"Dead" Runke Charger - hints to repair?

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Kocho
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"Dead" Runke Charger - hints to repair?

My Runke charger stopped charging half way through a regular charge cycle in a cool garage (70F or thereabouts air temp).

The 20A fuse on the outside is blown. Replacing the fuse does nothing, so I removed the charger from the bike to troubleshoot further.

There is voltage at the connector to the charger, so the cabling from wall to charger seems OK.

No burned smell or visible issues from the outside.

I am about to take it apart. Any guidance on where to start, what to look for, how to open it properly?

Again, this is the gold Runke, revision 4.0.

Thanks!

Kocho
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Re: "Dead" Runke Charger - hints to repair?

There is a problem with the box that is attached to the outside of the main case - where the 20A fuse is and the power plugs in to the charger.

I disconnected that piece from the rest of the charger and expected to see some voltage on the leads that go out of it. But nothing.

I think there is something wrong with the fuse socket: I put in a good fuse, but when it is in the socket it measures open circuit between the two wires that connect to it (or 120V AC when powered, where it should be 0V if the fuse was working).

I'll rig something tomorrow to bypass the fuse socket to see if the rest works.

--------------------------------------------

prensel
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Re: "Dead" Runke Charger - hints to repair?

I have two dead Runke's as well.
One with similar blown fuse and 'blasted' internal diode.
The other one doesn't supply any DC voltage but does respond to scooterdiag.

I did email with someone from Portugal who said he could repair them but never heard of him since.

I finally ended up buying a brand new ESD charger from vectrixparts.

According to someone who knows what he is talking about the Runke's are a piece of junk because of very bad soldering in China.

===================================
My contribution to EV in The Netherlands
- Vectrix VX-1 NiMh my2007 #307
- Vectrix VX-1 NiMh my2008 #2327 converted to 36S30P Li-Ion
- Vectrix VX-1 NiMh my2011 #3243
- Vectrix VX-1 Li my2011 #3228
- CityEl FactFou

Kocho
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Re: "Dead" Runke Charger - hints to repair?

I'm making slow progress troubleshooting (my local Radio Shack has closed so I don't have a parts store nearby anymore, and I need some really basic stuff like alligator clips and fuses to troubleshoot).

The fuse socket is definitely bad. Bypassing that and wiring the fuse directly powered the small outside box. But I have not yet tested if it now will power the main board.

Any idea what that outside box is supposed to be doing? Looks like a fat filter to me. It seems to be supplying 120V AC to the main board through the two thick wires. And the two thin wires don't seem to be doing anything (0V on them and I can't see them being connected to anything in the circuit).

I don't see anything burned or poorly soldered anywhere for now, but I have not yet removed the main board from the heat sink to look on its other side.

Before I hook that small box back to the main board I need to confirm if it is working properly. Ideas?

I have 2 non-working ESD chargers, and I can tell you they are much worse to repair than the Runke looks. The ESDs are a big mess of virtually unseparatable components, where the Runke looks much more modular and accessible.

Kocho
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Re: "Dead" Runke Charger - hints to repair?

Good news: the charger works again!

After installing a new fuse holder (the original one was bad, open circuit) and a new fuse, reconnected everything back to the main board, plugged all that in the bike, and it starts a charge normally.

Don’t have a properly rated fuse right now (only 5A now instead of 20A). So I stopped the charge early, before the current picked-up to the maximum 500 Watts of power that I have set the bike at right now (absolute max is 1,500W and it was set to that when the fuse blew, so hopefully just a sub-standard fuse, which also damaged the rather flimsy original fuse socket).

Why exactly the original fuse blew is unknown, hopefully just a bad fuse/fuse holder...

fuse1.jpg

fuse2.jpg

prensel
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Re: "Dead" Runke Charger - hints to repair?

Better check the two diodes D105 and D107 inside the charger.
They are working in parallel and with my charger one is completely blasted away from the pcb whereas the other one is still fine.
I think they used two in parralel to keep them from blowing when high current is passing.
In my case just one was blasted and took out the external fuse as well.

===================================
My contribution to EV in The Netherlands
- Vectrix VX-1 NiMh my2007 #307
- Vectrix VX-1 NiMh my2008 #2327 converted to 36S30P Li-Ion
- Vectrix VX-1 NiMh my2011 #3243
- Vectrix VX-1 Li my2011 #3228
- CityEl FactFou

Kocho
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Re: "Dead" Runke Charger - hints to repair?

Mine measure fine and look good.

The D105 and D107 are the big white boxes that are close to each other near the end of the fat aluminum heat sink, next to the brown capacitor.

runke1.jpg

runke2.jpg

Kocho
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Re: "Dead" Runke Charger - hints to repair?

