Nissan Leaf Modules Li Conversion - Questions

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Archi13
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Re: Nissan Leaf Modules Li Conversion - Questions

Hello Jeff, very good job and nice result.
Why you don't use a grid power inverter with your solar panel and your normal charger, with this solution you don't need to supervise the voltage and time of charging.
Example:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/1200W-GRID-TIE-POWER-INVERTER-DC28-48V-TO-AC-110V-for-solar-panel-/151357474741?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&ha...

Peter Faulkner
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Re: Nissan Leaf Modules Li Conversion - Questions

Really like the installation using the OEM orange busbars Where did you source them ?

Thanks

Peter

Jeff Spooner
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Re: Nissan Leaf Modules Li Conversion - Questions

Matt: Thanks for the tip & warnings regarding charging. I'll attempt to keep the SOC in the 125V to 145V range most of time, until I get balancing process implemented. Again, thanks for the video's you took the time to create! I doubt that I would have undertook this project without them.

Archi13: The condition of my onboard charger is unknown, it stopped charging the Nimh pack a while ago. Currently with the sensors unplugged it will not charge at all. OMy solar setup is currently not large enough or set up with a inverter/battery pack (but that is on the "to do" list)

Peter: The orange bus bar unit came with the pack. Sourced in the US from Hybrid Auto Center.

rEVolution Rocks

Soyouz
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Re: Nissan Leaf Modules Li Conversion - Questions

Hello,

For orange busbar, Allan has asked to Nissan : it is more than 1000€ for a new part...

Iget some news from Vince, the guy that is doing a leaf conversion with new charger. The bike has made some km, conversion is almost finished and it is very impressive !!

New charger :
chargeur prise et d+®flecteurs.JPG

Battery EMUS BMS :
Batterie-emus.jpg
amp+¿re m+¿tre et prise de connection.JPG
emus-relais-prise.jpg

12V DC/DC :
DC DC.JPG

Module assembly with endplates :
pack Leaf assembl+®.jpg

With a trick for middle terminal :
su+®l+¿vation modules.JPG

And supreme refinement, Battery management on smartphone through bluetooth !! (just have to find a bracket for the phone ;-)
Screenshot_appli android.jpg

It is the best conversion I ever seen!
I will have further detailed information soon.

Jeff Spooner
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Re: Nissan Leaf Modules Li Conversion - Questions

Conversions are looking good! Looking forward to seeing the final outcome!

rEVolution Rocks

heathyoung
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Re: Nissan Leaf Modules Li Conversion - Questions

Nice. Those chargers are not by any stretch of the imagination waterproof, and also need some serious component gluing (the main transformer and inductor will end up fatiguing the solder joints, and break off) - ask me how I know this :)

That's almost more retentive than some of my constructions :)

martinwinlow
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Re: Nissan Leaf Modules Li Conversion - Questions

Hi,

Can anyone (everyone, ideally) who has bought LEAF modules advise where they got them (is Hybrid Auto Center the only supplier?), what they cost, postage cost, postage method, shipping time and import duty, please?

Just thought it would be useful to know for other prospective buyers - including me, possibly! MW

Regards, Martin Winlow
Isle of Colonsay, Scotland
evalbum.com/2092

martinwinlow
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Re: Nissan Leaf Modules Li Conversion - Questions

Matt (antiscab) has recommended the Elcon 1500W or 2kW charger as an alternative for the Vectrix standard charger.

Has anyone in Europe used one and, if so, can they recommend a supplier?

What did it cost?

What charge voltage would it need to be configured with (by the supplier, I gather) for 18 and 19 series LEAF module configurations?

Would I be right in thinking that using this charger would mean that you would not have to worry about installing a charging cutoff relay as the charger does this itself?

Regards, Martin Winlow
Isle of Colonsay, Scotland
evalbum.com/2092

antiscab
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Re: Nissan Leaf Modules Li Conversion - Questions

Has anyone in Europe used one and, if so, can they recommend a supplier?

What did it cost?

What charge voltage would it need to be configured with (by the supplier, I gather) for 18 and 19 series LEAF module configurations?

Would I be right in thinking that using this charger would mean that you would not have to worry about installing a charging cutoff relay as the charger does this itself?

