Hi All,
I have an unmodified 2008 Vectrix with (I'll have to check but fairly sure) the MC1021 controller firmware.
Went to get it out today and found the garage electrics were off - the auto up&over door wouldn't open and no lights. Found the distribution unit RCD had tripped. Start of a sinking feeling...
When I switched on the V it started normally but only half a charge. I didn't try the motor. I have my V connected to the mains (240V here in the UK) through a timer that comes on at midnight and goes off at 0700 - our 'Economy7' time. It appears that when the charger was last switched on (midnight Xmas eve) it died and tripped the RCB. No electric storms or other main issues. I tried unplugging the mains plug and plugging it in again without the timer and it tripped the mains again.
I didn't have time to investigate further as I had to get to work.
Q1... Has anyone else suffered a dead charger that tripped the mains? If so, did you discover what the failure mode was?
Q2... Has anyone managed to fix the old-style charger from either the blown fuse or blown resistor issue (or any other cause for that matter)?
I'll try unplugging the Hartman (?) connectors tomorrow to reset the charger but I think it unlikely that this will help in my case!
Anyone have any thoughts other than 'Happy Flaming Christmas'?
Regards, Martin Winlow.
tripping the RCD is unusual - that means there is a connection between the live and ground/earth
I wonder if water has made it's way in anywhere.....
Insulation failure is another possibility, I once had that problem.
For interest's sake, when you unplug the charger from the bike, try plugging the cable back into the power point.
If it trips again, your charger is probably fine and the cable is at fault.
If no trip - next step would be opening the charger
interesting that your garage has it's own RCD, normally its just a CB with an RCD that caters for the whole house.
a charger tripping a CB means it's dead (somethings short circuit, input rectifier or anything after)
Matt
Daily Ride:
2007 Vectrix, modified with 42 x Thundersky 60Ah in July 2010. Done 194'000km
There are new electrical installation requirements in place, possibly in the whole EU, that make an individual RCD mandatory for every line that leaves the house. When we had our garage and parking lot electricfied (in anticipation of my electric ride...) both the garage and the parking lot line got their own individual RCD (residual current device for the non-initiated). A cirucit braker is there too, of course.
My rides:
2017 Zero S ZF6.5 11kW, erider Thunder 5kW
Hi & thanks for the replies.
Yes, my Father-In-Law (also my electrician) did it that way to avoid an issue with the wiring - or anything connected to it - in the garage tripping anything in the house. It works! The only down-side is that I was blissfully unaware of my charger issue until yesterday tho with Xmas and all it wouldn't have made any difference to getting it mended any quicker.
Anyway, I had a bit of a tinker today. I tried the motor firstly, and it appears fine in forward and reverse - all normal.
Then I tried plugging in the charger again and it immediately tripped the mains. Next I unplugged the charger and switched the mains back on again and disconnected the Hartman (?) connectors to the charger. When plugged them back in after a good 5 minutes (it's a bit of a fiddle getting one of them back in) I tried powering up the charger and nothing - no charger and no mains tripping. Checked the charger plug fuse - blown - so replaced it and tried again. Again nothing. No trip and no charging.
Next I disconnected the earth wire in the charger mains plug and tried again. Still nothing. Then I measured the resistance across the charger mains plug pins in various combos...
Multimeter
Leads
+ve -ve
N L 30Meg ohms slowly reducing
L N " "
N E Open Circuit
E L 30Meg ohms slowly increasing to open circuit
L E " "
Didn't check the fuse again so I have to check that tomorrow to confirm the above are correct (ie not affected by a blown fuse - unlikely).
I have a PCAN cable and the diagnostic software which I haven't tried yet - even before my charger died. Is this likely to tell me anything... like error codes recorded when the charger died?
One thing I did remember, during the day before the charger failed I washed the bike very thoroughly with a bucket, sponge and low pressure hose. This is probably the first real wash I have given it (!) since I bought it second-hand 9 months (and 4k miles ago). I usually just give it a once over with a wet sponge. Something of a coincidence??
The good news is that I see a new Runke charger is listed on the http://www.vectrix.fr/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=107:prix-public-des-pieces-et-des-accessoires-vectrix&catid=9... website as £400 inc VAT. They also list a new front caliper at £120 and I got one from Emmisions Free Solutions (UK Vectrix dealer) for under £90 a few moths back. On this basis the charger should be around £350 - probably just wishful thinking.
Lastly, anyone got any offerings on a DIY charger replacement? I have the manual that is available from http://websd-vectrixscenecom.webs.com which I have used to adjust the headlight and seems pucker but I haven't had a chance to read it yet WRT changing the charger...
MW
Regards, Martin Winlow
Isle of Colonsay, Scotland
evalbum.com/2092
I would just get a runke, 400 quid is cheap compared to what the old ESD chargers used to cost
even bodging an elcon into working would cost 300 quid and is a pita
Matt
Daily Ride:
2007 Vectrix, modified with 42 x Thundersky 60Ah in July 2010. Done 194'000km
Well, my new charger (and DC/DC converter combined) cost £500 in the end but very efficient service by EFS.
