forum user?

Please don't hijack threads - create a new one.

A simple search on this forum would have supplied the answer to your question much more quickly.

But as I'm here… http://websd-vectrixscenecom.webs.com/WEBPROTECT-filesmembersonly.htm … but you do need to join - but it is instant and free. It is a compressed word file and quite big.

PM me if you get stuck. MW

Regards, Martin Winlow
Isle of Colonsay, Scotland
evalbum.com/2092

jumpjack
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Re: Mennekes type 2 plug officially not for Vectrix?

Jumpjack do you own a 3D printer?
I think that is very interesting technology.
How much worth of plastic ribbon (or whatever its called) do you think it would use to 3D print that (in £'s)?

I don't have any 3d printer, I use those sites (shapeways and sculpteo) to get my objects printed.
I don't even know the cost of the "3d ink" (more a wire than a ribbon).

The cost of the 62196 plugs will come down in time like everything else does.

Now that there is a freely downloadable model, by sure!

I don't suppose they actually cost more than £20 or so in materials

20? I'd say 5, given that my model costs 20£ to print (although it's just a part of the full plug), and online 3d printing is very epensive.

Ampy
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Re: Mennekes type 2 plug officially not for Vectrix?

Will be interesting to see if that fit if someone 3dprints it.
I notice the center hole on your model is not round but star shaped. Could that be an issue?

jumpjack
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Re: Mennekes type 2 plug officially not for Vectrix?

I found several different designs, I still have to figure out how they "work" and differ.
I also see holes on the sides in some designs,maybe needed to lock the plug, but no dimensions are provided!

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