While I wait for the 20A fuse to come in the mail, I'm charging now at 4.9A drawn from the wall. This turned out to be the Amps used at the minimum power setting of 500 on the dash, selected through the left/right brake magic sequence setup. So far so good, though I would not be surprised if the 5A fuse I have temporarily in now blows as I'm loading it to its max rating, pretty much...

While the fairing is off and headlight is out, I decided to also try an LED bulb update. There is a separate thread here on this (and how to deal with the potential for warning lights coming on the dash). Once I try that, probably in a week or so, I'll post about it. I don't drive much at night, so my $30 "upgrade" to LED is intended mainly to get me more visible to others (at night and during the day). I do hope to also get some better illumination on the road too, of course. Hard to think it could be worse than it is now ...

PJD
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Re: "Dead" Runke Charger - hints to repair?

While I wait for the 20A fuse to come in the mail...

Can't you just go to an auto parts or hardware store and find one of those 20A fuses? "Radio Shack" stores still carry that stuff too.

Kocho
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Re: "Dead" Runke Charger - hints to repair?
While I wait for the 20A fuse to come in the mail...

Can't you just go to an auto parts or hardware store and find one of those 20A fuses? "Radio Shack" stores still carry that stuff too.

RadioShack is closing in my area. One store closed, the other almost closed too (all is on sale, including the furniture). They had the 5A fuses, but not 20A. And I got the replacement fuse socket there. I didn't think of auto stores until after I ordered online, but a quick web search at advanceauto.com online just now only shows automotive type "blade" fuses, that are different shape than the cylindrical one I need and not 250V rated like the one I am replacing.

PJD
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Re: "Dead" Runke Charger - hints to repair?

I've seen the cylindrical ones on the shelves at Advance Auto or Pep Boys - but yes, it is amazing all the sorts of things that can't be found in stores anymore. Radio Shack used to be exactly that - an electronic parts supply house for hams who in those days built most of their own equipment.

Kocho
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Re: "Dead" Runke Charger - hints to repair?

I'm happy to report that the charger is working fine with the new fuses. By the way, it looks like the slightly larger physical size that I bought 1-1/4" instead of the original 20mm length) turns out is popular in microwaves and readily available on Amazon and many other places. Of course, the new fuse won't fit in the original fuse holder for the 20mm factory fuse - I replaced that fuse box with one from RadioShack, which happens to have the same thread diameter as the original one so it fits in the factory hole, but is beefier and better made.

I probably will not be using the full power mode going forward much - to minimize load on other charger components that might be sub-standard. Plus, at lower power, around 8-10A instead of 15+, I can comfortably use a thinner (and lighter) extension cord that I keep under the seat for opportunity charging while I'm out. The charger itself does not seem to be working too hard even on full power though - the fans are aggressive and keep the heat sink warm (not hot) to the touch.

When putting things together, I added a few drops of silicone adhesive between pairs of capacitors and to immobilize some shaky wires throughout the charger - to prevent vibrations and rubbing. Similar adhesive was already applied from the factory to some similar places but not everywhere it could have been. I also looked for cold soldering points and did not find any (a large chunk of solder fell out as I first opened the charger - it has been rattling inside since I bought it, it could have potentially shorted something so I'm glad I finally took that out).

framuga
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Re: "Dead" Runke Charger - hints to repair?

Excellent work !!!
They could send you pictures of microcontroller and microcontralador card charger?
Where we can see the revision of the hardware?
thanks

R
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Re: "Dead" Runke Charger - hints to repair?

good job! Do you have pictures of the repaired fuses inside the charger?

Kocho
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Re: "Dead" Runke Charger - hints to repair?

This is what the fuse holder looks like - very similar to the original and goes in the same location. Sorry don't have a good picture. I used this kind of fuse holder, rated for 30A. It just screws in from the outside of the Runke housing (on the side of the little box attached to the side of the main charger housing, which is some sort of large filter before the A/C power goes into the charger main board). The fuse itself can be replaced without removing the charger (just unscrew the black plastic cap, take the fuse out, put a new in, screw the cap back on). To replace the fuse holder the little box has to be opened - I don't remember how it was positioned, it might be possible to open it without removing the charger from the bike.

http://comingsoon.radioshack.com/screw-cap-panel-mount-fuse-holder/2700367.html#.VYQPgLXD-MY

fuse holder.jpg

The fuse itself is this:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B007ZTK770?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_detailpage_o03_s00

fuse.jpg

I thought of repositioning the fuse holder with the fuse somewhere else outside of the charger, so that it is accessible without removing the body panels on the front (which requires removing the windscreen and the headlight), but got lazy and did not do it - just left it where it was originally. Probably should have placed it inside of the glove box - close enough to the charger, covered against the elements, yet accessible without tools...

good job! Do you have pictures of the repaired fuses inside the charger?

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