Had a couple of hours on the V this afternoon installing it. All went well till I realized the 4 off 6mm bolts that secure the charger to the frame cannot be re-used (too long) and none came with the new Runke charger. They should be 6mm x 20 or 25's for future reference. Pictures of the Runke charger...
I attach a photo of what appears to be the matter with the old charger (the lid (top) with scorch mark is abutting the main charger box)...
... looks like a blown thermistor (current in-rush limiter). It has probably taken some silicon elsewhere in the vicinity with it but probably repairable. It would be nice to have a spare. Anyone have any suggestions for repair technique and test method - short of taking the new one off and putting the old one back in again?
I gather other Vectrix V1.0 chargers have suffered the same failure.
The Runke charger looks (and feels!) very solid and a much more sensible looking design than the old one.
MW
Regards, Martin Winlow
Isle of Colonsay, Scotland
evalbum.com/2092
Un update 1k'ish miles later... All going well with the new charger. The fans come on with the ignition whilst 'Ready' is flashing. Otherwise it seems unchanged.
Aside from that I'll have to strip down the battery pack soon as my 18 mile commute is getting a bit marginal now. Perhaps it's just the cold but it might be wise to check for duff cells and replace them anyway.
Regards, Martin Winlow
Isle of Colonsay, Scotland
evalbum.com/2092
Hello
The exact same thing just happened to my charger. Same symptoms and found a burned thermistor just like on your picture. I investigated a bit further. Past the thermistor, the filtered mains voltage feed a bridge rectifier which is fixed to the charger body and the resulting DC voltage feeds the upper PCB. After testing the rectifier, I measured the input resistance of the upper PCB and I read a clear short. I tried to power this input with a 12VDC charger and it reads a constant short. This upper PCB seems almost impossible to remove. Is there any point in trying to go further? As anyone tried anything of this kind before? I'll replace the thermistor and will give it a try but my expectations are far from high. Thanks.
Martin, I changed my charger in December, and I'm getting some limited range as well. I've gotten some replacement cells, and I'm going to be testing them in order to find the best ones. Any advice for the swap? Do you know of any videos/threads that show how to best replace duds? This is going to be a pretty big project for me, since I have limited electric/battery knowledge.
Hi Josh(?),
Why did you change your charger?
I suspect the new charger is not charging quite as fully as the original did.
To test the cells, you need to drain the pack to the red dash battery light. Then access the cells to the point wher you can connect a voltmeter accross each cell and look for any that are significantly lower than the others - probably less than a volt but do check this elsewhere on this forum as it has been a while since i last looked. Also, streseed cells (sufficient to be causing problems) will normally have discoloured tops or have significant corrosion to the tops/terminals. I have also heard that the cells have a temperature sensitive label attached which permenantly changes colour when it gets 'too' hot. Others will have to chip in here.
The best video i have found thus far re changing cells is the lithium conversion ones done by Antiscab. They are not specifically to do with changing nicd cells but you should easily have enough info to do the job after watchingvthem. I still haven't investigated my cells yet but i plan to, just to see if it's worth messing around with buying a few replacements rather than forking out £3k to do a 60Ah Li conversion - lovely as it would be to have probably 4 times my current range, i'd rather put it toward a new(er) bike but there's no suitable alternative to temp me away from the V yet - not with a decent fairing anyway.
Please keep us informed with what you find and your decision making.
Regards, Martin.
Regards, Martin Winlow
Isle of Colonsay, Scotland
evalbum.com/2092
My charger died and needed replacement: http://visforvoltage.org/forum/13277-charging-wont-start-help
In fact, the new charger seems to be doing fine with regards to charging, but it looks like I'll need to change cells. I've started testing the replacements to weed out lesser performers. I'm using a 12V 1.5 A charger on a group of 8. It looks like I'm going to have about 10-15 good replacements.
I've used antiscabs videos, they're invaluable. I'll keep posting on my progress on this thread: http://visforvoltage.org/forum/13378-rebuilding-battery-pack-spare-cell-testing
The 12V charger will kill your cells if you are not very careful. It probably continues to charge until the voltage reaches 14V or more.
This information may be used entirely at your own risk.
There is always a way if there is no other way!
If you're going to try to recharge 1.2 volt NiMH batteries, it's best to charge them in groups of 9, rather than groups of 8. 9 x 1.55 (terminal voltage for most NiMH chemistries) is 13.95 volts. If you want to play it even safer, go with groups of 10 and a much lower capacity charger. I had a pack of 10 "D" cells made up once and didn't fry them until I tried to get clever and used a 2 amp charger without a proper BMS.
I'll keep an eye on the charger. So far it looks like it shows a full charge after 60-90 minutes, so it seems to shut things down before the charge gets very high. Mind you, none of these cells showed any charge at the beginning, After charging they show about 1.3-1.4 volts. The good ones at least.
Any advice on how to do the identifying and swapping of bad cells from my scooter? My only thought is to check the voltage of individual cells while putting groups of 8 under a load (a 12V lightbulb). I swap out low-zero voltage cells for the good ones I've identified from my spares. Any other thoughts?