The Laird's team files for VX1 LITHIUM batterie configurations

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hybride
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The Laird's team files for VX1 LITHIUM batterie configurations

In the near future we would like to add some new basic charger/MC files for common Lithium batterie configurations. Hope you will like that. One of the benefits of Lithium batterie is that temperature control is no longer an issue on charging. And with the use of a BMS, a charge cycle can suffice with only voltage control. We are working on some modifications on the ESD charger code for these applications. We want to collect what batteries are being used. I you drive with lithium batterie and you are interested, pls fill the form. Checked results will be added to this overview:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1e6T8QdtwzVNmLv4j3C1z5bqCJMEP5Oydb4KYBQ4UYZg/edit?usp=sharing

Form: https://docs.google.com/forms/d/18J17O5E5ztIijt3bNdY1BRMs4t_cW9RSDuw_bDOr7gI/viewform

I filled it already with my own configurations. Feel free to comment or discuss.

Code changes:
Charge stages will be reduced to CP and CC: CP (Constant Power, max 1500Watt) for power charge. CC (Constant Current) for top-end charging and/or top balancing. Continue charging until full batterie, even when the fuel gauge on dash is full.

The ESD charger code is limited to 65aH max. Above that, the fuel gauge won't work correctly. We have to live with that for now.

Kocho
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Re: The Laird's team files for VX1 LITHIUM batterie ...

How about a low-current ramp-up stage (good for the occasional low SoC battery sotuation) and a CV (constant voltage) at the end of charging?

Screenshot (11).png

And maybe consider this type of charging, once you crack the code for precise current control and temperature monitoring :-)
http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=7&ved=0CEUQFjAGahUKEwj1usakhOnHAhUJaz4KHSZlDvQ&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww...

Charge stages will be reduced to CP and CC: CP (Constant Power, max 1500Watt) for power charge. CC (Constant Current) for top-end charging and/or top balancing.

hybride
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Re: The Laird's team files for VX1 LITHIUM batterie ...

The ESD code has limited possibility's for changes. Rewriting the whole program would be a huge investment in time and money. Inside info and advanced testing tools would be needed. That is not available. The goal of this work is to keep VX1's on the road with Lithium batterie conversion.

CV, constant voltage is not available. It is either power and/or current regulation. De charger follows the voltage of the batterie. A ramp-up stage would imo not very usefull because the max charge current is already limited to about 10A. For Lithium packs this is already way below 1C.

Forgot to mention that this is only for LITHIUM conversions with ESD charger.

Kocho
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Re: The Laird's team files for VX1 LITHIUM batterie ...

Thanks for the explanation! Yes, the max current on the ESD draws from the wall on a 120V mains is less than about 1/3C for the smaller 40Ah Li packs and as little as 1/10C for larger capacity packs. I do not know what is the actual current going through the pack, but I suspect it is similar and slightly less than that, since the pack voltage is near that level too. Combined with low voltage protection from the MC software, that is probably OK in terms of not having the low-current ramp-up phase for normal charging (except in unusually low SoC situations, where folks should try to find ways to limit the initial charging current for a short while, until the SoC rises to a safe level for the max current).

I'm still trying to wrap my mind around the positives and negatives of having or not having a CV phase in our application...

hybride
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Re: The Laird's team files for VX1 LITHIUM batterie ...

A major risk with the ESD charger is that the PIC processor should lock while charging. The voltage will climb to it's maximum and damage batteries when no BMS is used. I wonder if other chargers work much different. In case of voltage control it is also a parameter set by a preset in soft- or firmware. You need to know how that is electronically assigned in the hardware to value the risk. A charger follows the voltage of a batterie, because the batterie resistance is low and the current controlled.

Aircon
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Re: The Laird's team files for VX1 LITHIUM batterie ...

I hope lithiumvectrix will fill in the form for me, because whilst I'd like to help, I don't know the answers. He did my conversion.

JimmyB
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Re: The Laird's team files for VX1 LITHIUM batterie ...

Thank you, Hybride (and all others who are contributing to this effort). I've filled in the form wrt my basic 40aH conversion.

LithiumVectrix
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Re: The Laird's team files for VX1 LITHIUM batterie ...

I want to thank the Laird and his team for the work done on updated firmware that enables the Vectrix to manage Li-Ion cells.
I have been using his firmware for 4 years and it has been a turnkey solution once the batteries are replaced.
I have made country trips where I have run flat, pushed the scooter to a house and had to ask hospitable people if I can have a charge, all without battery damage.
This is my 2nd Vectrix with a combined 72,000 Km between both scooters.
No problems with any of the conversions I have done relating to firmware installed.
The Vectrix is basically a top quality scooter using quality components and fitted with some of the worst battery systems ever released to the public. Both factory NiMH and LiFePO4 versions developed problems. Once the battery is upgraded they are a zippy long range scooter.
Thanks to Sandy as being the only source of Freeware Firmware and a reliable source for fixing your Vectrix battery.
I have filled in the forms covering all the conversions I have done. Type 1 NiMH balancing and later type 2,3 electronic balancing. In 60 90 and 125 AmpHr configurations using Panasonic CGR18650CG Li-CO cells as was used in early Tesla models.
The obvious battery to use in conversions now is the Leaf cells. Higher power density and easier battery management of NMC cells which are used in all commercial electric cars. For those willing to assemble a 18650 pack, Samsung INR18650-29E in 50 AmpHr or larger is another NMC choice.

