CAN-BUS Datalogger for Vectrix

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R
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Re: CAN-BUS Datalogger for Vectrix

Is there something that is able to balance every single cell, when I use my scooter?
Have you ever feld something like that?

I guess:
-You have original GP lithium
-You have a bad cell, with low capacity, and you think it limits your range. Unless you check the 39 other cells, this is not true at all.
-You are tired of getting less range with your vectrix. This explains why you are buying the peak cable, ans searching for a special device to keep your battery alive.

Let's go straight:
No Bms will be able to compensate the lost capacity of a bad cell during the short time of your ride.
oh Yes,
You may be able to locate that bad cell, and you might be extremely lucky and have one single bad cell (quite improbable)
You may manage also to make somebody build a complex, autonomous electronic device to inject energy to it, when the dam bad cell's voltage shrinks.
However,
The smart way is to forget about GP original battery. These cells are really bad, they won't last long. Don't waste your money on strange devices. Go to the solution it works: Buy an upgrading battery kit to vectrix parts, with full warranty. If it is too expensive, try to find leaf cells from a savaged yards, and upgrade your vectrix with them.

The Gp may be recycled to solar application or something else less demanding.

prensel
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Re: CAN-BUS Datalogger for Vectrix

Is there something that is able to balance every single cell, when I use my scooter?
Have you ever feld something like that?

The Gp may be recycled to solar application or something else less demanding.

I have a complete pack of GP cells left from a brand new 800km VX1-Li scooter.
Most of the 40 cells have swollen big-bellies, probably caused by overcharging.
Not sure if this was just caused but the bad GP product or the original (but malfunctioning??) Vectrix BMS system
Some cells hold their charge but most of them drain instantly when taken of a charger.

So they're not usable for anything actually.

===================================
My contribution to EV in The Netherlands
- Novox C20
- Vectrix VX-1 Li+ my2009 #2791
- Vectrix VX-1 Li my2011 #3228
- CityEl Fact4 / Mini El Cabrio
- Th!nk PIV4 A266
- Th!nk City A306
- Tesla Model3 AWD

Cristiano2BB
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Re: CAN-BUS Datalogger for Vectrix

Is there something that is able to balance every single cell, when I use my scooter?
Have you ever feld something like that?

I guess:
-You have original GP lithium

You are a clairvoyant.....
My GP aren't swollen, but got 30.000km...
so 42Ah are compromised.
there's no one cell weak in particular, about 10 that drop down towards 2.40V before others
and not at the same time, yesterday was number 2, today is number 34, tomorrow will be number 18...
I know it because I have disassembled Vx1 six time, I need Peak CAN...

But I dont want to consider my batteries.
all you have written about "balance during discharging" and "GP weak" is correct, but
consider that when red light is on, your pack isn't empty, it means only that one single cell is near 2.40V
Most likely one cell is 2.40V and twenty others are 3.10V (with GP packs)
or one cell is 2.40V and twenty others are 2.90V (with good packs).
So, system that I've thinked, aim to bring all cells at 2.40V at the same time.
Obviously with little bit of tolerance
Have you understood now this improvement?
I think that it could be increase GP's range of more than 20%
and used good pack, of more than 10%
On new good pack gain is nothing.
if there and if it worked, would you buy a system like this?

prensel
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Re: CAN-BUS Datalogger for Vectrix

there's no one cell weak in particular, about 10 that drop down towards 2.40V before others
and not at the same time, yesterday was number 2, today is number 34, tomorrow will be number 18...
I know it because I have disassembled Vx1 six time, I need Peak CAN...

But I dont want to consider my batteries.
all you have written about "balance during discharging" and "GP weak" is correct, but
consider that when red light is on, your pack isn't empty, it means only that one single cell is near 2.40V
Most likely one cell is 2.40V and twenty others are 3.10V (with GP packs)
or one cell is 2.40V and twenty others are 2.90V (with good packs).
So, system that I've thinked, aim to bring all cells at 2.40V at the same time.

Oh my...

ANY Lithium cell below 2.5V can be considered as totally damaged and should be considered as DANGEROUS as well.
Please read all you can about cell reversal and things happening when you put even one cell of those cell in series with any good others...

It's is actually just a matter of time before your Vectrix burns DOWN..
Please keep your camera at hand, we always like good pictures... NOT

BOEM !