When I had to source a TC Charger for a customer in France I just ordered it directly from the factory in China

that cost me US$500

you would need 150V for 18 modules or 158V for 19 modules (you lose a little capacity by not going all the way to 8.4v per module, but you make it back in longer service life)

The TC Chargers come with an enable function - so while you may not need a relay, you still need a way to halt the charger when any one module gets too full, particularly as you have to charge so close to the max voltage limit of the module to get it full

Daily Ride:
2007 Vectrix, modified with 42 x Thundersky 60Ah
Vectrix 60Ah Lithium Tyres Fuel Registration Insurance cycle analyst 2 x TC Charger & MC
conversion

Archi13
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Re: Nissan Leaf Modules Li Conversion - Questions

Hello Matt,
The best source for the elcon TC Charger is in Evassemble compagny, for 340$:
http://www.evassemble.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=17

antiscab
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Re: Nissan Leaf Modules Li Conversion - Questions

Hello Matt,
The best source for the elcon TC Charger is in Evassemble compagny, for 340$:
http://www.evassemble.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=17

Excellent find :D

the $500 I mentioned included shipping

the only option seems to be the fast expensive option - so no cheap slow sea mail option (for instance when you only want a spare and don't mind waiting a couple of months)

being able to pay by credit card is an improvement - ordering direct from the factory required direct bank deposit, so there were fees to add to that too :(

Daily Ride:
2007 Vectrix, modified with 42 x Thundersky 60Ah
Vectrix 60Ah Lithium Tyres Fuel Registration Insurance cycle analyst 2 x TC Charger & MC
conversion

Peter Faulkner
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Re: Nissan Leaf Modules Li Conversion - Questions

UPDATE ON MY LEAF CONVERSION:

My leaf cell packs arrive tomorrow. Have just collected a decent quality RC Li-poly 7.4V auto charger to set each cell pack to that voltage. I am awaiting delivery of the PCAN USB adapter from Peak. I have made up an insulated lifting harness to fit the Nimh cell containers studs and borrowed a decent block and tackle to lift them out.

Once Nimh cells removed I will check to see what main fuse is fitted, if not 200amp will fit one.

The plan is to fit the 18 evenly charged Leaf cells Connect up to bike via incandescent light bulb to charge capacitor. Not connecting esd charger to mains.
Connect up laptop on battery power and run diagnostics. I intend to have help from a very experienced DC drive /PLC engineer in loading Lairds diagnostic programme and running the tests, as it may just be a little beyond my comfort level!! ( Code for competence) .
Assuming satisfactory results, I will then consult the Oracle ( aka The Laird) with a view to obtaining suitable new MC and ESD Charger firmware updates. Load, Lock and Ride... I hope!!

Peter

martinwinlow
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Re: Nissan Leaf Modules Li Conversion - Questions

Hi Peter,

I made up this to lift my NiMH packs - no need for insulation as the lifting bolts have no potential…

IMG_2332.jpg

… and an ordinary engine hoist may be more practical/easier to get hold of than a block and tackle (they fold up quite well)…

NiNM Lift on Engine Hoist s.jpg

It allows you to pull the hoisted pack away from the bike and drop it down onto the floor (or dolly etc) without having to move the bike.

Regards, Martin Winlow
Isle of Colonsay, Scotland
evalbum.com/2092

Archi13
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Re: Nissan Leaf Modules Li Conversion - Questions

Hello Martin and Peter,
Like me, you can disassemble your battery in your scooter and remove the battery by 9 elements and on the same time take your temperature sensor.
In this case you don't need any equipment.

kevin smith
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Re: Nissan Leaf Modules Li Conversion - Questions

hi m8 my vectrix has sort of died..

i/e woring fine but after holls one week came to use it for my new job :-(

very porley was left fully charged but now totally fauilty . any way how many leaf cells do you have ? and how much for bulk order? and how did you manage to get them ?

kindest regards kevin leeds england vivala france

kevin smith
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Re: Nissan Leaf Modules Li Conversion - Questions

hi m8 my vectrix has sort of died..

i/e woring fine but after holls one week came to use it for my new job :-(

very porley was left fully charged but now totally fauilty . any way how many leaf cells do you have ? and how much for bulk order? and how did you manage to get them ?

kindest regards kevin leeds england vivala france

Peter Faulkner
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Re: Nissan Leaf Modules Li Conversion - Questions

Quick project update!

Bike stripped down, front fairings/ instrument panel etc etc removed and chassis generally cleaned, glove box mechanism repaired.

Old cells and temp sensors removed. Took out the top layers and easily removed the two remaining big packs on my own by manual lifting using two Visegrips on the black casings!1 Thanks Archi13!!

Leaf cells have arrived ( Thank you SOY0UZ) and are now being individually balanced using a RC Lithium auto charger. Got 20 but only fitting 18!!

Main fuse removed and will be upgraded from 125Amp to 200 Amp.( Thank you Martin Winlow)

Cells will then be fitted using 2 mm Polycarbonate spacer pieces and closed cell heavy duty PE foam for snug fit and thermal insulation.