Hall9000
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Re: The Laird's team files for VX1 LITHIUM batterie ...

I'm making a 2000 cell , of recycled laptop batteries conversion.They are mostly sanyos 2600 mah , now between 2200-2400 mah ( red wrap with blue ring) .I'm interested more on a runke program or the way has gone prensel a thunderstruck 2,5 kw charger.I expect about 14kwh-16 kwh , so i need to make an enormous protection margin due to the fact that they are lappy cells , undervoltage protection 3,05 v , and 3,95-4,05 v end charge voltage.

hybride
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Re: The Laird's team files for VX1 LITHIUM batterie ...

Thank you all for filling the form!

The Laird team members Paul and me are now working on a configurable ESD charger file. 1 file that will be suitable for all Lithium configurations. Charger settings can be set by user. First attempts are successful. :-) This will work only in conjunction with Paul's MAGIC BOX (MB).

What we did is add 3 setup parameters to the Magic box. They can be set in setup mode.
CPV= Constant Power cutoff Voltage, can be set from 140 to 160 volts
CCV= Constant Current cutoff Voltage, can be set from CPV value to 160 volts
CCA= Constant Current Amperes, can be set from 0,5 to 10 Ampere

The value of the parameters will be written to ESD memory. The charger code will read these values and set them as operational values.

To be continued..

JimmyB
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Re: The Laird's team files for VX1 LITHIUM batterie ...

This is great news, Hybride, thank you! I'd better get myself a Magic Box ... :D

Kocho
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Re: The Laird's team files for VX1 LITHIUM batterie ...

That Magic Box is really something! Wish we had it years ago...

As an alternative, I understand that David from www.vectrixsupport.com now has ESD custom charger software for Li conversions as well (I helped him test early versions - until my ESD charger died, unrelated to that - and I think he now has the finished version with some additional features that were not available from the original ESD software).

This is great news, Hybride, thank you! I'd better get myself a Magic Box ... :D

hybride
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Re: The Laird's team files for VX1 LITHIUM batterie ...

"with some additional features"

Any idea which features?

Kocho
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Re: The Laird's team files for VX1 LITHIUM batterie ...

I don't know for sure, but I think those are the standard OEM features that became available with the later non-ESD firmwares (like setting charging current and battery capacity on the bike directly via the left-right brake/throttle "magic" sequences, and maybe more). Maybe David can chime-in or interested folks can contact him.

"with some additional features"

Any idea which features?

X Vectrix
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Re: The Laird's team files for VX1 LITHIUM batterie ...

Yes the ESD version has the features that the original Runke Lithium SW (8010) had. Programmable power, amp hrs (up to 120Ahrs), charge delay. Left display can toggle to show current and voltage. Can be used with or w/o a BMS.

elevatorguy
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Re: The Laird's team files for VX1 LITHIUM batterie ...

Thanks for all the work! I have input my thundersky conversion information on the form.
If I understand correctly, Pauls magic box is the only way to program? I will be unable to make changes with the canbus cable?

hybride
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Re: The Laird's team files for VX1 LITHIUM batterie ...

At this time Pauls box is the only way to use the configurable ESD code.

Team member Fran is busy rewriting the ICM code. Hopefully he can make a setup routine too for the ESD.

The values have to be written over canbus every time the scooter starts.

In the meantime i could configure a ESD file for your batt setup. Send me a PM.

JimmyB
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Re: The Laird's team files for VX1 LITHIUM batterie ...

Thank you all for filling the form!

The Laird team members Paul and me are now working on a configurable ESD charger file. 1 file that will be suitable for all Lithium configurations. Charger settings can be set by user. First attempts are successful. :-) This will work only in conjunction with Paul's MAGIC BOX (MB).

What we did is add 3 setup parameters to the Magic box. They can be set in setup mode.
CPV= Constant Power cutoff Voltage, can be set from 140 to 160 volts
CCV= Constant Current cutoff Voltage, can be set from CPV value to 160 volts
CCA= Constant Current Amperes, can be set from 0,5 to 10 Ampere

The value of the parameters will be written to ESD memory. The charger code will read these values and set them as operational values.

To be continued..

Hi Team, any updates on this? My 'Magic Box' arrived this week and I'm anxious to play with it ... I tried setting the CPV to 140 (to allow for a slower, "kinder" charge) but when I plug the bike in it still shows "CP 145" on the center display. So I'm guessing I need different firmware?

Also I noticed a "CVV" setting (my Box has firmware v1.55) - is this for Constant Voltage? I wasn't aware our chargers could do a CV phase - bonus if they can!

Thanks as always for all your work :)

James

hybride
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Re: The Laird's team files for VX1 LITHIUM batterie ...
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