I just bought a second 2007 Vectrix - the MC is screwy, randomly shows the wrench light, cuts out *without* showing the wrench (restarts OK), shows full bars + no change to available range, and seems a bit slow on acceleration. I haven't used scooterdiag before (my first Vectrix hasn't needed anything yet), so I need help with the program. After wiring it up, the computer registers the CANbus cable, but the program doesn't show any evidence of getting data from the scooter (tried key on and key off). I don't think it has any up-to-date files - version is 2.0 and hex files are CLR24_X1, ERA24_X1, and PRG24_X1, all dated 11/26/2006. What is the order of use, is there an online reference, and were can I get newer HEX files?
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I spent several hours last night (into the wee) searching VifV posts for a clue why things weren't working - it seems I needed a new dll from the Peak site. After installing this, scooterdiag is now green! I used the files available online (not The Laird's) and updated all the hexes, then took it for a ride...creeping around the block, so decided I had to do the "magic sequences". Some clumsy use of floor jack and metal ramp got the rear wheel in the air; the magic sequences took all of a second or two each. I was expecting more, so I did them each several times. Back on the road and it goes all the way to 11 (108kph, actually)! However, the acceleration is interrupted several times getting there, and will even cut out for a faction of a second going up to lower speeds. It does not do this "at cruise", only when speeding up. I have a post into The Laird for whatever hex files would help, but is there some other cause for the "cut outs"?
When the acceleration is interrupted - does it feel as though you slow each time?
what is the battery voltage doing? is it dipping below 100V?
is the encoder message coming up?
If it's not those two, than it is probably the IGBT module overheating. It would feel like a brakes a bit when it cuts out.
basically the only way to fix that issue is by replacing the IGBT module - it's a hardware fault rather than a software issue.
I normally just wait until the IGBT fails before replacing it - it takes a year or so from when it first starts doing it
Daily Ride:
2007 Vectrix, modified with 42 x Thundersky 60Ah in July 2010. Done 194'000km
If it is the IGBT overheating there are a couple things you can check. First make sure the MC fan is coming on. You should be able to hear it kick in when you turn the throttle. Try applying brakes then throttle, fan should come on. The other thing you can do is re-seat the IGBT to the heatsink. There were many incidents where the screws were not tight enough or were too long and bottomed out in holes.
It feels like power has stopped briefly, less than a second so no noticeable drop in speed.
I don't know what battery voltage is - it isn't displayed anywhere.
No error messages come up.
IGBT must get hot *very* fast, since this will happen the moment I drive off!
I'm looking at the other board I have - is the IGBT the large black unit under the circuit board? It has a load of thermal paste sandwiched in there. I had hoped to not have to open up the battery compartment until the pack started failing, but if it can be helped just by screwing something down, I will try.
Hi hempev,
Sounds a bit like my (minor) problem. If the loss of power you are having could be described as one or more very brief 'blips' of power loss - a bit like if you imagine you had a chain driven bike and when accelerating the chain slipped once or twice - then this is what I have. I'm advised it may be a dirty encoder which is behind the chrome cover on the left side of the rear wheel. Sometimes dust get inside the workings settling on the encoder disc upsetting the (LED) reading of the disc and thus the timing of the phases to the motor windings. System gets confused and misses out a few phases.
It is EXTREMELY delicate so a few puffs of an 'air duster' - not a compressed air line as this would be too aggressive - should suffice. I don't recommend taking the encoder disc off as it is very difficult (apparently) to get back on with the right alignment. When finished cleaning, do the encoder calibration magic sequence. MW
Regards, Martin Winlow
Isle of Colonsay, Scotland
evalbum.com/2092
If it is less than a second, it may not be the IGBT.
it could be several things, all kinda tricky to test for.
blowing out the encoder is probably an easy option.
my Vectrix is at 93'000km, and I have never blown out my encoder, but then my seal is probably still in good nick (not that I had anything to do with it :p)
Yes it does - the IGBT for some reason degrades internally - either it starts making more heat, or becomes less able to get rid of it.