PCAN Bus USB link will delivered today and will load diagnostic software (thank you The Laird/Sandy)

Will post after next stage!!

Wish me luck

Peter

jasmim
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Re: Nissan Leaf Modules Li Conversion - Questions

Please a do a tutorial with many pictures. I want to learn! :-D

Vectrix Vx1 Li+ 60Ah

jasmim
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Re: Nissan Leaf Modules Li Conversion - Questions

Please do a tutorial with many pictures. I want to learn! :-D

Vectrix Vx1 Li+ 60Ah

Peter Faulkner
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Re: Nissan Leaf Modules Li Conversion - Questions

I am reusing the old bus bars to interconnect cells, 8 of them need to have the holes elongated by 2-3mm to eliminate the gap between every second pair. I will not thus need any polycarbonate sheet, just a block of wood to take up the final void in the plenum.

The cells are a very nice fit indeed in the plenum and only need some closed cell 3 mm LDPE foam ( same as heavy floor laminate underlay foam)to stop any movement.

Lookin'Good!!

photo(5).jpg

Kocho
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Re: Nissan Leaf Modules Li Conversion - Questions

Jeff & Matt - sent you both private emails through the forum, but I did not get my copies, so you probably did not get yours too. Can you confirm - I'll resend if needed. Thanks!

Peter Faulkner
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Re: Nissan Leaf Modules Li Conversion - Questions

To make a 'LEAF conversion', based on '08 VX (ESD charger):

You have to get :

  • 19 or 18 leaf modules, (I have enough left for you)
  • 18 or 17 busbars. Those from NiMh are a bit too long but can be ok with some work or by putting 2mm wood plate between module
  • one 35 mm², 60 cm long wire to connect MC to the terminal that will be on front of battery
  • A BMS system if you want to or a safety relay if you want to avoid BMS, I put this one : http://fr.rs-online.com/web/p/relais-de-surveillance/0261987/ .This relay must be put on main wire to shut down charge if voltage goes above determined voltage (avoid overcharge)
  • Some stuff as screws, polystyrene, wood....

Mechanical :

  1. remove NiMh battery
  2. remove battery fans and plastic parts that are with
  3. I have followed

  4. Isolate the pack with polystyrène (better battery efficiency for cold weather)
  5. balance every cells in modules around 3,150V (with RC charger/discharger)
  6. install the modules in pack, either with Nissan method : studs and compression plate, or like I did : put the module and compress slightly with wood blocks.
  7. connect every module in serial with busbars (careful whith short-circuit!)
  8. plug the wire from one of the MC wire to front battery terminal
  9. connect thermal sensor if you want to keep it, if not software change mandatory
  10. Install either the BMS or the relay
  11. connect the battery to MC, just after having charging MC capacitor through a light bulb.
  12. Turn on the bike, it should live !

Software :

  1. install scooterdiag
  2. upload the adapted charger software to the bike, software to get from Sandy.

Close the battery pack and ride !

Of course it is a quick summary but I can detail every step, as other "converted" can also do.

If you have a Runke charger :

  • You do the same WITH 19 Modules (18 is forbidden, too low voltage, overcharge risk) without software change step. With original software you will charge battery to only 60%, that will double autonomy with 20 kg less compared to NiMh and no power limitation. It is not the best but anyway better.
  • Or you remove original charger and replace it by this one :http://www.green-vision.fr/catalogue/Produit/77/16/batteries-lithium-lifepo4/chargeur-lithium/chargeur-lithium-1200w.html. I didn't try myself but know someone that is doing it ( not finished)
  • Or you buy an external charger and charge externaly
  • Or you find someone that can program Runke charger ;-)

I may be not complete or people can have comments or better idea, feel free to add !

I bought my leaf cells from Soyouz ( top fellow indeed!) and I have followed his methods as above using 18 packs only and would just add the following.
I replaced the main fuse with a 200Amp semicionductor fuse from Martin Winlow ( another very decent chap!). I do appreciate all the contributions and advice from those on here, but most especially Sandy/The Laird has shown extraordinary patience with me!!

The NiMh bus bars are actually made from copper, (with a dull silver plated exterior finish) so it is easy to elongate the holes to get correct spacing.
You will need a Pcanbus usb lead to run scooterdiag and install the Lairds firmware updates. You will also need a simple dsub 9 pin female/female gender converter as both the bike and the lead are male!
I am not running BMS or temperature sensors as I have found the cells stay cool during charging and seem to have a natural balance even if charged without using balance mode, ie evenly to 4.15V per parallel pair ( 8.3v per pack) The Laird has formatted my firmware accordingly for my ESD charger.