Another good advise: park outside away from other burnable stuff when charging your Vectrix....

===================================
My contribution to EV in The Netherlands
- Novox C20
- Vectrix VX-1 Li+ my2009 #2791
- Vectrix VX-1 Li my2011 #3228
- CityEl Fact4 / Mini El Cabrio
- Th!nk PIV4 A266
- Th!nk City A306
- Tesla Model3 AWD

Cristiano2BB
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Re: CAN-BUS Datalogger for Vectrix

ok, I'll change in:
system that I've thinked, aim to bring all cells at 2.70V (end of discharge) at the same time.
take 2.70 like voltage of end of discharge and read again my words.

Consider that my original Vectrix BMS, stop MC when one cell drop down 2.40V

Which chemistry have cells in your foto?

Consider that LiFePo4 cant burn or explode

Instead LiPo or Ion can

prensel
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Re: CAN-BUS Datalogger for Vectrix

ok, I'll change in:
system that I've thinked, aim to bring all cells at 2.70V (end of discharge) at the same time.
take 2.70 like voltage of end of discharge and read again my words.

Consider that my original Vectrix BMS, stop MC when one cell drop down 2.40V

Which chemistry have cells in your foto?

Consider that LiFePo4 cant burn or explode

Instead LiPo or Ion can

Seems you know it all, i wish you all the best.

===================================
My contribution to EV in The Netherlands
- Novox C20
- Vectrix VX-1 Li+ my2009 #2791
- Vectrix VX-1 Li my2011 #3228
- CityEl Fact4 / Mini El Cabrio
- Th!nk PIV4 A266
- Th!nk City A306
- Tesla Model3 AWD

cuttysark76
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Re: CAN-BUS Datalogger for Vectrix

Seems you know it all, i wish you all the best.

I wish you could take a look into my Datalogger! It's unusable in my new bike. Please help.

R
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Re: CAN-BUS Datalogger for Vectrix

I wish you could take a look into my Datalogger! It's unusable in my new bike. Please help.

Only works with mc 10nn firmware, you have 20nn mc firm in your new vectrix. Prensel knows better what is going on.

there's no one cell weak in particular, about 10 that drop down towards 2.40V before others
and not at the same time, yesterday was number 2, today is number 34, tomorrow will be number 18...
I know it because I have disassembled Vx1 six time, I need Peak CAN...

Consider you battery dead. go for the Leaf!

PS: prensel, what an amazing surprise! you also like cityel/miniel! Have you ever tried the twike?

cuttysark76
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Re: CAN-BUS Datalogger for Vectrix

Thanks for the answer... I wasn't aware of that firmware incompatibility...

Cristiano2BB
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Re: CAN-BUS Datalogger for Vectrix

Consider you battery dead.

What?
I can run 70km in 35A mode, 78km in 30A mode and 91km in 25A mode.
It's a bad pack, but not dead.
Next week I should have Peak wire, and situation will be clearer, I hope...

R
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Re: CAN-BUS Datalogger for Vectrix

Cristiano, I admire your efforts to save your shrinking GP battery, but the cells are bad,the manufacture process was defective, the battery is damaged due to old/ bad firmware.
Ok they gave you 30.000 km, this is a miracle. But admit it, the pack is screwed, focus your time, efforts and money in getting leaf cells. Stay tunned on vectrixparts web, second gen of BMS will show up soon. i recommend you buy one of the new Bms system, the leaf boxs and pcb adapters.

Just curious, 35A=80km/h, 25A=60km/h?
When you receive the peak adapter, update to latest firmware ( check http://service.vectrixparts.com/topics/24-vx-1-lili-firmware-40s-life-battery/). You may have latest MC version, you may not update MC. If you want to monitor charge process, remember you cannot plug the laptop to AC plug if vectrix is plugued to same AC plug, or it will fry up.

Bikemad
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Re: CAN-BUS Datalogger for Vectrix

If you want to monitor charge process, remember you cannot plug the laptop to AC plug if vectrix is plugged to same AC plug, or it will fry up.

I also read the following in the first post of the latest may 2012 software instructions thread:

"Do not have the Bike charger cable connected to a mains supply whilst the computer is connected to the bike even if the mains is switched off. (this applies to a mains powered computer. It is safe to have a battery powered computer connected whilst the bike is connected to the mains power)"

I was not sure whether this would be a problem with a mains powered laptop, so I asked Matteo Zordan from Vectrix Parts, "Have you ever experienced problems connecting mains powered laptops while the charger is actually charging?"