I normally only see it in bikes 30'000km and above and much more so on bikes that are constantly under hard acceleration (like mine)
basically it heats internally to its 180 deg C (IIRC) cut off, and drivers inside the module shut down to prevent it from burning out.
usually it eventually fails when the temp sensor embedded on one of the IGBT gates detaches due to the thermal cycling.
it cools just as quickly, being bolted to a big aluminium heat sink
making sure the IGBT is bolted to the heatsink properly is a good idea, but won't cure the issue if the problem is the IGBT.
Daily Ride:
2007 Vectrix, modified with 42 x Thundersky 60Ah in July 2010. Done 194'000km
There was a bit of dust under the seal, but I wouldn't want to blow anything more than my breath on the encoder itself, since it seems rather flimsy. After as much as I dared do, I had less dropouts, but still had them, even at low speed acceleration. It might be from the encoder, but I don't know what else I would feel comfortable doing - can you use anything besides air on an encoder (cotton swab, etc)?
I have read the 'Dealer Training' manual on the encoder…
… and it is beginning to sound as though someone may have had your encoder disc off and not replaced it correctly. The word 'hesitating' refers to the momentary loss of power I think we are both talking about. I fear the only way to sort this out (if it is the problem) is going to be to get hold of whatever special tool is required to re-seat the encoder disc and/or PCB.. If it is just a case of concentricity of the disc then an engineer may be able to make one for you.
If you have the PEAK cable and sccoterdiag.exe software then you can verify if the encoder is out by following these instructions…
As you can see, this method is an improvement over the 'magic sequence' in that you can check if there is a change in the encoder offset angle before and after calibration. Of course, if the disc is wonky all this may not help!
Regards, Martin Winlow
Isle of Colonsay, Scotland
evalbum.com/2092
This sounds very much like the IGBT is not properly mounted to the heat sink. I have seen it many times. It does not sound like an encoder issue. If it was the encoder the drive would be messed up after the event because the MC would not know where to place the field.
Antiscab is correct that if this occurs too much it will degrade the IGBT since this is a HW fault condition and is not meant to be a repetitive safeguard. Some of the MC used a thick heatsink compound that required several torquing stages... tighten, wait for compound to spread out, tighten etc. Many times this was not done properly. Some had a foil covered with compound, I have seen where these were folded causing a bigger gap and portions of the IGBT were not heatsunk. I suggest checking the four screws that hold the IGBT to the HS. Also make sure fan is working and not turning in the wrong direction.
Does someone have a photo of what is/where the IGBT is mounted? I will probably be opening my bike soon to see if I can identify/replace some bad NiMh cells (and to do some mechanical work on the front end too), so I would like to check for that IGBT potential issue in the process. And to do that, I would like to know what the IGBT looks like and where it is mounted...
Thanks!
No pictures, but if you look at the MC board, there are 2 units that sit below the board: a smaller, thinner one that looks distinctly like a Vicor DC:DC module, and a much large black brick suspiciously IGBT-like with screws hiding below white thermal paste -- is it these screws that need to be checked for tight fit? My spare board seems to be reasonably snug, but I have no idea how the one currently installed compares.
P.S. - short of installing the spare MC board back into the bike, can it be tested for patency outside of its normal placement by just routing the correct wires, power, sensors etc. needed to make it think it is being used?
i stand corrected the latest versions of all firmware is dated 12-8-2008. mcr1017.hex icmr1008.hex bcr3001.hex
Robo
Another post I find that people can lay their hands on the hexes, but no link for the rest of us. I am responding to these all so that when the latest software is found we can post them to each of these threads.
-Randy
______________________
I also own a 2018 Tesla Model 3 and a 2012 Mitsubishi iMiev
Those are the same hex files I have
Robo