By the end of the week I hope to take it for my very first spin.... I will report back.

Peter

jasmim
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Re: Nissan Leaf Modules Li Conversion - Questions

Good! Take many picture please!

Vectrix Vx1 Li+ 60Ah

Peter Faulkner
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Re: Nissan Leaf Modules Li Conversion - Questions

image_0.jpgimage_1.jpgMy VX-1 2008 is now a runner, LEAF powered. Just back from my very first spin, as it was a doorstop NiMh when I bought it some weeks ago./ WOW, very lively, very torquey... great fun. I will have to do some learning as my slow speed manoeuvring/balance is rather dodgy, more that 35 years since I last two wheeled!

Many many thanks to all who have helped me, especially Soyouz, Martin Wimlow, Kocho, Spoonman here in Dublin, and MR Firmware himself...The Laird all gave generously of their time and advice.

I did end up using Windows 7 to load the new firmware as per the Advice from Kocho on the http://visforvoltage.org/forum/13474-scooter-diagnostic-not-comunicating-vectrix#comment-73237 thread. It ran sweetly!

Cheers

Peter

Bike cost €900
LEAF Cells inc delivery €1170
Pcan lead/gender changer/misc bits €250

2008 12K miles VX-1 LEAF powered Total cost €2320 (USD$3100) Great Value I think!

image_1.jpg

image.jpg

krider
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Re: Nissan Leaf Modules Li Conversion - Questions

Subscribed :) Been a long-time lurker, finally signed-up to be able to post as I am gathering my final drops of courage to try and revive my dying VX-1 with some Li power! From what I read here, the Leaf conversion seems like the way to go for me and I can hopefully manage to do it on my own. I'm so glad you folks are so willing to share information! Keep it coming!

Ken

charlie66
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Re: Nissan Leaf Modules Li Conversion - Questions

Wow,
your conversion is very impressive.

I consider doing a similar project, I can get hold on a quite inexpensive VX-1 NiMh in good condition but unfortunately it is not running - controller failure probably.

Can you give some idea about the range of your setup?
What is the weight of your Vectrix, should be under 200 kg, right?

VX-1 Li+ 2013

Peter Faulkner
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Re: Nissan Leaf Modules Li Conversion - Questions

weight is about 23/24kgs below NiMh all up number and range I expect to be about 130-140 Klms on level terrain.

Vectrix99
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Re: Nissan Leaf Modules Li Conversion - Questions Runke

Thanks to Zoyouz. - A really useful description :)
My NIMh is still doing like 35 Km / 18 Ah, but I do keep an eye open for LEAF cells.
I got the Runke Charger during warranty. Not sure how many Km I would lose at only 60% charge. Maybe it would charge more if it is unplugged and connected again. - Or would the voltage be so high that it do not restart?
Could it also be possible to choose 18 modules if supplied with a voltage cut-off relay?

Kocho
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Re: Nissan Leaf Modules Li Conversion - Questions

How did you guys tighten-up the rods? Specifically the bottom pair? For the top I can counter with a wrench from the front and tighten the back. But the bottom rods rotate and I can't tighten them with a nylon stop-nut. I'll replace these stop nuts tomorrow (with the nylon locking inserts) with a different type (freely rotating, with lock washer at the base) and that should do it.

I assume you guys assembled the pack inside the bike's frame, sliding cells one at a time over the rods? Although it looks like an 18 cell pack with thin compression end plates light just be possible to lower in when pre-assembled....

Lastly, FYI, my cells are from a 2013 Leaf and look different (the aluminum shell is made of two pieces and between them I can see the pouches and plastic separators inside each cell).

Will post some photos of my conversion in a day or two, once I get the bike running again on Li.

Kocho
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Re: Nissan Leaf Modules Li Conversion - Questions

All done with my Leaf conversion! The feeling of 150V with almost no voltage drop while riding during the first few miles of use transforms the bike very nicely :) Range is still TBD until I get my per-cell voltage monitors installed, so I won't be discharging the battery too much until I can tell what each cell is doing.

On the photo the 2 power cables are not yet connected, the BMS plugs are not used (yet).

WP_20140913_13_12_02_Pro.jpg

I used 1/4" closed cell foam (minicell) to line the bottom, front, and one of the long sides of the bike's frame, and on the opposing long side I inserted 2mm thick plastic sheets that nicely compress the battery sideways against the foam on the other side. Compression against the front bulkhead is via a wedged block of wood wrapped in very stiff 1/2" flooring foam. The cells are all strung together on 4 threaded rods and compressed by 3/4" plywood end plates with large washers and locking nuts (L-shaped profiles would have been better, the washers seem to work fine too).

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