He replied, "Yes you can connect the bike to the laptop using this cable while charging, no issue at all, the can bus is fully isolated at the bike side."

My laptops are always plugged into the mains when I use them to regularly monitor the charge process, and I have never had a problem with any of the three laptops that I have used with the Peak canbus adapter on both of my Vectrixes.

Alan

Cristiano2BB
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Re: CAN-BUS Datalogger for Vectrix

Thanks a lot, R.
Understood...

35A=80km/h, 25A=60km/h dont you result it?
I mean amperes for keep constant speed.

prensel
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Re: CAN-BUS Datalogger for Vectrix

Hi all,

It's been a while since i was here but i have not given up on the Vectrix.
The Magic Box was/is still working on my bike but I recently swapped my DIY Liion cells for Leaf cells.
So I will soon rebuild/update the MB firmware for the latest VX firmware.

===================================
My contribution to EV in The Netherlands
- Novox C20
- Vectrix VX-1 Li+ my2009 #2791
- Vectrix VX-1 Li my2011 #3228
- CityEl Fact4 / Mini El Cabrio
- Th!nk PIV4 A266
- Th!nk City A306
- Tesla Model3 AWD

prensel
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Re: CAN-BUS Datalogger for Vectrix

Hi,

A new version of the MagicBox firmware is available, v2.01.

This version 2.01 is specifically for the VX1 firmware released by Dugas Engineering (http://dugasengineering-com.3dcartstores.com/VX1-HEX-Files_ep_56-1.html)
and has been tested in VX1 with a 19 module Leaf battery setup.
All configurable items regarding battery voltage and charge settings are deleted because they can be set in the Dugas Configurator.
The default Ah capacity is set to 60Ah but like in previous versions this can be altered.

In the centre dash displays the Ah counter when driven faster then 5km/h.
The Ah counter is reset to 0 when a charge is initiated.

The left display (ODOmeter) shows the standard range settings but this output can be altered.

===================================
My contribution to EV in The Netherlands
- Novox C20
- Vectrix VX-1 Li+ my2009 #2791
- Vectrix VX-1 Li my2011 #3228
- CityEl Fact4 / Mini El Cabrio
- Th!nk PIV4 A266
- Th!nk City A306
- Tesla Model3 AWD

Kevin_PA
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Re: CAN-BUS Datalogger for Vectrix

Hi Paul,
I went to your website (reho.nl/Vectrix/) and linked through to box.com and the file is not there. (yet?)

Thanks,
Kevin

2007 VX-1

prensel
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Re: CAN-BUS Datalogger for Vectrix

Hi,

Did you find the firmware, site is updated ?

Paul

===================================
My contribution to EV in The Netherlands
- Novox C20
- Vectrix VX-1 Li+ my2009 #2791
- Vectrix VX-1 Li my2011 #3228
- CityEl Fact4 / Mini El Cabrio
- Th!nk PIV4 A266
- Th!nk City A306
- Tesla Model3 AWD

Kevin_PA
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Re: CAN-BUS Datalogger for Vectrix

Yes, the new firmware us now there. Thank you.

2007 VX-1

matschi140
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Re: CAN-BUS Datalogger for Vectrix

Hello,

I am a new Member, just have my Vectrix Vx1 NimH for 3 days.

I would be interested in buying one Magig Box, is it still availible?

Thanks

matschi140
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Re: CAN-BUS Datalogger for Vectrix

Hello,
Ist the magicbox still availible?

Thanks

prensel
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Re: CAN-BUS Datalogger for Vectrix

Hello,

Yes it is, in fact I have just finalized some more features to the firmware.
It was allready in there for some time but I finally had the time to fix/complete the support for external (=non-Vectrix) chargers.

I'm currently supporting TSM (ThunderStruck) and TC chargers but probably can add other chargers if need arises.

It also supports EVSE Type2 charging with ControlPilot/PWM support.

So the last version is now 3.0 with charger support.

Previous versions were 2.01 with support for Dugas firmware
or 1.65 with support for standard Vectrix factory firmware.

