XM5000 Reduced Range

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JeffDHood
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XM5000 Reduced Range

I can barely change a table lamp light bulb, so I'm not sure where to begin other than to ask if anyone has any suggestions on how I should try to get to the bottom of why my range has gone down so much in the last few months?

Spaceangel
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Re: XM5000 Reduced Range

What country are you in? How far was your original range? What is it now? If you are serious about selling maybe it would be better to sell individual cells or packs? My first eXtreme scooter died on the way home and never could get it fixed. I ended up stripping it down to frame and controller was bad I later found out. A year later I tried again and now I knew what to look for and again it was controller and two batteries died. After using some batteries from first bike and a new controller I was up and running again. Then DC-DC gave out a number of times. So I now use a 14 volt volt lithium pack to make my lights work. After that I tried XM-3100 and same thing happened. Same exact thing.
But one good thing came about second one. Some one wanted it more than me apparently. It disappeared off my truck. That finally burned me out on eXtreme scooters. Four scooters and only one sort of works. Now I am having brake problems. My last running scooter is tied down with two Xena alarms on both wheels and four mega cables to frame and each brake. I can't believe some one still tries to get it off my porch and every one got to know how expensive and electric is to repair. Batteries go for a couple of buck each and controller about 2 or 3 bucks. Most of the cost of a bike. Even tried to put in Thunder Sky yellow Lithium packs and when they went south I used them for radio use. Expensive hobby for scooters. My best range was 31 plus miles to dead. My average range was 18 - 21 miles. Now less than 10. Store and back is best for me. Once a year I use a new set of 12200 CSB battery packs then use them the following year in lawn mowers I have. Shipping of any vehicle is sort of expensive so parting out is best move. Plus there is a thingy on WWW some where for testing controllers. I got one and need to find it some day to try and make a spare bike.

KB1UKU

JeffDHood
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Re: XM5000 Reduced Range

Thank you Spaceangel! I'm in Kailua-Kona, HI USA. My original range was 80 miles, now it's 15-20 depending on hills and speed.

MEroller
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Re: XM5000 Reduced Range

Does it have a lead or Li-based Battery? How many miles / km have you driven it? In case of lead: have you recharged it DIRECTLY after each ride, or did you do several rides within one charge? How old (time-wise) is your ride / the battery?
In case of Lithium: Does your scooter have a Battery Management System (BMS) of sorts on board? How often did you ride it to dead empty? Those things (plus some more...) need to be known in order to give you some sort of long-distance analysis of what could be amiss...

My rides:
2017 Zero S ZF6.5 11kW, erider Thunder 5kW

PJD
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Re: XM5000 Reduced Range

Yes, I winced when he wrote 31 miles "to dead" because I believe that these X-Treme scooters have no sort of BMS. So, ride one of these scooter "to dead" just once and that's pretty much the end for the lithium cells.

Selling these scooters without a BMS, along with their breathtaking shoddyness even by Chinese standards, should be a crime.

IBScootn
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Re: XM5000 Reduced Range

I wouldn't give up on the XM-5000 if you know how to use a voltmeter. If not, then somebody is going to get a good deal from you and the following will be for somebody that does know how. It's too bad that many of these bikes are not suitable for the general public. Maybe you have a friend that is handy with a voltmeter.

If you can handle a voltmeter or willing to learn, I would take some 9-wire cables (maybe old serial cables or anything else)and wire up each set of 8 lithium cells to a Cell-Log 8m. So first 8 cells to a Cell-Log, next 8 cells to another Cell-Log, then the last 5 cells to a third Cell-Log. The Cell-Log documentation shows how to connect the 9 wires to the 8 cells.

The Cell-Log performs as a cheap BMS for your cells: displaying each cell's voltage and providing High/Low voltage alarms. Each Cell-Log costs about $14 from Hobbyking.com. You would plug the Cell-Logs in during charging for HVC or during riding to monitor LVC, but leave them disconnected while not using the bike as they do draw some current. After awhile you will determine which couple cells are the weakest and then use a single Cell-log to monitor them.

Some people get very lucky with their XM's if the battery cells are very well matched both in internal resistance and capacity. In those cases, they don't need a BMS as much as people who got random capacity cells in their bike. My guess is that your cells weren't matched that well and you prolly destroyed one or two cells taking them too low during discharge. New cells are fairly cheap at about $52/cell from: evolveelectrics.com

So I would get some Cell-Logs, wire them up, then determine which cells are your weakest and replace them.

Hmm, I've been to the other islands but never the big island. Might be tempted to help you out.

Motorcycles: 2011 ZEV Trail 7100, 84V, 60AH, 60+mph, Cycle Analyst, TNC throttle, modified charger. 2013 Kymco GT300i
Bicycles: 2017 Sondors Thin
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Johnny J
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Re: XM5000 Reduced Range

Here's what I did on my old 3500Li a couple of years ago: http://visforvoltage.org/forum/9219-some-upgrades-my-3500

JeffDHood
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Re: XM5000 Reduced Range

First of all, thank you for replying! Lithium ion. About 4000. Recharged after each ride. It's three years old. No BMS. Never ridden it to dead empty.

JeffDHood
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Re: XM5000 Reduced Range

First of all, thank you for replying! And thank you for your easy to understand advice. You make it sound pretty easy and yet I know myself to well to try it myself. With your explaination I feel confident I can find someone to do it. And yes, if you ever find yourself in Kona please look me up.

JeffDHood
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Re: XM5000 Reduced Range

Thank you for replying!

MEroller
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Re: XM5000 Reduced Range

First of all, thank you for replying! Lithium ion. About 4000. Recharged after each ride. It's three years old. No BMS. Never ridden it to dead empty.

That does sound like a completely out-of-balance battery then, and maybe even one or even few dead cells already. IBScootn's or even Johnny's advice seems to be the best to follow then, or that you have someone follow it whom your trust not to make a complete mess of your scooter ;-)

My rides:
2017 Zero S ZF6.5 11kW, erider Thunder 5kW

IBScootn
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Re: XM5000 Reduced Range

Good to hear that you might find someone to help you with your XM-5000Li.

You might check some of the more technical sites to find someone experienced with multiple-cell Lithium battery packs in your area. I remember a person named "helco" who was based in Kona on the elmoto.net site; but search these sties for people in your area:

This forum
Elmoto.net
Endless-sphere.com
http://www.evdl.org/archive/index.html

If no luck there, talk with a professor at the local college, he/she might know a appropriate student that can help or might be able to help out as a class project.

Check the local remote controll (RC) model club. Some of these folks are familiar with building multiple-cell lithium packs.

Local ebike dealer might know someone that can work with Thundersky lithium batteries.

Even a electric golf cart repairer might be able to help. Make sure they are familiar with Thundersky lithium batteries (LiFePO4).

Good luck,

Motorcycles: 2011 ZEV Trail 7100, 84V, 60AH, 60+mph, Cycle Analyst, TNC throttle, modified charger. 2013 Kymco GT300i
Bicycles: 2017 Sondors Thin
Cars: 2016 Leaf SV, 30KWH pack. 2007 CR-V
Solar array: 5KW. Cost per lifetime KWH produced $0.073
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JeffDHood
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Re: XM5000 Reduced Range

Thank you IBScootn! I'll work my way down your list of suggestions...

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