Regards,

Paul

===================================
My contribution to EV in The Netherlands
- Novox C20
- Vectrix VX-1 Li+ my2009 #2791
- Vectrix VX-1 Li my2011 #3228
- CityEl Fact4 / Mini El Cabrio
- Th!nk PIV4 A266
- Th!nk City A306
- Tesla Model3 AWD

matschi140
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Re: CAN-BUS Datalogger for Vectrix

Hey Paul,

I just finished my conversion to 20Modules leaf gen2 i already contacted dugas for modifying the FW of the ESD to accept up to 170V and he alread helped me. I did 2 charges til now up to 167V and it is holding until now, but i dont know how long it will last that high voltage.
I was looking for the 6.6kw TC charger, for the future, or do you have a better suggestion? Beat would be to have type2 as well as standard 230socket availible.

Will your magic box then work like framugas FW with Parameter settings via brake levers? What is the actual price?

Thanks, regards Marius

bm3
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Re: CAN-BUS Datalogger for Vectrix

Hello, Paul.
Nice to hear from you here in the thread again.
One of my Vectrix scooters, which is rebuilt with 18 Nissan Leaf modules and a fully firmware integrated Universal BMS from Vectrixparts, Runke charger has been running very well for more than a year now but that's not the point, I would like to rebuild a second scooter, also with Nissan Leaf cells but maybe with your Canbus interface, a TC-Charger and maybe any good working BMS. Would that be solvable, how best and which BMS to use. Will it work with the standard Vectrix firmware ? Thanks for your patience. I have already one of your boxes.

Greetings from Germany

Klaus

prensel
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Re: CAN-BUS Datalogger for Vectrix

Be aware that the DCDC converter on the MC is only capable of max 160V according specs.
6.6kW TC charger might do the job.
Chademo or CCS will not work because the lower voltage has to be 200V at least for these EVSE's.

===================================
My contribution to EV in The Netherlands
- Novox C20
- Vectrix VX-1 Li+ my2009 #2791
- Vectrix VX-1 Li my2011 #3228
- CityEl Fact4 / Mini El Cabrio
- Th!nk PIV4 A266
- Th!nk City A306
- Tesla Model3 AWD

prensel
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Re: CAN-BUS Datalogger for Vectrix

Hi Klaus,

I'm using the Zeva BMS modules for most of my EV projects and can easily integrate these with the MagicBox for the Vectrix.
The Zeva BMS has only 12 cellmodules so you either can use 36 cells (18 leaf modules) with 3 Zeva BMS modules or 38 cells but then you need 4 Zeva BMS modules.

===================================
My contribution to EV in The Netherlands
- Novox C20
- Vectrix VX-1 Li+ my2009 #2791
- Vectrix VX-1 Li my2011 #3228
- CityEl Fact4 / Mini El Cabrio
- Th!nk PIV4 A266
- Th!nk City A306
- Tesla Model3 AWD

prensel
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Re: CAN-BUS Datalogger for Vectrix

Unfortunally the manufacturer of the MagicBox hardware stopped producing them as they where.
So this means the MagicBox is no longer available as a complete plugin kit but only as free software.
The software works on any Arduino with CANbus shield and when adding an additional opto-coupler it can control the charging like the original chargers do.

So if anyone needs the firmware let me know.

===================================
My contribution to EV in The Netherlands
- Novox C20
- Vectrix VX-1 Li+ my2009 #2791
- Vectrix VX-1 Li my2011 #3228
- CityEl Fact4 / Mini El Cabrio
- Th!nk PIV4 A266
- Th!nk City A306
- Tesla Model3 AWD

oley
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Re: CAN-BUS Datalogger for Vectrix

Hi prensel,

I'm quite interesting into getting the source code.
Is it available on github ?

Thanks.

prensel
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Re: CAN-BUS Datalogger for Vectrix

No its not open source so no github.
I can build the hex file to flash.

===================================
My contribution to EV in The Netherlands
- Novox C20
- Vectrix VX-1 Li+ my2009 #2791
- Vectrix VX-1 Li my2011 #3228
- CityEl Fact4 / Mini El Cabrio
- Th!nk PIV4 A266
- Th!nk City A306
- Tesla Model3 AWD

bm3
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Re: CAN-BUS Datalogger for Vectrix

Well, I have one more question, your box can control different chargers, i.e. the charging current, but can it also limit the charging current of lithium cells when the first cell has reached its maximum voltage during charging, so that no cell exceeds the given maximum voltage during charging ? For this it would have to work together with BMS/Balancing.

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